georgehifi Posted October 25, 2022 Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) Wow, didn't know it got to this state for some streamers trying to get streamed music to sound good. (Typical though, it comes from the same place that charges $250 for a 30c "directional" mains fuse) https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ethernet-switch-for-audiophiles And then I found this it's going to cost you around $6k!!!!!! usd for a network switch for your streamer (wonder what they charge for a mains fuse) https://www.stereophile.com/content/nordost-qnet-network-switch-qsource-linear-power-supply Cheers George Edited October 25, 2022 by georgehifi 2 5
Volunteer El Tel Posted October 25, 2022 Volunteer Posted October 25, 2022 28 minutes ago, georgehifi said: Wow, didn't know it got to this state for some streamers trying to get streamed music to sound good. (Typical though, it comes from the same place that charges $250 for a 30c "directional" mains fuse) https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ethernet-switch-for-audiophiles And then I found this it's going to cost you around $6k!!!!!! usd for a network switch for your streamer (wonder what they charge for a mains fuse) https://www.stereophile.com/content/nordost-qnet-network-switch-qsource-linear-power-supply Cheers George Reading the rubbish in the nordost review has given me an incurable STI. Transmitting "symbols"? Purlease. Still, the crew who like uncertainty rather than answers will doubtless start saving their pennies. 2
2Brix Posted October 25, 2022 Posted October 25, 2022 love it, thread title of 2022 (so far) ...dons flameproof suit 4
Volunteer El Tel Posted October 25, 2022 Volunteer Posted October 25, 2022 Just now, 2Brix said: love it, thread title of 2022 (so far) ...dons flameproof suit I glimpsed at my screen and momentarily thought it said "isolates audiophiles from car crash" - that would be impressive, but no more fanciful than the usual claims I suppose. 1 2
Tweaky Posted October 25, 2022 Posted October 25, 2022 I've always wondered why those that are that concerned about ultimate sound quality even consider streaming [And a product like above], if just because there is just so much in the chain before it gets to your speakers, let alone your ears. Even the convenience of streaming, and having the equipment that allows me to do it, has never enticed me apart from a brief try of Spotify. It gave me a feeling that streaming actually undervalue what I was listening to, and music didn't really matter....strange. No other means of music playback has made me feel like that, not even Radio. 3 2
Wimbo Posted October 25, 2022 Posted October 25, 2022 I don't mind streaming. Great for background or party music. Although I don't party anymore
georgehifi Posted October 25, 2022 Author Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Tweaky said: Even the convenience of streaming Yes I have streaming as an all day music filler in the house on the main system using the same MSB discrete R2R dac, but when I get serious and sit down in the "spot" with a good red, on goes the CD transport, and the streaming takes a back seat. Cheers George Edited October 25, 2022 by georgehifi 2
georgehifi Posted October 25, 2022 Author Posted October 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Wimbo said: I don't mind streaming. Great for background or party music. Although I don't party anymore Ditto Cheers George
maximus Posted October 25, 2022 Posted October 25, 2022 @TweakyYour'e using spotify........say no more. Get yourself a Sublime QObuz account...a decent streamer ....say Lumin T2, run it via ROON DSD/PCM 384, play around with sampling rates , volume leveling etc..then smell the roses, I can assure you it's far from background music and not silly expensive as well. @georgehifi If streaming is average, why do well heeled SNA'ers use them in seriously expensive systems....not being cheeky, just more inquisitive. Frank. 7
georgehifi Posted October 25, 2022 Author Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 55 minutes ago, maximus said: If streaming is average, why do well heeled SNA'ers use them in seriously expensive systems....not being cheeky, just more inquisitive. Maybe they've done what quite a few of my "well heeled" (that used to be audiophiles once upon a time) friends have done, and sold off all their 30+ years of CD/vinyl collection to go streaming then there's no coming back from that. Even their amp/speakers have been down sized in the end compared to what they had, with CD/vinyl. 1 hour ago, muriwai said: No burnt cds I hope George Only the impossible to find cheap enough 1st release uncompressed ones borrowed from friends. Retail stamped v burnt gold v burnt aluminium Cheers George Edited October 25, 2022 by georgehifi
Godot Posted October 25, 2022 Posted October 25, 2022 I stream a lot. I have spent time and $ to make my system basically source neutral. So source just depends on mood really. I love my records. I love my cds and sacds. I love sitting in a chair streaming. I thank streaming for introducing me to so much more music than I would ever have known about otherwise. If I really like an artist/group, I buy a physical copy, I would love to buy more via Bandcamp but international shipping costs for vinyl are extortionate. But yeah, $6000 buys a lot of Qobuz! 4
georgehifi Posted October 25, 2022 Author Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Godot said: I thank streaming for introducing me to so much more music than I would ever have known about otherwise. If I really like an artist/group, I buy a physical copy Exactly what I do. Just got these two 1st release uncompressed Joe Walsh Classics yesterday, had them on vinyl also. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/325339952433?hash=item4bbfc5b531:g:OPQAAOSwdb5jHoIt&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA0KUwHHmnPSA4weVoX0E9X1otRPxZyjMsuPPdnzQvjtYzmiRDo8OimA0VAAx%2BV7BVvB3Wzzd3N3fRH32BRK1w7ADzKeie6b4kikvZIFLjUVEBJ%2F7bcmtW52UgFRM%2FwbzYhEGXTwReKQs4AQtu7%2BJELmFyUghdfc8QVtkXmTF6mrkpoCOanCgM1Z%2BADEpDJPRVRL%2FhE8EaVh7fBAdnsYuyPBYlkZFbFeU3X5xjKPGQwUI3PdQFkcFbfUvc9JQ9VQG0CxnGP09XWGnOzCUXj2PxpXw%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7q-8-KBYQ Cheers George Edited October 25, 2022 by georgehifi 1
Addicted to music Posted October 25, 2022 Posted October 25, 2022 There are no physical switches in my house, it’s all WIFI. Soon I’ll have wireless power to do away with the power cord. 2
georgehifi Posted October 25, 2022 Author Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Addicted to music said: Soon I’ll have wireless power to do away with the power cord. Nice, kinda like insanely more powerful mobile phone proximity chargers, could zap any cancers with that also and make you glow at the same time Cheers George Edited October 25, 2022 by georgehifi 2
Tweaky Posted October 25, 2022 Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, maximus said: @TweakyYour'e using spotify........say no more. Get yourself a Sublime QObuz account...a decent streamer ....say Lumin T2, run it via ROON DSD/PCM 384, play around with sampling rates , volume leveling etc..then smell the roses, I can assure you it's far from background music and not silly expensive as well. @georgehifi If streaming is average, why do well heeled SNA'ers use them in seriously expensive systems....not being cheeky, just more inquisitive. Frank. It wasn't just the poor quality of bog standard Spotify that put me off streaming, I could easily throw money at the problem and get the gear you mention, or even higher level gear for that matter, change streaming services and get pretty good sound from it. The quality of sound wasn't the deciding factor that has put me off streaming, it was a strange disconnection from the music I was listening to that I have never felt before, it's like everything has become elevator music, and consequently little enjoyment in hearing it. I've tried to work out why I feel like this, and the only conclusion is that maybe I'm too wedded to the ritual of music playback via other means, and need that ritual to be emotionally receptive to music. I suppose the best way I can describe how I feel about streaming is, it's sort of like if things come too easily to you , you can tend to not value them as much. As for the often made statement of getting to hear a lot of music that you wouldn't have otherwise because of streaming, yes that is true, but a lot has been stuff that I could of happily have live without hearing as well, and have dismissed it quickly and gone to listen to something else. And there, in a nutshell, sort of explains my problem with streaming. I've become dismissive of so much music because it can be just thrown at you. Edited October 25, 2022 by Tweaky 9
georgehifi Posted October 25, 2022 Author Posted October 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Tweaky said: it was a strange disconnection from the music I was listening to that I have never felt before, it's like everything has become elevator music, and consequently little enjoyment in hearing it. Kinda takes the "audiophile" out of you. Cheers George 2
Assisi Posted October 26, 2022 Posted October 26, 2022 15 hours ago, Tweaky said: It wasn't just the poor quality of bog standard Spotify that put me off streaming, I could easily throw money at the problem and get the gear you mention, or even higher level gear for that matter, change streaming services and get pretty good sound from it. The quality of sound wasn't the deciding factor that has put me off streaming, it was a strange disconnection from the music I was listening to that I have never felt before, it's like everything has become elevator music, and consequently little enjoyment in hearing it. I've tried to work out why I feel like this, and the only conclusion is that maybe I'm too wedded to the ritual of music playback via other means, and need that ritual to be emotionally receptive to music. I suppose the best way I can describe how I feel about streaming is, it's sort of like if things come too easily to you , you can tend to not value them as much. As for the often made statement of getting to hear a lot of music that you wouldn't have otherwise because of streaming, yes that is true, but a lot has been stuff that I could of happily have live without hearing as well, and have dismissed it quickly and gone to listen to something else. And there, in a nutshell, sort of explains my problem with streaming. I've become dismissive of so much music because it can be just thrown at you. The answer is very simple. There may be a simplicity with streaming playback that may not suit you. There can be a number of things to be done to get streaming right. I understand that the ritual of other playback strategies can be a pleasing human experience. With streaming the listening outcome with a well implemented digital front end can achieve a very serious satisfying result. It is definitely so in my situation. The implementation can include the utilisation of quality network components that can cost much more than is mentioned in the title of this thread. The quality of the streaming playback listening experience can be very very serious. As well, you can discover, explore and enjoy recordings that you will never easily encounter any other way. It is all about your own discrimination and pursuing specifically what interests you in terms of music. It is all about the experience. John 4
TerryO Posted October 26, 2022 Posted October 26, 2022 (edited) Sorry gentlemen, for those of you who obviously have never actually heard a truly well set up high end streaming front end supplying zero’s and ones to a equally impressive DAC and believe it can’t possibly sound any good then believe what you want. But just because you have never heard it doesn’t mean anything other than you don’t really know what you are missing out on. The proof is, as with all things important in this listening to music hobby of ours, in the hearing. Once again, I’ll invite any one who wants to hear or doubts how very good a streamed front end, including one of those dastardly expensive Audiophile switch’s, can make a pretty good hifi system ultimately sound, to contact me for a listening session. … Yes that was a rather long cumbersome sentence, if I say so myself. The only thing I ask in return is you eat humble pie afterwards and admit what you hear in writing here on this forum. As I have said, I have made such invitations previously when similar comments have been made, but not once has one of the vocal minority taken up the opportunity to broaden their horizons, even when some of the most vocal live less than an hours drive up the road. I look forward to all the well considered replies. cheers, Terry Edited October 26, 2022 by TerryO 12 2
evil c Posted October 26, 2022 Posted October 26, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Assisi said: The answer is very simple. There may be a simplicity with streaming playback that may not suit you. There can be a number of things to be done to get streaming right. I understand that the ritual of other playback strategies can be a pleasing human experience. With streaming the listening outcome with a well implemented digital front end can achieve a very serious satisfying result. It is definitely so in my situation. The implementation can include the utilisation of quality network components that can cost much more than is mentioned in the title of this thread. The quality of the streaming playback listening experience can be very very serious. As well, you can discover, explore and enjoy recordings that you will never easily encounter any other way. It is all about your own discrimination and pursuing specifically what interests you in terms of music. It is all about the experience. John I'm in total agreement with you John, don't get this put down of what is a very effective progression from the limitations of CD players! Access to multiple versions of recordings, and in higher definition, plus all my library to select from in seconds. I've burnt most of my Cds onto my main SSD drive, and compared simultaneously between the original and my stream, ( on an Antipodes k50 with Meitner MA1 V2 DAC), and the difference is very difficult to pick . I love choosing between Qobuz, Tidal, internet radio and my own files- it has enriched my musical experience in spades. Never feel I'm missing out, but I've invested in good quality equipment and matched it to the best of my ability- and the limits of my aging ears. Having said that, l pick up on a lot of things that my young musician son doesn't discern! Oh, and I've still retained my CD and vinyl collection. Edit: l have a $1200 Renolabs switch, that was a very satisfying purchase in terms of a positive improvement. Edited October 26, 2022 by evil c 8
georgehifi Posted October 26, 2022 Author Posted October 26, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, evil c said: I'm in total agreement with you John, don't get this put down of what is a very effective progression from the limitations of CD players! Please list those limitations so we can see if it has to do with sound quality, or getting up looking for and changing the physical media cd/vinyl. 7 hours ago, evil c said: I've burnt most of my Cds onto my main SSD drive, and compared simultaneously between the original and my stream, ( on an Antipodes k50 with Meitner MA1 V2 DAC), and the difference is very difficult to pick . Granted this should be undetectable if the same dac is used, and if the HD's power supply is as good as what's in the CD transport. (but it's not streaming) 7 hours ago, evil c said: I love choosing between Qobuz, Tidal, internet radio and my own files- it has enriched my musical experience in spades. Granted, as with what I and others have said it's a great way to hear music that we want and have then gone out and purchased the 1st release version on CD, as it's most likely much less compressed than the far later streamed/downloaded version. https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/1/year/asc?artist=&album=Yellow Brick Road Cheers George Edited October 26, 2022 by georgehifi 1
Volunteer El Tel Posted October 26, 2022 Volunteer Posted October 26, 2022 9 hours ago, TerryO said: Sorry gentlemen, for those of you who obviously have never actually heard a truly well set up high end streaming front end supplying zero’s and ones to a equally impressive DAC and believe it can’t possibly sound any good then believe what you want. But just because you have never heard it doesn’t mean anything other than you don’t really know what you are missing out on. The proof is, as with all things important in this listening to music hobby of ours, in the hearing. Once again, I’ll invite any one who wants to hear or doubts how very good a streamed front end, including one of those dastardly expensive Audiophile switch’s, can make a pretty good hifi system ultimately sound, to contact me for a listening session. … Yes that was a rather long cumbersome sentence, if I say so myself. The only thing I ask in return is you eat humble pie afterwards and admit what you hear in writing here on this forum. As I have said, I have made such invitations previously when similar comments have been made, but not once has one of the vocal minority taken up the opportunity to broaden their horizons, even when some of the most vocal live less than an hours drive up the road. I look forward to all the well considered replies. cheers, Terry I am fully aware that my posts and my dispassionate views are unpopular with many on here, so I have not mentioned my follow-up experimentation, detailed later, prior to now in order to salve sensibilities. If something behaves in an unexpected way, I want to know why and I won't hesitate to recreate a setup and use other methods that are not subjective to test it to uncover why. I am happy not being part of the cool group and do not seek recognition or adulation; I certainly would not trade credibility for popularity. I probably would have be burned at the stake 400 years ago as a consequence. It is not about eating humble pie. This is not a faction war; it is not "you versus me" or any other form of confrontation. It is about the problem. The problem is what we should turn to, not who is right or wrong. Any decent scientist will certainly change their view in the light of new evidence that supplants that which was theorised and demonstrated previously. I would place myself in the party that would change their view when given objective evidence. Let's not call belief into it or obfuscate the subject of network switches by proffering a "truly well set up high end streaming front end". Scientific method would demand that we isolate and control as many variables as we can in order to objectively uncover the behaviour of an isolated piece of equipment. A sighted, subjective assessment with all the variables left to chance is not the approach. I'm sure the system you're offering sounds great. So do valve amps. So do many effects pedals between guitar and Vox AC30 amp. I get it. I have valves too and love the sound. Sounding great is not a proxy for sounding right; it is often colouration. AND THAT'S FINE. By way of example, I was party to a recent experiment that sought to re-test (and subsequently expand upon) the theory previously demonstrated that EMI can traverse shielded patch leads. The reason to re-test was to see if we could reliably recreate the previous observations that bore this out. Only then can we push on with additional tests that use that proven theory as a baseline upon which to build. The upshot of the experiment was that when we pushed further, an "audiophile grade" switch performed worse in terms of EMI shielding of its own chassis than a consumer Netgear switch costing a few bucks more than a round of drinks. I've deliberately cut to the conclusion and not detailed method as I know most will not read it anyway and heels will be dug in way before the first paragraph is finished. There was also an interesting observation from another Roon poster that one of the audiophile branded Ethernet cables we used did not meet its own manufacturing specifications. If there is the remotest interest, you can search the Roon forum where I posted at length on method and conclusions. In closing, I have been told to get lost and go create my own threads on this matter and not pollute the myriad other threads on audiophile Ethernet. I was further told that any thread that besmirched audiophile networking would get zero attention or participation. Yet here we are. Have a fab day listening. Tel 6 3 1 2
MrBurns84 Posted October 26, 2022 Posted October 26, 2022 On 25/10/2022 at 7:13 PM, Addicted to music said: Soon I’ll have wireless power to do away with the power cord. Oh i so welcome when devices can do that one day!!
Assisi Posted October 26, 2022 Posted October 26, 2022 34 minutes ago, El Tel said: If there is the remotest interest, you can search the Roon forum where I posted at length on method and conclusions. Please post a link to your ROON post so that those of us who are interested can read more. John
aussievintage Posted October 26, 2022 Posted October 26, 2022 On 26/10/2022 at 4:48 AM, Tweaky said: The quality of sound wasn't the deciding factor that has put me off streaming, it was a strange disconnection from the music I was listening to that I have never felt before, it's like everything has become elevator music, and consequently little enjoyment in hearing it. I've tried to work out why I feel like this, and the only conclusion is that maybe I'm too wedded to the ritual of music playback via other means, and need that ritual to be emotionally receptive to music. I suppose the best way I can describe how I feel about streaming is, it's sort of like if things come too easily to you , you can tend to not value them as much. Found myself nodding in agreement. It starts with buying as new record. You select your purchase carefully, to maximise return for your hard earned $. You carry it home, or await it being delivered, then there's the grand opening of the package, discovering the liner notes and other promotional material in there, removing the recording, maybe cleaning, and place it on the turntable, or it the CD player for the first time. Sit back and relax with cover notes in hand, and enjoy the first listening. Because you have been careful with your purchase, this usually results in great pleasure and enjoyment. After playing, you proudly place it on the shelf with the rest of your collection 4
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