Bel Canto Ref 1000 Mono Block

[Zodiac-12]

Hi. EveryOne.

 

I need some help & suggestion about  Bel canto Ref 1000 Mono Block power amp.

 

Has anyone Listen Or has a demo this Amp before?. Caused I'm Interest to purchased these Amp @ Work one of the Worker put up for Sale on the Notice board ( my work place ) He's asking for $2100 RRP $6000-7000 AU, is that right the Retail Price? Also $2100 is it a reasonable for purchased them now?. Caused I didn't know where are they sell these Amp in Australia . Thanks

 

Also I'm take a look @ Bel Canto Website there is only Model Ref 1000. But i do google search there is a few Ref 1000  ( like Ref 1000 MKii / Ref 1000M) Anyone know Are they difference between them?. Thank You

 

Final Question Is this Good for the Jamo Concert 11? Cheers

Edited November 1, 2013 by hifiorwife

[henry218]

http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/bel_canto_ref1000m_monoblock_power_amplifier/

it seems the ref1000M performs better. what is your current amp? ultimatrly you may need to try it at home to really evaluate.

from JA measurements the ref1000 performs better with higher impedance speakers

[Stump]

I tried the Bel Canto Ref1000 in my system running VAF I-66mk2 and it  sounded great.$2100 is a ok price if local.Last couple went for $2000 on ebay.I know my friend paid $3000 for his couple years ago.There are some Bel Canto REF 1000 MKII on audigon for $3400

Stump

[RockandorRoll]

I always get confused with these. There are differnt chips within the amps that supposedly dramatically impact the sound. ASP and ... something else.

 

The REF MKII had the revised chip. I have a Stereo version of that apparently.

 

Hopefully Shane F chimes in as he has played with a few of these.

 

Great price for the pair, i wouldnt let me Stereo version go for less that $1500. These have a very smooth sound contrary to popular belief. 

[Zodiac-12]

http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/bel_canto_ref1000m_monoblock_power_amplifier/

it seems the ref1000M performs better. what is your current amp? ultimatrly you may need to try it at home to really evaluate.

from JA measurements the ref1000 performs better with higher impedance speakers

 

I tried the Bel Canto Ref1000 in my system running VAF I-66mk2 and it  sounded great.$2100 is a ok price if local.Last couple went for $2000 on ebay.I know my friend paid $3000 for his couple years ago.There are some Bel Canto REF 1000 MKII on audigon for $3400

Stump

 

I always get confused with these. There are differnt chips within the amps that supposedly dramatically impact the sound. ASP and ... something else.

 

The REF MKII had the revised chip. I have a Stereo version of that apparently.

 

Hopefully Shane F chimes in as he has played with a few of these.

 

Great price for the pair, i wouldnt let me Stereo version go for less that $1500. These have a very smooth sound contrary to popular belief. 

I agree with henry218 , I'm gonna ask the guy to have a demo @ my place

For The Price I will make an offer for it May be $1900 -$2000. But if the Amp is in Perfect Condition & Sound Great I'm just Buy it

The Difference between 2 Amp (Ref 1000  compared to Ref 1000M)    look @ 

[henry218]

good, let us know how it goes , there is a significant difference on the input impedance between the 2, make sure your pre is compatible

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Take care using speakers which present a difficult load with this amplifier. ESLs would be a particularly poor choice. Easy loads should be fine.

 

 

[PonyTail]

A 500W into 8Ohm/1000W into 4 Ohm Amplifier weighing between 6 & 8.5kg would probably employ a swichmode power supply rather than mains frequency transformer based ones.

My reasoning for this is that a 1000W amplifier will need a power supply arround 1800W, and a transformer this size weighs more than the whole amplifier.

 

I wonder if there is any significant intermodulation distortion between the power supply switching frequency and the audio output?

[henry218]

my ncore 2x200w @4ohm with single smps weighs around 1.2kg total, with chassis  

[A J]

my ncore 2x200w @4ohm with single smps weighs around 1.2kg total, with chassis

Shouldn't that be 2X400W @4ohm?

[henry218]

ah yes 400w @4ohm, for some reason i thought they were rated @2ohm same as NC1200 (still haven't assemble that yet, but i dont know if it has improvement over NC400). 

[georgehifi]

Our ASON ex club president had a pair of these, they were easily creamed by a pair of early el34 x 2 tubes per channel push pull small monobocks that Elson of Cymer built, and his Halcro's DN68's wiped up the rest. All this was on Wilson Watt 7's . 

 

Cheers George

[georgehifi]

If your still keen on this sort of amp, I just phoned him to see if wanted to sell them, and he already back traded with the WA dealer to a new pair of latest upgrade Nuforce 9SE  Bronze/Black monoblocks which he thought were a bit better, now he will sell these as he's gone off Class D all together for $1200 for the pair and they are mint. He just wants to keep the EL34 mono blocks and the Halcro DM68's.  If your interested PM me and I'll give you his ph no. he's in Sydney.

 

Cheers George

Edited November 5, 2013 by georgehifi

[DoggieHowser]

I started out with a pair of preowned REF1000s in my system as well. You might want to check with the local dealer if you can upgrade it to REF1000M specs at a later date. That was what I did.

There are really only 2 variants. The original REF1000 and the REF1000M. The 1000M was initially badged as MkII which is what mine was labelled. The MkII/M upgrade didn't change the ASP1000 board on the original 1000. It added two things: an input buffer and a power supply board. The input buffer makes it a better match for tube preamps and with the power supply upgrade, there was noticeable improvement in lowering the noise floor and increase in detail and soundstage depth.

The MkII was rebadged as the M after the REF500M was introduced. There seemed to be confusion that the MkII was a newer design and perhaps customers were waiting for a MkII of the REF500M when the 500M had the same input buffer and power supply boards as the REF1000MkII.

A lot of people slag off Class D amps but I really think that in the class they compete, they perform very well. A tube preamp IMHO addresses the leanness of the sound that most complain about. I had no issues driving a 4ohm speaker load with the amp. What really impressed me was their tight control over the bass in my speakers. I'm not saying they can't be bettered. I have relegated the 1000Ms to surround duties now but the replacement amps were a whole different ballpark price wise to provide improvements in all aspects.

Since these amps belong to a mate, you can always ask nicely to borrow them for a home audition. Or ask to hear them at a showroom with the speakers you intend to partner them with. Also gives you a good idea how well they perform vs the amps the speaker dealers are using so you have a better basis of comparison.

[Peta]

A 500W into 8Ohm/1000W into 4 Ohm Amplifier weighing between 6 & 8.5kg would probably employ a swichmode power supply rather than mains frequency transformer based ones.

My reasoning for this is that a 1000W amplifier will need a power supply arround 1800W, and a transformer this size weighs more than the whole amplifier.

 

I wonder if there is any significant intermodulation distortion between the power supply switching frequency and the audio output?

Different story with Class D amps. Small power supply and 1200 watts of mains power for 1000 watts output. Continuous music at 96 dB uses 28 Watts on my BelCantos. Idle uses 26 Watts. That is for bi-amped speakers both channels. Peaks have been around 190W and that was painfully loud

[A J]

A 500W into 8Ohm/1000W into 4 Ohm Amplifier weighing between 6 & 8.5kg would probably employ a swichmode power supply rather than mains frequency transformer based ones.

My reasoning for this is that a 1000W amplifier will need a power supply arround 1800W, and a transformer this size weighs more than the whole amplifier.

I wonder if there is any significant intermodulation distortion between the power supply switching frequency and the audio output?

/Yes

..... and

/No

[Zodiac-12]

Finally I got it for the good price I guest ($1900). He's  ( the Owner ) won't let his Amp out of his house, so I have to come to his place & have a demo there. His system is all Bel Canto (CD1/Pre-Dac3/Mono Block Ref 1000 + B&W 805s ) I just bring my Primare Pre30 over to his place.

 

Oh man the Sound of the Bel canto System so Smooth, very nice imaging & big soundstage compared to my Primare Pre30. The Primare is just better on the Dynamic other than that is can't compare to the Bel canto, The Bel canto drive the B&W 805s easily no problem. So I bought it & took it home then hook it up to my Proac 1SC, you know what  the Sound of the Proac with the Bel Canto are so bright compared to His B&W 805s speaker. But it's alright I can Play around with the IC Cables & Speaker cables.

 

Now is the good news,The Owner offer me to buy his B&W 805s & the rest of his Bel canto gear if I'm Interested, caused he's gonna Changed over to (Audio Research). He's asking for His B&W 805s for $2000 / Bel Canto CD1 for $800 / Dac3 for $700. So what's  your Opinion (Is the Price right?) I'm really  need some advice here, caused I'd like his system Are matching  from what I had a demo @ his place. Thank You

[henry218]

do u listen on axis? try listen off axis or @45 deg, it should reduce the high freq response

[Winter]

Hmmm b&w and bel canto together. Can't be a good mix.

[DoggieHowser]

Hmmm b&w and bel canto together. Can't be a good mix.

That's what Kal from Stereophile reviewed and it was quite a well reviewed combo.

[Zodiac-12]

do u listen on axis? try listen off axis or @45 deg, it should reduce the high freq response

 

 

Hmmm b&w and bel canto together. Can't be a good mix.

 

 

That's what Kal from Stereophile reviewed and it was quite a well reviewed combo.

First - Thanks henry218  for your Advice  I had changed the Speaker cables from Audio Quest 8tc to Mit cable & listen @ 45deg, Hmm the Sound of the Proac 1SC much better now.

 

Second - (B&W and Bel Canto can't be good mix). I thought so, when I just step in the Owner House I saw the B&W 805s, I Guess straight away it's gonna be very bright sound, But it's not & make me feel  Something different from what I thought it was............

 

Third - the Owner had Sold the Speaker for one of the Member @ work. Look like I just buy the Bel Canto CD1 & DAC3 for matching the power amp. Thanks EveryOne for the input & I'm very appreciated.Cheers

[henry218]

im not sure if the dac3 would be a good choice

[georgehifi]

im not sure if the dac3 would be a good choice

 

Same, when I had it here for a couple of days for a listen, it had a distinct lack of bottom end and lower mid drive/fullness, which gave it brighter sound on the side of neutral. And if you read the review on 6 Moons of it and read between the lines, the reviewer hints at this also, without blatantly saying so.

 

Quote "I would have to say that in a lean sounding system, the DAC 2 would take the honors. In a system coated with a golden hue and saddled with a loose and muddy bass register, the DAC 3 would be the hands-down winner. In a system where all is in balance, it'll be down to your sonic bias - the resolute, airy, detailed, fast and dynamic sound of the DAC 3 or a large dollop of the same with a smidgen of warmth thrown in and the fatter bottom end of the DAC 2."

 

Cheers George

Edited November 8, 2013 by georgehifi

[RockandorRoll]

Bel Canto and B&W make very smooth music. Interesting comment about the combination with Proacs though, room does a lot I suppose

$700 for the DAC is pretty good I reckon, I'd do it

[henry218]

audiogd ref5 would be my preference