djb Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Comparative evaluation of 4 "Linn Wars" Turtables NOR a serial post from a serial pest I have in my herd 4 British TT s from the early 1980s of which I am begining comparative evaluations. I will post as I review them so this will take 10 days or so with some gaps asI am in Sydney next week for meetings and a wedding ( no not mine). HISTORY The Linn LP 12 was the dominant British TT of the 80s and remains a major contender today. This dominance was not nearly so apparent in the beginning. Ariston or perhaps our own Orpheus Silex began the spring balanced TT phenomenon. Others followed first Linn then a string of others. These included; Pink Triangle now Funk Firm, Strathclyde, and Logic. Linn fought these contenders every way it could. They fought hard. Retailers who distributed any of the above were threatened with no further supply of Linn TT s. Pink Triangle named for the patch gay men had to wear in occupied countries during WW ll was maligned for this link . All of the competitor companies listed above failed. Note I have gathered the above info here and there this is not a meticulously researched history . I am happy to entertain corrections. It is merely to give a context for that which follows. My herd now contains four of these TT s and I will do some comparative listening over 10 days or so and post my conclusions as I go. While I will be as objective as I can the set ups as described in post two will influence the outcome. I will acknowledge this where possible. Example: each TT has a different cart, some TT s have manufacturers arms others do not. Iphone Photos will be posted by the geek later today (I hope). Cheekyboy is calling in next week and I will ask him to take better shots that will go up towards the end.
andyr Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Great idea for a thread David. I look forward to reading the rest of it. Regards, Andy
Telecine Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Looking forward to the comparisons and the eventual and inevitable outcome ; )
andyr Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Looking forward to the ... eventual and inevitable outcome ; ) Don't know what the inevitable outcome will be, John? After all, if you were comparing 4 clapped-out cars, the one you thought went the best wouldn't necessarily be a relevant comparison for the makes represented? Andy 1
Telecine Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Don't know what the inevitable outcome will be, John? After all, if you were comparing 4 clapped-out cars, the one you thought went the best wouldn't necessarily be a relevant comparison for the makes represented? Andy I am going to enjoy this thread ; )
djb Posted November 3, 2013 Author Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) ##2 The turntables Linn LP 12 late Valhalla Trampolin base Akito 2b arm Denon 103 with aluminum head plate bringing weight to 19 grams elevator cart setting 5100 Felt mat Footfall disturbance Walnut plinth My Total Cost $1700 Logic DM 101 Sold as spring TT springs now removed replaced with sheet of ply SMElll arm Grado Reference Master1 cart HOMI Manufacturers rubber mat no footfall disturbance My total Cost!$1300>NB cart rrp=$1200 Logic Tempo manufacturers arm Datum 2 Ortofon Tango LOMC cart their bottom of range mc cart similar rrp to denon 103 Elevator cart setting 27 Thin synthetic mat SMR silicone No foot fall disturbance My total cost $ 390 Strathclyde spring TT very heavy aluminum base plinth Platter level with top plate tightly sprung SME lll arm Audiophile Europa mm/mi cart by Grado No footfall disturbance Components in common Graham slee Elevator> Redwood Muse 3 mm phono> Earle Weston Time Machine SET integrated> Tannoy Turnberry's dual concentric Tannoy super tweeter The prof has a Pink Triangle if he's willing I might assess that too Edited November 3, 2013 by djb 2
djb Posted November 3, 2013 Author Posted November 3, 2013 While I have made this trolls rod for my own back and will willingly accept all the stick I am given I intend my posts here to be seriou no digressions
Gordon Macfarlane Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Don't forget to 'tune dem' all 4/5 turntables to assess which offers the best PRAT to your ears David.
djb Posted November 3, 2013 Author Posted November 3, 2013 Good point Gordon What assessment categories do ppl suggest?
Telecine Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 A couple of suggestions: Performance: - Bass - Midrange - Treble - Musicality vs Accuracy - Upgrade options/availability of parts - Network of service agents - Resale value
andyr Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Don't forget to 'tune dem' all 4/5 turntables to assess which offers the best PRAT to your ears David. Aah, now Gordon ... can you enlighten me as to what is the "follow the tune" method of listening which Linn Forum folk keep harping on about? (I understand this is the same as what you called "tune dem".) But I think that is something different to "PRAT assessment"? Andy
andyr Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 A couple of suggestions: Performance: - Bass - Midrange - Treble - Musicality vs Accuracy - Upgrade options/availability of parts - Network of service agents - Resale value I disagree, John. If djb is trying to tell us which is his favourite-sounding combo - and why - then your last 3 are irrelevant. And to extend musicality ... I would say "which one engages you more - ie. gets your toe tapping"! Regards, Andy
Telecine Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Those last three points are relevant to anyone considering buying one. If parts are unobtainable and no one will service them then they become boat anchors. I agree that we want to know which one is the most engaging but people express that in different ways.
djb Posted November 3, 2013 Author Posted November 3, 2013 Andy The lastb3 of teles requirements/demands are though necessary for the Linn to be automatically victorious I on the other hand will be objective Pchan understands PRAT he will educate us We should not over look Gordon's motives either PRAT, some say being something that only LINNIE'S can discern/aspire to Off to read up on PRAT Will be Solomon before this is over 1
unclemack Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) Love the idea but I want to play Devils advocate... At which point do you attribute differences in the TT and not the arm/cart combination. I can see a TT evaluation being relevant if all three sported the same arm/cart combo but this seems more an evaluation of three analogue setups, rather than the TT's themselves.. hope I don't sound like a wet blanket here as I don't mean to. Cheers M Edited November 3, 2013 by unclemack 2
djb Posted November 3, 2013 Author Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) Uncle You are correct and you and everyone else can dissect my evaluations appropriately Teo of the TT s can be assessed with different arm if we allow for fact the arms are manufacturer original issue Logic tempo and linn. But then neither have the original manufacturers cart choice. If I had a second denon 103 or any 2 identical any 2 tts could be set up identically at 1 time but given I'm not able to change the carts ... it's getting too complicated! Now if a sponsor had 4bidentical carts they could loan. Edited November 3, 2013 by djb
andyr Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Those last three points are relevant to anyone considering buying one. If parts are unobtainable and no one will service them then they become boat anchors. I agree that we want to know which one is the most engaging but people express that in different ways. But the Strathclyde and the Logic are no longer made ... but, sure, you can buy them, used. The only "servicing" I could see necessary to any of them is possibly a new bearing ... or motor? And - as I'm sure you will agree - given the sad lack of "service" from my local Linn dealer, having an "authentic" dealer does not guarantee a good result. As we saw from UM's Luxman, a competent tech stopped that from becoming a 'boat anchor' - and he didn't even have to replace the bearing ... simply clean it. Regards, Andy
andyr Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Pchan understands PRAT he will educate us We should not over look Gordon's motives either PRAT, some say being something that only LINNIE'S can discern/aspire to Mmmm, David ... my take on PRAT is that it is a Naimie term. Linnies talk about "tune dem" or "which one makes it easier to follow the tune". IOW, while a well set-up LP12 can certainly enable you to follow the tune, compared to other TTs (and both Naimies & Linnies agree on this) ... once you add a (Naim) Aro to the deck - you get more PRAT! Regards, Andy
Telecine Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Good points Andy but as you would know the Linn has moved on, the others haven't ; )
djb Posted November 3, 2013 Author Posted November 3, 2013 Did I precipitate Linn war ll by including war in the title? My naivitivity surprises me sometimes Photos to night
unclemack Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 I guess what we all really want is an interesting, informative, and fun to read thread... I reckon we'll have that covered no matter the results... Go for it david...we await with baited breath. Cheers M
Guest Hensa Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Love the idea but I want to play Devils advocate... At which point do you attribute differences in the TT and not the arm/cart combination. I can see a TT evaluation being relevant if all three sported the same arm/cart combo but this seems more an evaluation of three analogue setups, rather than the TT's themselves.. hope I don't sound like a wet blanket here as I don't mean to. Cheers M Must agree with this. I have no idea what will be getting compared - not only different arms and cartridges, even something as simple as the mats are different and one of the turntables has had its sprung suspension replaced with a piece of ply. I look forward to reading the reviews but will have to teat them as individual reviews rather than any sort of useful comparison.
andyr Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Go for it david...we await with baited breath. Cheers M Haha - good one, UM!! Not sure if you just made a Freudian slip or not ... but I do think it's a good idea to "bait" djb! Andy 1
Grumpy Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 This will be interesting for sure. I have an old HiFi+ magazine with a write up about the various tweaks and upgrades for the various Linn TT's somewhere.(not one of the many mags that I've just thrown out)
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