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The more I spend, the more problems are revealed


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13 hours ago, Barton Price said:

Every upgrade reduces my enjoyment - I wish I still had dad’s 3 in 1. That was pure aural fun!

 

 

You are a lucky man.....:)

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What a predicament. It sounds like a real conundrum that can only lead to frustration and money wasted, and yet, without knowing what equipment you're using and the music you enjoy it's hard to know just what root cause is.

 

I know that many recordings are so poor that no amount of cash splashed on high-end gear will rescue them, indeed much of the said gear will only play nice with the dreaded "audiophile recordings' that will bore the crap out of any self-respecting music lover (said tongue-in-cheek guys, put the poison quill away).

 

On the other hand it may also be that what you consider to be vast sums spent on wisely purchased, top-quality kit is but an illusion of poorly matched mid-fi, each component compounding the others failures.

 

Hope that makes you feel better and if you're still sobbing into your beer I've heard many a punter on here say they can love their fave tunes on a tinny transistor radio.- Yeah right.

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Barton Priceif every upgrade reduces your enjoyment then it is not an upgrade. I use a second system , vintage Sansui 331 reciever 12wpc and a Marantz CD 52mk II, Opera standmounts, makes average recorded music sound great. My main system give great satisfaction every time i listen to it.

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On 12/8/2022 at 8:21 PM, Barton Price said:

Every upgrade reduces my enjoyment - I wish I still had dad’s 3 in 1. That was pure aural fun!

 

 

Welcome to the rabbit hole.  Stay away from the ferrets.

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Hi team, greetings from the Rabbit hole.

 

 Here’s the most recent part of the journey:

start: td125/sme 3009/shure v15 type ii. Quad Elite pre, hafler power (old and big), magnepan smga.

 

changes in sequence:

1. shure v15 type iii, then replaced stylus with Jilco.

2. replaced hafler with quad elite power

3.  replaced shure with ortofon mm black

4.  replaced quad elite pre with quad qc24 pre

5.  replaced quad elite power with quad QSP.

 

 Outcome: td125/3009/ortofon black. Quad QC24 and QSP. Magnepan Smga.

 

many many aspects of the sound have improved, but the slightest bit of dust on an album is absolutely screaming at me. I’ve had to really work on the vta, and now it’s perfect for new thick records and I add a felt mat for older thinner records.  The bass has really tightened up and become clearer. Many voices sound great, but others are dull. I have an Overall sense the high frequencies are rolled off. Violins don’t zing, max roach doesn’t ting!

 

i suspect the mismatch is from sticking with magnepans , as the rest of the rig is pretty easy to mix and match. So I either need even bigger Amps, and bigger  better Maggie’s, or move back to boxes. I’ve always fancied Tannoys, or perhaps the newish Wharfedale Lintons? Or total embrace quad with ESL?


or should I just  get an old pye 3 in 1 and buy grange  or whisky with the change? That might be a more enjoyable night!

 

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Careful matching of components/speakers is much more important than brand/model/price. You've probably upgraded into something that doesn't quite match and is too neutral. Have a good think about the sound you are desiring ;) 

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  • 2 weeks later...

There are many threads on the forum describing systems where everything matches well, it would seem to head in the right direction to see  and ask further as to why those systems worked. 

 

Another solution is to look at the design goals for each piece of equipment you presently use, and if you can also look further into the schematic representation. View the input to the output as a journey for the audio signal, then ask is my audio signal getting lost in switches relays and methods which plainly deteriorate. Then look at the distortion measurements, as this will correlate. 

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/quad/qc-twenty-four.shtml

 

 

  

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Stop - stop - stop - don’t do anything else / turn your focus to the music - walk away from the equipment focus for a year and just learn love and enjoy your music again / good music - and I don’t mean sound quality but music that moves you doesn’t need expensive equipment- get the balance back then slowly start again on the equipment journey with an approach that focuses on enjoying a change but not judging how good or bad your equipment is - find the fun in upgrades but without being overly focused on that being the central focus 

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1 minute ago, Andythiing said:

Stop - stop - stop - don’t do anything else / turn your focus to the music - walk away from the equipment focus for a year and just learn love and enjoy your music again / good music - and I don’t mean sound quality but music that moves you doesn’t need expensive equipment- get the balance back then slowly start again on the equipment journey with an approach that focuses on enjoying a change but not judging how good or bad your equipment is - find the fun in upgrades but without being overly focused on that being the central focus 

Can though be chicken before the egg, as to hear good music requires said well matched system. There is opportunity though to hear live music, and that's always a good reference, as long as your seating position is meeting your needs,

 

My advice would be to hear a really well matched system, ( PM sent ) learn and ask further questions, as there are as I say many on the forum who enjoy ( myself included ) music from their systems.  

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On 30/08/2022 at 2:56 AM, Yamaha_man said:

Welcome to the rabbit hole.  Stay away from the ferrets.

And a very pleasant " rabbit hole " indeed. 🎷 

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3 hours ago, stereo coffee said:

Can though be chicken before the egg, as to hear good music requires said well matched system. There is opportunity though to hear live music, and that's always a good reference, as long as your seating position is meeting your needs,

 

My advice would be to hear a really well matched system, ( PM sent ) learn and ask further questions, as there are as I say many on the forum who enjoy ( myself included ) music from their systems.  

Indeed 

 

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7A1B8A19-B238-431F-90C2-381B29CC05F0.thumb.jpeg.8be0b9e1dfd336b616f0b6a253bc58c7.jpeg

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On 17/08/2022 at 12:23 AM, Grimmie said:

What a predicament. It sounds like a real conundrum that can only lead to frustration and money wasted, and yet, without knowing what equipment you're using and the music you enjoy it's hard to know just what root cause is.

 

I know that many recordings are so poor that no amount of cash splashed on high-end gear will rescue them, indeed much of the said gear will only play nice with the dreaded "audiophile recordings' that will bore the crap out of any self-respecting music lover (said tongue-in-cheek guys, put the poison quill away).

 

On the other hand it may also be that what you consider to be vast sums spent on wisely purchased, top-quality kit is but an illusion of poorly matched mid-fi, each component compounding the others failures.

 

Hope that makes you feel better and if you're still sobbing into your beer I've heard many a punter on here say they can love their fave tunes on a tinny transistor radio.- Yeah right.

i started my life long music journey which turned into a hifi obsession with a tiny Astor 7 transistor radio listening to buddy holly,duane  eddy,gene vincent,eddy cochran,elvis and loved every minute of it📻

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On 31/08/2022 at 10:20 AM, Barton Price said:

or should I just  get an old pye 3 in 1 and buy grange  or whisky with the change? That might be a more enjoyable night!

If enjoyment is your goal, perhaps that is as good as any place to start.

 

For what its worth I think the system budget ballpark you are playing in has a huge amount of choice over an enormous timeline and similar costing or slightly more or less costing gear can be an amazing improvement all the way down to the worst move ever, depending on system synergy.  Trying to put something together without a lot of experience is going to be really tough and getting things really wrong and ending up worse is definitely part of that and I would expect that.  The fact that you are not enjoyiing the sound of your system is a good sign your listening skills and expectations of how you want it to sound are developing and on the right track. (Hint, its always the right track for you) Dont pay attention to what others think is great if you dont like it!!. They are wrong and you are right (for you, just not for them).

 

If you are not wanting to go through that pain then take advice from others that are more experienced or copy a system that is within your budget and you do like the sound of.   

 

I think everyone thinks putting a good system together is simple and want to have a go themselves. You have had a go and ended up not happy, s  Just copy someone elses exactly if you have to. It will only make them feel pretty good about their choices and you will have a great starting point and someone to discuss changes with that really gets it.

 

Another option is , If budget allows, get a trusted retailer to put something together for you that suits what you like. That seems to work well for some people.

 

Maybe a good way to think about it is a beginner wine drinker's preference compared with someone very experienced.  And how they might become more experienced and the changes in their preference over time. At any point in time their preference is never "wrong". I think there are many parallels.

Edited by frednork
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On 12/08/2022 at 9:51 PM, Barton Price said:

Every upgrade reduces my enjoyment - I wish I still had dad’s 3 in 1. That was pure aural fun!

Sorry to hear that you haven't really been upgrading your enjoyment but just changing your gear. 

For me it was important to keep remembering that all the gear is just to enjoy the music, so whatever works for you is right. Focus on the music, nothing else.👍

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31 minutes ago, Yamaha_man said:

You’re obviously just entering the whole judging by your enthusiasm. 

After 50  plus years playing around with this stuff I'd hardly call it " just entering ".

It's been a fun, entertaining and enlightening journey.

 

I use my ears to judge nothing else.

04641BE1-F2B8-43CC-9DD2-97F2A3589DFA.thumb.jpeg.00c47f8f6f1694e1636706f018f2b8ff.jpeg

 

Garage system

40300109-CCFE-411D-B1F6-9E53EB1987F3.thumb.jpeg.3bcbf28962fcac08e76b211b7ee1bf45.jpeg

Edited by Tim 2
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22 minutes ago, Tim 2 said:

After 50  plus years playing around with this stuff I'd hardly call it " just entering ".

It's been a fun, entertaining and enlightening journey.

 

I use my ears to judge nothing else.

04641BE1-F2B8-43CC-9DD2-97F2A3589DFA.thumb.jpeg.00c47f8f6f1694e1636706f018f2b8ff.jpeg

 

Garage system

40300109-CCFE-411D-B1F6-9E53EB1987F3.thumb.jpeg.3bcbf28962fcac08e76b211b7ee1bf45.jpeg

50 plus years and still full of enthusiasm…… impressive!

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Maybe it's not the equipment.

 

I have made very few changes to my gear, but over the years have perfected the setup of listening chair and speaker positioning. I've done it for others and have always found I could improve the sound. I see many posts on the net with expensive gear just plonked up against a wall. That's the easiest way to stay on the 'upgrade' Mary go round. Whatever you buy will still come through speakers in the wrong spot to ears in the wrong spot.

 

Setup takes time and effort, but once you have that right, just about any system will sound enjoyable.

 

Try 'Get Better Sound' by Jim Smith. Best money I've ever spent. Second best money I've ever spent.

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