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Posted

Thoughts please.
Looking at what I have, and where I am headed.
The rack has Auralic Aries G2.1, Auralic Sirius G2.1, PrimaLuna EVO 100 DAC, PrimaLuna EVO 400 preamp, and an Audiolab 6000CDT CD transport.
By the time I sell the DAC and buy either an Auralic Vega G2.1 DAC or the likes of a Mola Mola Tambaqui, and get quality interconnects and power cables, still a fair bit of coin to invest.
Or,
I could sell the lot and buy an Aurender A30

https://aurender.com/a30/

I suppose then I could get a dedicated quality audio rack instead of my home-made one.

Is there any reason why I should pursue either option, or is there a better option?

Amps currently Musical Fidelity M8-700M monoblocks but they’d be upgraded later.
Speakers are Tidal Contriva Diacera SE.
They are definitely staying.

Thanks.

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  • Like 4

Posted
2 hours ago, tripitaka said:

Nice system! Anything wrong with it?

😀🙏

Nothing at all. Sounds wonderful. But there are improvements I could make. Bringing the rest of the hardware up to the quality of the speakers, including cables.

I figure if I start with the DAC, then cables and whatever else.

But, if looking at replacing the DAC, choosing what way to go from here. The Aurender is supposed to be a high end device, and would certainly tidy the room up with the massive reduction of equipment, removing the necessity to replace all the interconnects and expensive power cables too.

Or perhaps there is another way of proceeding that I haven’t considered.

  • Love 1
Posted

I am all for simple and suggest either the Aurender A30 or start the simplification journey with the Auralic Vega 2.1 (streamer /DAC) or maybe Lumin X1/P1

 

It took me a while to realise how many boxes I had with a web of cables (see my About Me). I hope you will take this opportunity to simplify, sit back and enjoy the music...

  • Like 3
Posted

Is room treatment or room correction software something you would consider?

For the latter, and an upgrade to the DAC at the same time, you could consider the Weiss 501 or 502.

Posted

My rule of upgrading is: don't spend any money unless you have identified a specific problem that an upgrade would fix. If you are happy with the sound at the moment, no need to change. If you think you have too much equipment and you want to tidy things up and reduce clutter, then you might have a case for changing. What is your aim? 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Keith_W said:

What is your aim?

The best sound I can afford. Decluttering would be nice but not essential.

Problem is I don't have a benchmark, only what I have here which is the best I have heard.
Take the DAC, for example.
Mola Mola Tambaqui or Merging NADAC are possibilities. Tidal Camira is a bit out of reach unless I lucked onto a used one at a good price - my preferred method of shopping.

I'm learning a fair bit on this journey. Main components will be streamer, DAC, preamp plus whatever I do with the monoblocks in future.
I don't need to rush with the streamer as I have the two Auralic devices.
I do want to explore a better DAC, but again, no rush.
Whether I get a box that does multi functions eg DAC + preamp combined, I don't mind so long as it is as good as separates. But I don't know what is good apart from reading and opinions, hence me asking.

Posted
1 hour ago, option-up said:

Is room treatment or room correction software something you would consider?

Room treatment hits a snag with WAF but I'm working on it.
I have experimented with room correction - calibrated mic + MiniDSP's REW software, and EQ setting in the Sirius. While they helped a lot with the B&W speakers, with the Tidals it sounds best with all EQ off - I have tried measuring again but it's now got me questioning the quality of the Daytek mic I bought.

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Sounding said:

 

Problem is I don't have a benchmark, only what I have here which is the best I have heard.


This needs to be fixed. Hit the Hi-Fi show, or pop into somewhere like Nirvana Sound, CAV etc in Melbourne and get a benchmark - the impossible

to aim for. 
 

Then you can try and get as close as that within your budget.

 

To paraphrase @Keith_W - if you don’t know what you’re trying to achieve, you may as well stand in front for your system throwing pineapples at it while praying to the deity of your choice.

 

7F22F081-0526-4982-A3B2-5E8CF38DABE7.gif
 

 

Edited by TheBlackDisc
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  • Haha 1
Posted
8 hours ago, Sounding said:

Room treatment hits a snag with WAF but I'm working on it.
I have experimented with room correction - calibrated mic + MiniDSP's REW software, and EQ setting in the Sirius. While they helped a lot with the B&W speakers, with the Tidals it sounds best with all EQ off - I have tried measuring again but it's now got me questioning the quality of the Daytek mic I bought.

 

That room that you have is beautiful, I love those hardwood floors. And from what I can see from the reflection on the TV, the view outside looks pretty stunning as well. However, that pretty bare listening room with all those hard surfaces is going to create a lot of reflections that will muddy the sound. "Room treatment" can come in the form of thick rugs and curtains, and choosing furniture that can absorb or diffuse the sound. I don't like the look of those studio foam panels either, at least not in a general purpose living room - so I can understand if your wife doesn't want them. 

 

As for using room correction, there is definitely a learning curve. It took me at least a year before I understood what I was doing, and even now I am still learning better ways to do things. If anything, owning a mic is an important first step because it tells you immediately what is going on, provided you know how to interpret what you are measuring. Until you know how to interpret and act on the results, using DSP / room correction will likely take you backwards in terms of SQ. An obvious "free" way to get better sound is to start reading up on how to use your MiniDSP and putting in better filters. 

Another "free" way to upgrade your sound is to reconsider the position of your subwoofers and how you are using them. You have two subs placed closely together, meaning one would excite the same peaks and nulls in your room as the other. Look around your room and see if there is somewhere you can place your second sub. Are you crossing over your subs to remove low bass frequencies from your main speakers? 

 

Why don't you call on some of us the next time you visit Melbourne? There are quite a few people up here using DSP. I can easily show you the difference by changing a few software settings. 

  • Like 2

Posted

Seeing you already have Auralic Aries and Sirius, the Vega 2.1 just makes sense as it works incredibly well stacked with the others. It was said many times the stack works better than other big brand same price and even more expensive,  but that I think is all about preferences. Furthermore it has a preamp with a great volume control I like a lot 👍

Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Sounding said:

Problem is I don't have a benchmark, only what I have here which is the best I have heard.

But you do!  Your system and your ears.  All you now need is to occasionally listen to other systems (fellow member is best, or Hi-fi show, retailer).

 

And don't fall into the trap of thinking you need an ultimate benchmark..

 

11 hours ago, Sounding said:

Main components will be streamer, DAC, preamp plus whatever I do with the monoblocks in future.
I don't need to rush with the streamer as I have the two Auralic devices.
I do want to explore a better DAC, but again, no rush.

It the combination of streamer and DAC which is important. Getting the best DAC will not work if you neglect the streamer, connection used and quality of cable. Hence my suggestion of going streamer/DAC where the vendor has optimised the combination.

 

I note that you mentioned in the other thread that there was no difference with and without the Sirius.  This is because your DAC is not susceptible to upsampling (as is mine). You could of course change DACs and keep the Sirius, but do you want to keep going down the complexity route?

 

11 hours ago, Sounding said:

Room treatment hits a snag with WAF but I'm working on it.
I have experimented with room correction - calibrated mic + MiniDSP's REW software, and EQ setting in the Sirius. While they helped a lot with the B&W speakers, with the Tidals it sounds best with all EQ off - I have tried measuring again but it's now got me questioning the quality of the Daytek mic I bought.

It is not likely to be the Daytek mic, but more likely not setting up room correction properly in the first place.

 

If manual room correction proves too challenging, then consider Dirac Live on say a NAD M33, another simplification option.  Dirac also has Bass Control to integrate multiple subs and make bass even across the seating positions. About to come out is Active Room Treatment (ART) which takes room correction even further. ART is ideal for people with shared rooms like yours (& mine) where WAF is essential.  Maybe available end of the year or next year?

Edited by Snoopy8
Typo
Posted

Having listened many times to Tidal speakers, you have bought a nightmare in those. They are incredibly revealing of anything that goes before them and the dollars involved can be astronomical to say the least.

good luck in your quest.

Posted
On 14/4/2023 at 11:38 AM, Snoopy8 said:

It the combination of streamer and DAC which is important

.….. my suggestion of going streamer/DAC where the vendor has optimised the combination.

And a good vendor at that.

Strong contender at the moment is a Mola Mola Makua with DAC module. It upsamples, apparently, so I can keep the Aries and sell the Sirius and both PrimaLunas.

And aim for a better streamer one day, perhaps Antipodes K50 or similar.

It seems like a good option. Would be great to hear it.

Posted
12 minutes ago, Sounding said:

And a good vendor at that.

Strong contender at the moment is a Mola Mola Makua with DAC module. It upsamples, apparently, so I can keep the Aries and sell the Sirius and both PrimaLunas.

And aim for a better streamer one day, perhaps Antipodes K50 or similar.

It seems like a good option. Would be great to hear it.

Looks like you are set on the path to upgrading the DAC?

 

If you are getting a DAC which upsamples, then you are wasting money if you get the K50 (or Oladra) with their inbuilt Reclocker. Get a K21 or something else without the Reclocker.

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Posted
59 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

…….then you are wasting money if you get the K50 (or Oladra) with their inbuilt Reclocker. Get a K21 or something else without the Reclocker.

Thank you. I hadn’t researched that far yet.

The thinking is possibly the Mola Mola Makua with DAC, and stick with Aries streamer for now using AES.

In future, when budget repairs and a deal comes up, I can look more closely at the most suitable streamer to replace the Aries - if indeed there is much to gain.

Learning times.

  • Like 1
Posted
4 hours ago, Sounding said:

Thank you. I hadn’t researched that far yet.

The thinking is possibly the Mola Mola Makua with DAC, and stick with Aries streamer for now using AES.

In future, when budget repairs and a deal comes up, I can look more closely at the most suitable streamer to replace the Aries - if indeed there is much to gain.

Learning times.

Friend, if money doesn't matter (and I truly envy you here) then go for whatever takes your fancy!

But as someone who has to think about $$,  I'm still not clear what you are trying to achieve?🙏🙏

Posted

Just observations:

So I’ve just been doing some comparisons with what I have here.

From the Auralic Aries + Sirius, I go AES to the PL DAC then RCA to the PL preamp.

I also go coax to the Yamaha RXA8A AVR, and RCA  to the HT input of the preamp.

I balance the volume on the Yamaha to match a reasonable enjoyable volume, so that I can select the 2 different inputs of the preamp for a side by side comparison.


The AVR is in Pure Direct for this.

The AVR has 3 DAC digital filters, which are obviously still in the equation when it’s in Pure Direct.

Slow roll off is softer on the vocals, a tad woody.

Short latency is perhaps three quarters of the way towards sharp roll off, and sharp roll off is to my hearing absolutely identical to the pre input of the PL DAC. This is also the preferred sound.

I tried heaps of different content and can’t split it.

It is interesting.

 

I have also tried taking the pre out of it by connecting the monoblock XLR’s to the Yamaha AVR.

Same deal, using the PL DAC vs the AVR DAC, cannot split the difference.

 

As for comparing the AVR as a pre compared to the PL, harder to do as XLR needs to be moved, also necessitating shutting down the monoblocks because I don’t want any nasty pop to blow these Accuton drivers. I was turning the monoblocks off for other cable movements as well. Paranoid maybe, but I can’t afford to blow them up.

Posted
On 13/4/2023 at 6:47 PM, Sounding said:

Thoughts please.
Looking at what I have, and where I am headed.
The rack has Auralic Aries G2.1, Auralic Sirius G2.1, PrimaLuna EVO 100 DAC, PrimaLuna EVO 400 preamp, and an Audiolab 6000CDT CD transport.
By the time I sell the DAC and buy either an Auralic Vega G2.1 DAC or the likes of a Mola Mola Tambaqui, and get quality interconnects and power cables, still a fair bit of coin to invest.
Or,
I could sell the lot and buy an Aurender A30

https://aurender.com/a30/

I suppose then I could get a dedicated quality audio rack instead of my home-made one.

Is there any reason why I should pursue either option, or is there a better option?

Amps currently Musical Fidelity M8-700M monoblocks but they’d be upgraded later.
Speakers are Tidal Contriva Diacera SE.
They are definitely staying.

Thanks.

15A83CDA-6B78-4335-8504-D81D5C71A368.thumb.jpeg.78536c6e368fdfdb20e227735403c693.jpeg

 

52BFA78E-1C2A-4C07-8116-DD82CF89BED5.thumb.jpeg.7227eef3cb1d486148b1cbcf609af401.jpeg


713D9696-45A1-44C7-8140-F583B8DF91E6.jpeg.3d2d9e89ca20e984c92e9dd037e94a38.jpeg

 

 

There’s always the Aurender A20 , also Aurender has just debut the AP20 Intergrated Amp (200w) .

Posted

I was also sent a link to the AP20 by two friends today. 
But I would like to stick with monoblocks and if need and budget allows, upgrade them in future years.

 

Some say that for high end, I would be better off with separates. If that is the case I should stick with the Aries streamer for now, and perhaps focus on a DAC or DAC & pre that have synergy.

Or nothing, just enjoy what I have, and focus on cables, power, isolation, room.

 

@tripitaka I don’t think I know what I am trying to achieve either. I don’t know how good what I have is compared to how good it can be. I don’t know how good it can be. I don’t know the difference between precise and analogue sounding.

For example, committing to a DAC/pre combo scares me a bit because if I get it, then discover it’s the “valve sound” I like, I have a WAF problem.

The more I research, the more I find great equipment and also I find conflicting opinion.

So perhaps I should concentrate just on cables for what I have, get some isolation (Gaia Titan likely for speakers, Gaia Oreas for hardware), do what I can get away with in the room, get my sparkie to do the dedicated power run with filter, and wait until I can come to the mainland and demo a heap of stuff to get an idea of what is possible.

Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Sounding said:

I was also sent a link to the AP20 by two friends today. 
But I would like to stick with monoblocks and if need and budget allows, upgrade them in future years.

 

Some say that for high end, I would be better off with separates. If that is the case I should stick with the Aries streamer for now, and perhaps focus on a DAC or DAC & pre that have synergy.

Or nothing, just enjoy what I have, and focus on cables, power, isolation, room.

 

@tripitaka I don’t think I know what I am trying to achieve either. I don’t know how good what I have is compared to how good it can be. I don’t know how good it can be. I don’t know the difference between precise and analogue sounding.

For example, committing to a DAC/pre combo scares me a bit because if I get it, then discover it’s the “valve sound” I like, I have a WAF problem.

The more I research, the more I find great equipment and also I find conflicting opinion.

So perhaps I should concentrate just on cables for what I have, get some isolation (Gaia Titan likely for speakers, Gaia Oreas for hardware), do what I can get away with in the room, get my sparkie to do the dedicated power run with filter, and wait until I can come to the mainland and demo a heap of stuff to get an idea of what is possible.

A very disarming reply, I like you.

 

The thing is, plenty of folk have man-years of diligent listening and research behind them, before they reach anywhere near to the equipment level you already have. 

 

Personally, I wouldn't even bother with cables and isolation. Invest time (not money) to find the signature you like. There's every chance you already have it😄

Edited by tripitaka
  • Like 2
Posted
14 minutes ago, tripitaka said:

. There's every chance you already have it😄

Indeed.

This is what I don’t know.

Your words are encouraging.

I am seeking the best I can afford, but when I don’t know what that is I guess it makes sense to slow down and enjoy.

Perhaps the biggest issue is that I don’t have the opportunity to wander into listening rooms or audiophile invites to hear reference stuff because of where I am.

I do enjoy what I have. So long as I don’t get tempted to start rolling more tubes - got a good set now.

1B3B94CB-1D45-4B4E-AF9D-2F6EDB386570.jpeg

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Sounding said:

Indeed.

This is what I don’t know.

Your words are encouraging.

I am seeking the best I can afford, but when I don’t know what that is I guess it makes sense to slow down and enjoy.

Perhaps the biggest issue is that I don’t have the opportunity to wander into listening rooms or audiophile invites to hear reference stuff because of where I am.

I do enjoy what I have. So long as I don’t get tempted to start rolling more tubes - got a good set now.

1B3B94CB-1D45-4B4E-AF9D-2F6EDB386570.jpeg

 

Well my sole contribution to the Soundbite of Wisdom thread was to suggest measuring whatever you have.

 

All it costs is $100 (for a mic) and the time to learn a program.

 

Measuring my system opened my eyes and made my remedial efforts more targeted. 

 

Hifi is not really about measurement (of course) but it is a tool that can save a great deal of effort and expense in the long run.

 

Edited by tripitaka
  • Like 2
Posted

I wish I could come and see you sometimes , I would bring my Vega with me to see if any improvement with it... but it would cost you your hospitality and some good wine lol. Maybe sometimes after I sort out my moving here. And yes, enjoy what you do have already,  pretty sure it sounds as good as it looks. 👍

  • Thanks 1
Posted

@surfnetb did someone mention my cellar? 😋

I do good coffee too. Sing out…

 

@tripitaka I do have a calibrated mic and the REW software.

I began using it back when I had the B&W 702 speakers, and I made improvements with EQ settings in the Auralic processor.

With these speakers, I did heaps of measurements and tweaks to EQ, dialled settings back based on what my ears were telling me, eventually deciding it sounds best with all EQ off.

Was an interesting exercise.

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