JeffK Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Not sure I'm in the right forum here. I'm taking some time to try to get my multichannel setup (7,1) right for my music DVD's and Blurays? I've adjusted the relative speaker volumes using the white noise test in my Cambridge Audio 640AVR receiver making them relatively the same perceived volume from the normal sitting position. My questions for forum members are, Do members find their music (not movie) DVD's/BD's give a too loud (or too soft) volume through the centre speaker? Do members find there is too much or too little music content (as opposed to audience noise, applause and the like) in the surround speakers? I realise that the answers depend on the source material; I'm just trying to get a feel for members experience. Thanks, Jeff
Guest Peter the Greek Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 I've never experienced any of this....its "just right" in this house. Perhaps get yourself an SPL metre, or even an SPL metre APP if you have an iphone. That'll get you reasonably close
betty boop Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Not sure I'm in the right forum here. I'm taking some time to try to get my multichannel setup (7,1) right for my music DVD's and Blurays? I've adjusted the relative speaker volumes using the white noise test in my Cambridge Audio 640AVR receiver making them relatively the same perceived volume from the normal sitting position. My questions for forum members are, Do members find their music (not movie) DVD's/BD's give a too loud (or too soft) volume through the centre speaker? Do members find there is too much or too little music content (as opposed to audience noise, applause and the like) in the surround speakers? I realise that the answers depend on the source material; I'm just trying to get a feel for members experience. Thanks, Jeff not something experienced jeff. but suggest as well if adjusting levels to use an sol meter. get a decent one, they don't cost much and essential in my opinion if setting up using the inbuilt test tones http://www.deephzaudio.com/SPL%20Meter%20product%20page.html deephz, jay car used to sell the decent radio shack meter shown above
JeffK Posted October 31, 2013 Author Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) Thanks guys, based on that advice I downloaded a free "sound level meter" app for my Android phone. While this method could never be described as accurate it did enable me to make a rough comparison of volumes of the channels to my partial satisfaction. I've proceeded further by doing some internet research into Dolby Digital, Dolby Surround and Pro Logic IIx. I've compared five test discs under as close to identical conditions as I can quickly achieve to work out to what extent differences in channel balance is due to the source material and have concluded that indeed the source material is a major factor in the channel balance. 1) Bluray Phil Collins Live at Montreux 2004, package says Dolby Digital, audio setup chosen Dolby Digital 5.1 - lots of sound comes through surround channels, lots from the centre channel, next to no stereo effect. 2) Music DVD Jamie Cullum The Pursuit, package says nothing, audio setup chosen Dolby Digital 5.1 - lots of sound comes through surround channels, less from the centre channel than 1 above, low stereo effect perhaps understandable as the music is dominated by Cullums piano playing and voice. 3) Music DVD Cindi Lauper At Last, package says Dolby Digital, audio setup chosen Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround - less sound comes through surround channels, similar from the centre channel to 2 above, moderate stereo effect. 4) Music DVD Allison Krauss and Union Station Live, package says Dolby Digital Surround, audio setup chosen Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround - less sound comes through surround channels mainly audience noise/applause, next to nothing from the centre channel to 2 above, excellent stereo effect - the Dobro is on the left, the guitar and banjo on the right, and Krauss' voice and violin, the bass and drums are from the phantom centre - by far the best sound balance for music. 5) Movie Bluray Avatar package says Dolby Digital, audio setup chosen Dolby Digital 5.1 - sound through all channels, very good stereo and surround effect. I can't seem to get by AVR to work with respect to the ProLogic IIx adjustment - Centre Width to work to spread the centre channel audio to the front speakers thus obtaining a phantom centre. FWIW, Jeff Edited October 31, 2013 by JeffK
Newman Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 I can't seem to get by AVR to work with respect to the ProLogic IIx adjustment - Centre Width to work to spread the centre channel audio to the front speakers thus obtaining a phantom centre. Hi Jeff, can't you just set the AVR to No Centre Speaker? Then it redistributes C to FL and FR.
betty boop Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 hi jeff, while I thought we were talking about setting levels in the avr, which is what the spl is needed for, the relative sound coming from each channel is most definitely going to totally depend on the source material for a 5.1 mix. coming down to specific decision the mixing engineer has made as to the surround mix, steering etc. in movies for instance the bulk and I mean 90% of the sound comes from centre channel, the L & R mains really just support the front stage with effects and the like. to the point with most movies you could actually disconnect your L & R mains and hardly notice. something many of us whom run combined 2ch and ht systems and if ever forget to engage the ht bypass often dont even realise that may be missing out on the L&R program. If into music there are some discs with more info from the L&R mains and also in movies quite a few you will find that the effects can actually be pretty strong in the L&R mains at times even if for bulk of the time their use is minimal. Its one of the reasons I for one like to run full range mains...is floorstanders integrated with a sub that I also use for music...covers both bases I wouldnt worry too much if have setup correctly the relative levels. unless ofcourse you want specifically more info from your mains which is a choice you would make. keep in mind with most discs you do also get a 2.0 mix included if thats what you want PLIIx + C post processing I myself run over a thx decode for 2ch TV for instance and helps recreate a 7.1 surround field to add a bit more surround ambience which is probably more representative of the original surround mix. I would be carefull with using the width function of the centre as it can artificially bloat the centre image and also muck up the surround steering across centre stage with sound filed moving across the front and placement of sounds across the stage
JeffK Posted October 31, 2013 Author Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) Yes Newman and Al - I appreciate the further advice. Yes I think for music I will turn of the centre and rely on the redistribution of the signal to the L&R channels. I had a listen to my Eagles Bluray (DTS 5.1) and it also has a pretty good stereo effect Although Joe Walsh's guitar appears to be coming from the left in the first track even though he is standing centre right. The other guitarist who is standing far right is clearly coming through the right speaker on the first few tracks. The surround also sounds OK with the audience noise and the backing musicians heard but the featured musician standing front centre is not loud if there at all. Apart from my abysmal room layout and subsequent speaker placement I am now a lot further advanced. Thanks for you help. It is good to hear others experience. Edited October 31, 2013 by JeffK
JeffK Posted November 1, 2013 Author Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) Leonard Cohen DVD On the Road and Billy Joel Live at Shea Stadium this morning - both - certainly the former - appear to have a mix to my taste At the end of the LC amongst the clapping there is a couple of screams from the audience that appear to come from the rear channels only. What wonderful songwriters (poets?) and performers they both are. Edited November 1, 2013 by JeffK
Newman Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 I think the ultimate sound does require a centre speaker. But it has to be a good speaker. It has to be set up properly. And the mix has to use the centre channel properly. 1
betty boop Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 I think the ultimate sound does require a centre speaker. But it has to be a good speaker. It has to be set up properly. And the mix has to use the centre channel properly. I agree in a ht/av system it literally should be the best centre can afford. as most important speaker given the volume of program vocals etc delivered through there and need essential to setup well
JeffK Posted November 1, 2013 Author Posted November 1, 2013 My centre is a Dynaudio 122C. Part of this testing I'm doing is deciding whether to keep it and use it with my Dynaudio Audience 62's or toss it and use another setup cobbled together from the hifi shop full of gear I've spent too much money on (eg Monitor Audio or Usher).
betty boop Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 My centre is a Dynaudio 122C. Part of this testing I'm doing is deciding whether to keep it and use it with my Dynaudio Audience 62's or toss it and use another setup cobbled together from the hifi shop full of gear I've spent too much money on (eg Monitor Audio or Usher). swapping to another brand may not bring that much gain, just a side ways step and the loss of buying selling. maybe worth considering moving up the dyn range if sound character appeals. dyn make some awesome speakers and am sure their upper range centres prob bring benefits. maybe worth borrowing from the shop to try in the system
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