Guest atilsley Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) Finally got started on this exciting new project for myself. It will feature: Bass: Eminence Lab12 driver in 80 liter ported cabinet. I’ve completed 90% of the cabinet so far…have used lovely 18mm Euro Birch Ply for the outer, with a second layer of standard 18mm ply on the inside. Two horizontal and one small vertical brace added. The front baffle is three layers of 18mm ply, total 54mm thick. Port is 4 inch diameter at 500mm length, opening to the base. 50mm wooden feet to be added. This small cabinet is very heavy…and should act as a great bass solution, which will extend up to 550Hz. (Thanks to Henry for his support on this part of the project.) Mid: Yuichi 290Hz wooden horn to be made by myself, using CNC’d 24mm Euro Birch ply. I have already got the CAD drawings made up….and have added some tweaks to the design including dowel holes for easy alignment of parts. The 290Hz is the largest horn in the Yuichi range…635mm wide x 400mm deep x 230mm tall. This will operate from 500/550Hz up to around 5,000Hz. http://www.geocities.jp/arai401204/Horn_Page/Horn_Speakers.html The trickiest part of this build will be hand machining (plane and sander) of the large horizontal curve at the horn mouth. Down the track, I’ll improve the design by using 3D router. Mid driver. This is the MASSIVE Altec 288 1.4 inch large format compression driver…which operates effectively from below 500Hz to around 7,000Hz. I have a pair of these pristine drivers for use. I cannot believe the weight and size…14Kgs each…about the size of a volley ball. I have the 16ohm model, with about 110dB efficiency. Tweeter: TBA, potentially JBL slot type, or, depending on how I go with building the Yuichi 290, I may build the petite Yuichi 1,000Hz horn and use dedicated one-inch compression driver. http://www.geocities.jp/arai401204/Horn/A1K/A1K.html Crossovers. I have MiniDSP to manage the bass…but will use passive components for the mid horn and tweeter. Amp: This is the exciting part…I have ordered a custom six channel amp from Anthony Holton at Holton Precision Audio (Aussie Amplifers), which is 6 x 100 watts of quality Mosfet gear. Four channels will be bridged into two to drive the Lab12’s, as these are only 89dB efficient. I will piggy back the mid horn and tweeters off the remaining two channels. http://www.aussieamplifiers.com/gallery.htm Certainly a lot of fun ahead….as I’ve been deliberating over this for some time…and I think I have the making of a really classy system. Future thoughts: Depending on how the Lab12 bass goes, I may add a dedicated mid-bass horn for the 150-500Hz range. I have already drawn up an Altec A5/7 VOTT with the large cabeinet section removed...just using the horn component. This would feature Altec/GPA 416 or 515. Alternatively, Yuichi has drawn up a nice model which features 10 inch EV woofer. A few choices to consider. With the six channel amp, I have this aspect covered already. A couple of pics of other Yuichi projects...which I keep looking at for inspiration.... Edited August 30, 2013 by atilsley
lovetube Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 Finally got started on this exciting new project for myself. It will feature: Bass: Eminence Lab12 driver in 80 liter ported cabinet. I’ve completed 90% of the cabinet so far…have used lovely 18mm Euro Birch Ply for the outer, with a second layer of standard 18mm ply on the inside. Two horizontal and one small vertical brace added. The front baffle is three layers of 18mm ply, total 54mm thick. Port is 4 inch diameter at 500mm length, opening to the base. 50mm wooden feet to be added. This small cabinet is very heavy…and should act as a great bass solution, which will extend up to 550Hz. (Thanks to Henry for his support on this part of the project.) Mid: Yuichi 290Hz wooden horn to be made by myself, using CNC’d 24mm Euro Birch ply. I have already got the CAD drawings made up….and have added some tweaks to the design including dowel holes for easy alignment of parts. The 290Hz is the largest horn in the Yuichi range…635mm wide x 400mm deep x 230mm tall. This will operate from 500/550Hz up to around 5,000Hz. http://www.geocities.jp/arai401204/Horn_Page/Horn_Speakers.html The trickiest part of this build will be hand machining (plane and sander) of the large horizontal curve at the horn mouth. Down the track, I’ll improve the design by using 3D router. Mid driver. This is the MASSIVE Altec 288 1.4 inch large format compression driver…which operates effectively from below 500Hz to around 7,000Hz. I have a pair of these pristine drivers for use. I cannot believe the weight and size…14Kgs each…about the size of a volley ball. I have the 16ohm model, with about 110dB efficiency. Tweeter: TBA, potentially JBL slot type, or, depending on how I go with building the Yuichi 290, I may build the petite Yuichi 1,000Hz horn and use dedicated one-inch compression driver. http://www.geocities.jp/arai401204/Horn/A1K/A1K.html Crossovers. I have MiniDSP to manage the bass…but will use passive components for the mid horn and tweeter. Amp: This is the exciting part…I have ordered a custom six channel amp from Anthony Holton at Holton Precision Audio (Aussie Amplifers), which is 6 x 100 watts of quality Mosfet gear. Four channels will be bridged into two to drive the Lab12’s, as these are only 89dB efficient. I will piggy back the mid horn and tweeters off the remaining two channels. http://www.aussieamplifiers.com/gallery.htm Certainly a lot of fun ahead….as I’ve been deliberating over this for some time…and I think I have the making of a really classy system. Future thoughts: Depending on how the Lab12 bass goes, I may add a dedicated mid-bass horn for the 150-500Hz range. I have already drawn up an Altec A5/7 VOTT with the large cabeinet section removed...just using the horn component. This would feature Altec/GPA 416 or 515. Alternatively, Yuichi has drawn up a nice model which features 10 inch EV woofer. A few choices to consider. With the six channel amp, I have this aspect covered already. A couple of pics of other Yuichi projects...which I keep looking at for inspiration.... very nice project . but i have a question. i saw you made a lot of speakers in the last couple years . is it just your habit of building speakers or is it you build them for sale ? you did some great stuff . regards Lovetube
caddisgeek Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 Watching this with interest. I am hoping to have some horns like this one day for my JBL 375 compression drivers
Guest atilsley Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 very nice project . but i have a question. i saw you made a lot of speakers in the last couple years . is it just your habit of building speakers or is it you build them for sale ? you did some great stuff . regards Lovetube Yes, I do build and sell speakers....mainly custom build horn cabinets for Altec, Tannoy, Klipsch, Lowther etc. This project is my own personal system...as I have recently sold off all my gear including Weston Acoustics 300B SET and Altec horns in order to start this new one. Well done on your ABC 12d deck..very nice. I wouldn't mind getting into vinyl...! Andrew
Guest atilsley Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 I am hoping to have some horns like this one day for my JBL 375 compression drivers Then do...!
Guest atilsley Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 Reference Horn ? Well, I think the feedback from the various forum around the world may suggest so. The lower vertical dispersion pattern may be better in-room...and the heavy wood construction would limit/minimise any colouration...eg ringing like on the larger Altec 511/811's. The choice for me was made on the known performance factors, the low xover point (using large format driver), the build method (hands on, CNC etc), and the, hopefully, aesthetic appeal of the end product. I'll now have to get you back to do a another set of sweeps of the new drivers/horns...!! I'll have the Lab12's completed by Sunday night....and will test these with MiniDSP and my spare amp and some cheapie Fostex active monitors some dude lent me.
henry218 Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 that fostex down to 50hz , maybe beneficial for movies, but who knows
davewantsmoore Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 Future thoughts: Depending on how the Lab12 bass goes, I may add a dedicated mid-bass horn for the 150-500Hz range. I have already drawn up an Altec A5/7 VOTT with the large cabeinet section removed...just using the horn component. This would feature Altec/GPA 416 or 515. This will be what you definitely need to do (or similar) for the "reference". Currently you'd be asking your LAB12 to cover 5 octaves.... which would be a problem on it's own .... even if it were a suitable driver to play up that high (it's not, pretty big Le and glitches) FWIW... I'm not entirely convinced that the altec midbass horns are really that great a design ... especially if you sit close to them.
Newman Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 Love love love this project! hifi madness at its mad best (said with affection, my friend). Show us more as it comes along! 1
Guest atilsley Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 This will be what you definitely need to do (or similar) for the "reference". Currently you'd be asking your LAB12 to cover 5 octaves.... which would be a problem on it's own .... even if it were a suitable driver to play up that high (it's not, pretty big Le and glitches) FWIW... I'm not entirely convinced that the altec midbass horns are really that great a design ... especially if you sit close to them. OK, thanks for your thoughts...all good. I've been enamoured with Atec for a while...but happy to look at others. Some on the thinking list: Azura big horn with Lowther or smaller 5 or 6 inch driver. Yuichi mid bass with 10 inch EV driver (or similar). http://www.geocities.jp/arai401204/Horn/A190E/A190E.html Klipsch La Scala. Bert Doppenberg open baffle wave guide/horn (which I have already started by building the frames)...see pic. Whatever I choose, I'm restricted to depth...for example, the VOTT and Yuichi size would work, being ~60cm deep. What would you do?
Upfront Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 I'm using a 204Hz Azurahorn with an 8" lowther for (depending on my mood) 200Hz up to 10Khz at the moment. Worth doing.
Guest atilsley Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 I'm using a 204Hz Azurahorn with an 8" lowther for (depending on my mood) 200Hz up to 10Khz at the moment. Worth doing. Thanks....I love what Martin Sneddon does...and for $900 or so bucks...can't think of a better product for this mid-bass need. How do you describe the mid bass attack? That's probably the main test for me. Also, if I went down that path, I'd probably try the new Tang Band 8 inch driver, replete with neodymium magnet....they seem excellent....and might just knock the Fostex 206E off the 'best bang for buck full range driver' off its perch. I've used Lowther, Visaton B200, Decware, Fostex, Audio Nirvana in the past for various apps, but never in front loaded cabs. http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w8-1772.htm What amp do you use to drive the Lowther in the Azura?
lovetube Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 Yes, I do build and sell speakers....mainly custom build horn cabinets for Altec, Tannoy, Klipsch, Lowther etc. This project is my own personal system...as I have recently sold off all my gear including Weston Acoustics 300B SET and Altec horns in order to start this new one. Well done on your ABC 12d deck..very nice. I wouldn't mind getting into vinyl...! Andrew Hi Andrew. great . i love your work on speakers cabs too . i do build speakers but only for my own use so I know how much work involve. just build my self a double 15" grand onken , i haven't seen you go double 15" yet regards Lovetube
damohpi Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 Watching this with interest. I am hoping to have some horns like this one day for my JBL 375 compression drivers what about the JBL 537-500?
Guest atilsley Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 Hi Andrew. great . i love your work on speakers cabs too . i do build speakers but only for my own use so I know how much work involve. just build my self a double 15" grand onken , i haven't seen you go double 15" yet regards Lovetube Man, don't tempt me. Double Onken should be a very nice bass indeed....depth, scale, everything. One of the 'double' bass speakers I really like is the Klipsch Jubilee, part of the pro series. http://www.klipsch.com/kpt-jubilee/details
lovetube Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) Man, don't tempt me. Double Onken should be a very nice bass indeed....depth, scale, everything. One of the 'double' bass speakers I really like is the Klipsch Jubilee, part of the pro series. http://www.klipsch.com/kpt-jubilee/details don't rush to it . when you are down here you can listen to it and decide regards Lovetube Edited August 30, 2013 by lovetube 1
Guest atilsley Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 Hi Andrew. great . i love your work on speakers cabs too . i do build speakers but only for my own use so I know how much work involve. just build my self a double 15" grand onken , i haven't seen you go double 15" yet regards Lovetube Bit of inspiration for you...should the dual 15's not be big enough...
Guest atilsley Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 don't rush to it . when you are down here you can listen to it and decide regards Lovetube Wild...love it. What are the horns, Jabo, Autotech?....drivers?
lovetube Posted August 31, 2013 Posted August 31, 2013 Wild...love it. What are the horns, Jabo, Autotech?....drivers? the horns is Azurahorn with JBL drivers and Altec 416 8b woofers . Lovetube
davewantsmoore Posted August 31, 2013 Posted August 31, 2013 What would you do? Use the LAB12 up to 100Hz, and then another driver in between for 100-500. (Drivers need to operate at least an octave up/down from this) Assuming you will have a passive XO between the 100-500 driver and the horn .... then you are going to need a driver which will play quite high. To 1khz. This means another horn if you want to go that way.... I would wuss out myself and go or a direct radiator. 12 to 15 inches, sealed, 100L-ish (depends on driver of course). I do appreciate this would increase the size and complexity of your system a lot (passive crossovers in this region are a pain) .... however the LAB12 used up this high is not a good choice at all (it's purely a subwoofer) Even the manufacturer lists it's usable frequency range as 25 - 125Hz (often optimistic)
henry218 Posted August 31, 2013 Posted August 31, 2013 Jeff B designed a 3way based on LAB12 where he used it to 2-300hz. yeah, in all senses 500hz looks abit high, but we never know until we tried it.
Guest atilsley Posted August 31, 2013 Posted August 31, 2013 Thanks Dave Spent a good few hours today getting the cabs to 95% done. Ports are 50cm @ 4 inch di. They're getting heavy...
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