Marantz Cinema 50 Feedback

[S1000XR]

Hi All,

 

I just replaced my NAD T758v3i with a Marantz Cinema 50. All I can say is wow...

 

The NAD had replaced my mid tier Onkyo and I found it was so much better for 2 channel listening and sound placement in surround. My only gripe with the NAD performance wise was I really had to crank the volume to get my 6 Ohm 86db Elac speakers to really wake up. 

 

The new Marantz drives the same speakers with ease and the bass presence, especially at lower listening volumes, is so much fuller. I am really surprised as on paper they are very similar, power wise. 

 

That Marantz sound is also fully present. Its just so warm and easy to listen to. The NAD was very clean but I have to say compared to the Marantz it now sounds  a bit dry and clinical. I honestly didnt know what I was missing and I find that really surprising with NAD's pedigree.

 

The dynamic headroom on surround content is also so much better on the Marantz. Explosions and gunshots have real weight to the point of me jumping in my seat during movies I have watched many times. The NAD is excellent also for placement but polite is how I would describe it aginst the Marantz. 

 

I even dragged the rest of the family in for an opinion as I just was puzzled at there being such a performance difference and didnt want my buyer bias influencing my opinion to justify the purchase but all agreed the Marantz simply sounds better and I am getting this at much lower volume levels than on the NAD. 

 

I realise this sounds quite gushy but its just not that often you get such a performance difference these days when comparing such similar products. 

 

I hope this helps anyone else considering an upgrade. 

 

Also I want to put in a good word for Scott from CHT Solutions. He was bang on with his advice and gave me a great deal. No affiliation, just a happy customer. 

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

Great to hear, did you run Dirac on the Nad? Have you room corrected the Marantz at all?

[S1000XR]

1 minute ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

Great to hear, did you run Dirac on the Nad? Have you room corrected the Marantz at all?

Hi Whipped,

 

Yes i ran Dirac on the NAD. I used the NAD house curve initially but took a fresh set of measurements and used the Dirac Auto Target Curve when that functionality hit last year. The Auto curve was pretty impressive. 
 

i have not run Audyssey yet as i have heard generally average feedback and may wait on the Dirac upgrade in March and not bother with Audyssey at all. 
 

I did lots of back to back listening on the NAD with Dirac on and off and never got the bass performance i am getting out of the Marantz with identical speaker placements.

[blybo]

Great to hear. I have already pulled the trigger on a complete 7.2.4 speaker package including the Cinema 50. I was going to go the 40 but was talked out of it as I'll probably be using an Elektra power amp for the non atmos channels.

 

I hope the speakers may be ready towards the end of next week and I'll get delivery quite soon

[Snoopy8]

Thank you @S1000XR.  

 

I suspect that the additional power of the Cinema 50 helped.  The Cinema 50 is rated at 110W 2 CH, and using the Marantz 70% guarantee, would have delivered at least 77W per channel when used multi channel . The NAD T758V3i delivers 60W multi channel.  Did you ensure that the loudness was about the same when doing the comparison?

 

Curious to know what speaker configuration you have and number of subs?

[S1000XR]

3 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Thank you @S1000XR.  

 

I suspect that the additional power of the Cinema 50 helped.  The Cinema 50 is rated at 110W 2 CH, and using the Marantz 70% guarantee, would have delivered at least 77W per channel when used multi channel . The NAD T758V3i delivers 60W multi channel.  Did you ensure that the loudness was about the same when doing the comparison?

 

Curious to know what speaker configuration you have and number of subs?

Hi Snoop,

 

Yes the NAD is 60w all channels driven but as you would know the NAD is also rated at 110w 2 channels driven, so it was the stereo performance that surprised the most. 
 

I didn’t have the opportunity to A/B the NAD and Marantz directly unfortunately as i traded in but the Marantz definitely drives my speakers more easily than the NAD. Thats the best description i can provide as a layman. Maybe they are just louder at the same volume? 
 

The bass and midrange seems to be the biggest difference. 
 

The NAD is still a good receiver, dont get me wrong but i was most worried about losing 2 channel performance when going to the more mainstream Marantz and it ended up sounding the opposite for my tastes. 
 

I am running 5.1.2 but will be adding a second sub now i have the capability to adjust them independently. 
 

No doubt the 2 unused channels may have helped the C50 with the dynamics compared to the T758 which had only 7 channels available.

[Snoopy8]

There is more to it than power for stereo use. It is likely that the Marantz has a better DAC and better analogue circuitry than the NAD. And you are hearing, and prefer, the warmer Marantz sound.  

 

I previously owned a T758V3, replaced by an Arcam AVR 550. The Arcam was certainly better than the NAD, but you would expect so given the price difference.  Not intending to change now, but the Marantz Cinema series will be on the shortlist when the time comes.

 

Hence your feedback has been useful.  

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

2 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

the Marantz Cinema series will be on the shortlist when the time comes.

 

Same here Snoop, the NAD has given me a nice taste of Dirac in surround and don't get me wrong partnered with the Elektra its enjoyable but I think the Marantz and Dirac match will be where I land long term.

[S1000XR]

21 minutes ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

Same here Snoop, the NAD has given me a nice taste of Dirac in surround and don't get me wrong partnered with the Elektra its enjoyable but I think the Marantz and Dirac match will be where I land long term.

I am delighted with the Marantz. Its so rare you change a major component and it exceeds your expectations. 2.1 HDMI functionality and Dirac update is just the cherry on top. 

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

When you nail the Dirac curve to suit your room as you know type sound goes to another level, so you have a lot more enjoyment to come too once you get that right.

[S1000XR]

26 minutes ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

When you nail the Dirac curve to suit your room as you know type sound goes to another level, so you have a lot more enjoyment to come too once you get that right.

Dirac is brilliant no doubt. I paid the extra $99 for the full licence on the NAD and it was well worth it. It’s going to cost significantly more to get there with the Marantz unfortunately.  US $249 for Dirac Lite and then $99 for full range. 

[hopefullguy]

might be worth paying $30 for the audyssey editor ap. if you like the sound now around $600 Aust for dirac? could be better used on a good 2nd sub.

 

anyway how are you setting the sub, tape measure and meter?

[S1000XR]

1 hour ago, hopefullguy said:

might be worth paying $30 for the audyssey editor ap. if you like the sound now around $600 Aust for dirac? could be better used on a good 2nd sub.

 

anyway how are you setting the sub, tape measure and meter?

Hi Hopeful,

 

I am tempted to try the Audyssey setup and see how it goes. The latest version in the C60 is supposed to be decent if setup properly. The biggest issues seem to be leaning out the midrange with the house curve and setting the sub level way to low, but as you say these can be remedied with the app and settings. I agree its a ridiculous amount of money for Dirac considering the cost of the C60 against the RZ50, which has Dirac at no cost.
 

Yes i did a quick level and distance setup with a meter and  tape measure. Crossovers currently set to 80hz at this stage. 

[hopefullguy]

seems avrs have discovered "add ons" such as the dirac system and which do you get, the bass version is more again. look at audyssey, the $30 app SHOULD be included, hell $30? when buying a mid range x3800 avr at $3000. thats a scam. not to mention if you get the $300 P.C. audyssey EQ you need to buy a different audyssey mic to use it !!!

 

oh dirac are not clean in this, if you really think you can use the provided puck mic to get dirac to perform at its best no way, go buy a UMIK-1.

 

so its all a bit of a con a.t.m. and i cant see it changing.. we cant go back now, thanks covid.

 

anyway its good to hear some feedback from an actual user over the "paid" reviews. lets see what Yamaha do next, usually the biggest lagger in avr, my thinking is nothing as they rely on their name more than pack leading features. yet i will say my yammy rxa3070 does surprise me more than my Denon's ever did, except in the area of bass management.

[Snoopy8]

17 minutes ago, hopefullguy said:

oh dirac are not clean in this, if you really think you can use the provided puck mic to get dirac to perform at its best no way, go buy a UMIK-1.

Don't get me started again on pucks.  Even Arcam which is a premium brand uses them. . 

 

Only Anthem are providing a calibrated microphone, and can be used only with their "family"  products.  

 

20 minutes ago, hopefullguy said:

seems avrs have discovered "add ons" such as the dirac system and which do you get, the bass version is more again. look at audyssey, the $30 app SHOULD be included, hell $30? when buying a mid range x3800 avr at $3000. thats a scam. not to mention if you get the $300 P.C. audyssey EQ you need to buy a different audyssey mic to use it !!!

The average consumer (and we are not average!) buying the main stream products, will likely not care about the add ons.  

 

Dirac is an interesting case study of add-ons:

- Onkyo has full licence for higher models and none for low end

- NAD has limited licence, add-on for full licence

- Marantz has no licence,  add-on for full licence, Bass Control (next year).

- Arcam has full licence, add-on for Bass Control

- JBL has full licence and Bass Control

- Storm has full licence,  Bass Control and Active Room Correction

 

This is a tiered software licence model. The above list is in order of increasing costs and arguably better capability. 

 

Not everyone cares about room correction software and but for those who do, will likely pay for the add-ons.

[blybo]

12 hours ago, S1000XR said:

Dirac is brilliant no doubt. I paid the extra $99 for the full licence on the NAD and it was well worth it. It’s going to cost significantly more to get there with the Marantz unfortunately.  US $249 for Dirac Lite and then $99 for full range. 

Is the upgrade ready yet? I'm happy to pay as I really want to see what it's capable of and I'd like to have a crack at it as soon as my package arrives. I'll be ordering a umik in the coming days just so I'm ready to jump as soon as possible.

[S1000XR]

1 minute ago, blybo said:

Is the upgrade ready yet? I'm happy to pay as I really want to see what it's capable of and I'd like to have a crack at it as soon as my package arrives. I'll be ordering a umik in the coming days just so I'm ready to jump as soon as possible.

 

Marantz firmware update including Dirac is due this month. Not sure a specific date has been given. 
 

Agreed Snoop that room correction is almost never completed by the general consumer. Lets face it, dedicated receivers with conventional speaker setups are now a niche product. Your average big screen TV purchaser is buying the matching soundbar these days. The basic auto eq in these products is sufficient for most consumers as it takes almost no effort and can be running in 10 minutes.  
 

i am not rubbishing these products either. I have a Samsung 950 soundbar and surrounds setup in our living room and the performance to cost ratio is ridiculous. 
 

whilst you still cannot beat the performance of a dedicated receiver with a suitable speaker set, most consumers are happy with 50% of the way there. 
 

The licence model is here to stay i am afraid. Just be thankful Dirac is still a one off fee and not a monthly subscription, YET !!

[S1000XR]

I think a hybrid system with auto EQ is the future of home cinema. Dedicated LCR with wireless surrounds and heights. 
 

Sony is already getting there with their new ES line of receivers. I was filthy they wont be available in Australia as their ES3000 or 5000 may have swayed me from the Marantz although I doubt the music performance would compare… 

 

With microphones built into the surrounds and receiver it will be able to map the space pretty effectively for spatial sound.

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

1 hour ago, S1000XR said:

 

The licence model is here to stay i am afraid. Just be thankful Dirac is still a one off fee and not a monthly subscription, YET !!

Was thinking the same thing, agree its just a matter of time I think.

No doubt the "feature add on" business model is the future, if you dont want it dont pay it's pretty simple. For example just heard that Mercedes made $1b in the past 12 months with "unlockable" feature upgrades in thier vehicles, and they plan that to double in the next year. That wasn't even a market 10 years ago.

[S1000XR]

6 minutes ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

Was thinking the same thing, agree its just a matter of time I think.

No doubt the "feature add on" business model is the future, if you dont want it dont pay it's pretty simple. For example just heard that Mercedes made $1b in the past 12 months with "unlockable" feature upgrades in thier vehicles, and they plan that to double in the next year. That wasn't even a market 10 years ago.

I could accept the practice if it meant reduced purchase prices on the products themselves but so far it seems they develop/engineer all the possible functionality into the product, charge full price to cover their R&D costs and to meet their profit margins, then pull features out of the ‘standard’ feature set and put them behind a paywall. Its extra revenue and gouging, pure and simple.

Edited March 2 by S1000XR

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

Yeh must admit in the case of Dirac Full license given my purchase is with Dirac I was pleasantly surprised when I purchased the 758v3i that the full license I purchased for the C658 could be used across both devices.

 

I wonder if/when I purchase a Marantz Cinema 50 whether my same full license can be used? Haven't googled it yet.

[S1000XR]

11 minutes ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

Yeh must admit in the case of Dirac Full license given my purchase is with Dirac I was pleasantly surprised when I purchased the 758v3i that the full license I purchased for the C658 could be used across both devices.

 

I wonder if/when I purchase a Marantz Cinema 50 whether my same full license can be used? Haven't googled it yet.

I am confused as hell by the Dirac licensing model.
 

I purchased the full license for the NAD T758v3i but does that licence stay with the device? The new owner cannot use it as my login is required to access the license. 
 

I would love to hear the full license is available across any Dirac enabled device i own and could be used for the Marantz after purchasing Dirac Lite? 

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

27 minutes ago, S1000XR said:

 

I would love to hear the full license is available across any Dirac enabled device i own and could be used for the Marantz after purchasing Dirac Lite? 

I'm figuring this should be true.

[S1000XR]

1 minute ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

I'm figuring this should be true.

Lets hope so. That at least keeps the cost down slightly. 
 

Thanks for the information.

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

Just now, S1000XR said:

Lets hope so. That at least keeps the cost down slightly. 
 

Thanks for the information.

But I could be wrong, every device has a different price on the Dirac site...........

 

https://www.dirac.com/online-store/