Be Quiet...Listen Posted December 7, 2022 Posted December 7, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, cafe67 said: Does the newer Koestu still have THE Koestu sound “ house” sound - I’ve seen a few mentions of “ rich, warm and woolly) as describing the sound - but these comments also seem to be for early models. I imagine the various models have their own sound , it is their an overall sound ? Rich, warm and wooly are all adjectives used by people who have incorrectly or inadequately set them up! Get the the alignment right and use an adequate arm and they’re nothing of the sort. Edited December 7, 2022 by Be Quiet...Listen 2
skies2clear Posted December 7, 2022 Posted December 7, 2022 3 hours ago, Be Quiet...Listen said: Rich, warm and wooly are all adjectives used by people who have incorrectly or inadequately set them up! Get the the alignment right and use an adequate arm and they’re nothing of the sort. And to add to this, woolly they should not be. Certainly though not sterile and "hifi" sounding like many other cartridges.
metal beat Posted December 9, 2022 Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) OK Koetsu experts. What is the sweet point with Koetsu cartridges. I own Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Etna SL but recently put on my old Ortofon A90 and it was really good - a slightly sweeter sound but still with plenty of detail. My only experience was with a Rosewood some years ago and all the warm, rolled off highs, indistinct bass seemed true - My Denon 103R with ESC Paratrace stylus and wood body sounded better. that said, during that time I did have a very bass heavy muddy room, so they did not help the Koetsu. But, Koetsu must have good sounding cartridges, hence the post. I don't have that much interest in going up to the mega expensive Koetsu's ( unless I can hear it first in my system) but looking for good full bass, must have high frequency extension and that magic " midrange" Koetsu is famous for. eg, what is the difference between say a Koetsu Urushi Gold (Tsugaru) and a Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum and the stone versions? cheers Edited December 9, 2022 by metal beat
cafe67 Posted December 9, 2022 Posted December 9, 2022 @metal beat in my recent looking around I found these 2 fairly detailed articles on Koetsu carts might be helpful to you. https://medialux.blog/2019/07/07/the-koetsu-story-japanese-art-part-1/?fbclid=IwAR3evMaSmrTh7NuMMriCdyvVDFYh1vzFI4Vp2Q4J6b_hP2NJjjD6kfSomwA https://medialux.blog/2019/07/08/4-koetsu-compared-japanese-art-part-ii/?fbclid=IwAR1AJ-lZbC6wt155h-NbdJPmDL42GS_zkQZr9GCKllOUhC1_MUGYH97YrHs 5 1
Be Quiet...Listen Posted December 9, 2022 Posted December 9, 2022 7 hours ago, cafe67 said: @metal beat in my recent looking around I found these 2 fairly detailed articles on Koetsu carts might be helpful to you. https://medialux.blog/2019/07/07/the-koetsu-story-japanese-art-part-1/?fbclid=IwAR3evMaSmrTh7NuMMriCdyvVDFYh1vzFI4Vp2Q4J6b_hP2NJjjD6kfSomwA https://medialux.blog/2019/07/08/4-koetsu-compared-japanese-art-part-ii/?fbclid=IwAR1AJ-lZbC6wt155h-NbdJPmDL42GS_zkQZr9GCKllOUhC1_MUGYH97YrHs Great blog that one. The OP gets a little excitable which makes for a good read.
Be Quiet...Listen Posted December 9, 2022 Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, metal beat said: OK Koetsu experts. What is the sweet point with Koetsu cartridges. You've got some carts very different to mine and I know our respective systems are quite different. But, I'll drop my 2 cents. I own five Koetsu's (among other carts), these being the Rosewood long body, Rosewood Signature, Rosewood Signature Platinum, Urushi Gold (not Wajima or Tsugaru) and a Onyx Platinum Diamond. I did own a Black. I have also heard the Urushi Vermillion, Blue Lace Platinum and Coralstone Platinum (in a relatively familiar system). So far I have no hesitation's reporting that the Rosewood Platinum is the sweet spot of the range. This is echoed by Nirvana Sound (Aust. importer) and Koetsu themselves have stated that it's their biggest seller. As an extension to the above, it is worthwhile noting that the Urushi line presents very good performance vs. cost value. There are virtues of my Urushi Gold that I find very rewarding when compared to my others. And it may be worth noting that the Coralstone Platinum (now discontinued), which is said to be the pinnacle of Koetsu's, has been surmised by many owners to sound 'In the middle of the Onyx Platinum and the Urushi line and in all the good ways!' I was enchanted by the Blue Lace Platinum. Utterly beautiful sounding cart. I haven't heard your Lyra's but feel that perhaps (while not exactly of course) they may share similar sonic attributes. Food for thought. The typical caveat applies to Koetsu's - only high mass, ridged arms will do. My Kuzma 4P11 plays great partner to mine. Hope this helps? Edited December 9, 2022 by Be Quiet...Listen 4 1
metal beat Posted December 9, 2022 Posted December 9, 2022 3 hours ago, Be Quiet...Listen said: You've got some carts very different to mine and I know our respective systems are quite different. But, I'll drop my 2 cents. I own five Koetsu's (among other carts), these being the Rosewood long body, Rosewood Signature, Rosewood Signature Platinum, Urushi Gold (not Wajima or Tsugaru) and a Onyx Platinum Diamond. I did own a Black. I have also heard the Urushi Vermillion, Blue Lace Platinum and Coralstone Platinum (in a relatively familiar system). So far I have no hesitation's reporting that the Rosewood Platinum is the sweet spot of the range. This is echoed by Nirvana Sound (Aust. importer) and Koetsu themselves have stated that it's their biggest seller. As an extension to the above, it is worthwhile noting that the Urushi line presents very good performance vs. cost value. There are virtues of my Urushi Gold that I find very rewarding when compared to my others. And it may be worth noting that the Coralstone Platinum (now discontinued), which is said to be the pinnacle of Koetsu's, has been surmised by many owners to sound 'In the middle of the Onyx Platinum and the Urushi line and in all the good ways!' I was enchanted by the Blue Lace Platinum. Utterly beautiful sounding cart. I haven't heard your Lyra's but feel that perhaps (while not exactly of course) they may share similar sonic attributes. Food for thought. The typical caveat applies to Koetsu's - only high mass, ridged arms will do. My Kuzma 4P11 plays great partner to mine. Hope this helps? Thanks. What do you find the main differences between your Rosewood Platinum and the Urushi? As I understand the different lacquer finishes has quite an impact on the sound of the Urushi? 1
Be Quiet...Listen Posted December 10, 2022 Posted December 10, 2022 Well, the Rosewood Platinum has a gloss-like finish much like the Urushi line. The platinum magnets afford 'greater' dynamics than the standard magnets of the Urushi's. 1
cafe latte Posted December 11, 2022 Posted December 11, 2022 On 07/12/2022 at 6:06 PM, cafe67 said: Does the newer Koestu still have THE Koestu sound “ house” sound - I’ve seen a few mentions of “ rich, warm and woolly) as describing the sound - but these comments also seem to be for early models. I imagine the various models have their own sound , it is their an overall sound ? Koetsu sound fab on the correct effective mass arm. They are a heavy cartridge, pair with a lighting arm and it will sound woolly. With the correct compliance match they sound fab Chris 1
Fidelity Sounds Posted December 12, 2022 Author Posted December 12, 2022 1 hour ago, cafe latte said: Koetsu sound fab on the correct effective mass arm. They are a heavy cartridge, pair with a lighting arm and it will sound woolly. With the correct compliance match they sound fab Chris Yes. people discuss about koetsu sound but not many mention about this which most importance Koetsu sound fab on the correct effective mass arm. They are a heavy cartridge, pair with a lighting arm and it will sound woolly. With the correct compliance match they sound fab Chris
WorkinClassAudio Posted December 12, 2022 Posted December 12, 2022 I used to have an original Onyx which I had retipped by Koetsu a few years ago. The retip by current Koetsu operators brought the cartridge to original sound. Unfortunately I had to sell that cartridge. I ended up with Ortofon MCAnna. The Anna sounds like the Onyx but with lower output and lower noise floor (which you get with increased windings). Yes, the Anna is more extended at the top and the bottom but people make too much of frequency extension. The Onyx is better with voice. I believe the current Onyx is cheaper than the Anna. 1
Be Quiet...Listen Posted September 29, 2023 Posted September 29, 2023 Meanwhile… I have been enjoying listening and comparing all of these wonderful cartridges of mine this past little while. Having owned 29 moving coil cartridges all at once until recently, and collectively owning approx. 40 over the years, these are the absolute cream of the crop! Eight Koetsu’s (five Platinum’s), two EMT’s & the Air Tight PC1 Supreme left standing. There is a special kind of synergy between these Japanese carts and the Kuzma 4 Point 11 & 4 Point 14 arms. Nothing quite like high effective mass! Oh, and the Blue Lace sounds particularly spectacular with the Wilson Alexx V’s! 4 3
metal beat Posted September 29, 2023 Posted September 29, 2023 2 hours ago, Be Quiet...Listen said: Meanwhile… I have been enjoying listening and comparing all of these wonderful cartridges of mine this past little while. Having owned 29 moving coil cartridges all at once until recently, and collectively owning approx. 40 over the years, these are the absolute cream of the crop! Eight Koetsu’s (five Platinum’s), two EMT’s & the Air Tight PC1 Supreme left standing. There is a special kind of synergy between these Japanese carts and the Kuzma 4 Point 11 & 4 Point 14 arms. Nothing quite like high effective mass! Oh, and the Blue Lace sounds particularly spectacular with the Wilson Alexx V’s! One could give up watching porn if you keep posting this stuff. If you want high effective mass, imagine how a Safir would sound. Trav, you own an Alexx V - respect dude and more than a little envy
blownaway Posted September 29, 2023 Posted September 29, 2023 2 hours ago, Be Quiet...Listen said: Meanwhile… I have been enjoying listening and comparing all of these wonderful cartridges of mine this past little while. Having owned 29 moving coil cartridges all at once until recently, and collectively owning approx. 40 over the years, these are the absolute cream of the crop! Eight Koetsu’s (five Platinum’s), two EMT’s & the Air Tight PC1 Supreme left standing. There is a special kind of synergy between these Japanese carts and the Kuzma 4 Point 11 & 4 Point 14 arms. Nothing quite like high effective mass! Oh, and the Blue Lace sounds particularly spectacular with the Wilson Alexx V’s! Do you have a list of what you tried on the Kuzma 4 point. I have that arm and was wondering what would you consider the top 3 cartridges, or does it depend on matching the cartridge with the music genre as far as you are concerned? Very few are privileged to have such an amazing array of high end cartridges to compare. presently use a Clearaudio Da Vinci V2 , but always interested in what is possible.
cafe latte Posted October 5, 2023 Posted October 5, 2023 47 minutes ago, Peterbean said: Opinions on Koesu rosewood anyone? It is a very good cartridge, but it needs the right arm. Are you looking new or used? The Koetsu in general are very tough carts, the coils and suspension seem to last decades even very old ones can sound top notch after a good service. Chris
Peterbean Posted October 5, 2023 Posted October 5, 2023 27 minutes ago, cafe latte said: It is a very good cartridge, but it needs the right arm. Are you looking new or used? The Koetsu in general are very tough carts, the coils and suspension seem to last decades even very old ones can sound top notch after a good service. Chris Thanks Chris i.m looking at one on Audio Asylum marketplace, but the seller has no ratings so I’m not sure how safe it is buying there I have a couple of FRs that I do like but the idea of a Koetsu aroused .my interest
joeling Posted October 5, 2023 Posted October 5, 2023 With the current situation unfolding, what, in anyone & everyone's opinion, is the closest brand / model of cartridge in terms of sonic performance and presentation to that of Koetsus ? What can be a replacement to Koetsus if there are no more Koetsus in the market place ? Did I mention that it took me only 8 years to get my Koetsu to sing. It's only been 3-4 years since & now there are decisions to make for its replacement when the tip runs out
DonGreen Posted October 6, 2023 Posted October 6, 2023 Are carts described (on eBay) as Koya Rosewood Standard really Koetsu? I'm not ready to make the jump, even to MC yet, but just like to keep an eye on the market, and see what's out there to dream about.
cafe latte Posted October 6, 2023 Posted October 6, 2023 On 05/10/2023 at 2:31 PM, joeling said: With the current situation unfolding, what, in anyone & everyone's opinion, is the closest brand / model of cartridge in terms of sonic performance and presentation to that of Koetsus ? What can be a replacement to Koetsus if there are no more Koetsus in the market place ? Did I mention that it took me only 8 years to get my Koetsu to sing. It's only been 3-4 years since & now there are decisions to make for its replacement when the tip runs out Just get it retipped. Chris 1
Be Quiet...Listen Posted October 7, 2023 Posted October 7, 2023 On 05/10/2023 at 3:31 PM, joeling said: With the current situation unfolding, what, in anyone & everyone's opinion, is the closest brand / model of cartridge in terms of sonic performance and presentation to that of Koetsus ? What can be a replacement to Koetsus if there are no more Koetsus in the market place ? Did I mention that it took me only 8 years to get my Koetsu to sing. It's only been 3-4 years since & now there are decisions to make for its replacement when the tip runs out You already have the Phasemation PP2000, which electrically is almost a carbon copy of the Koetsu blueprint. Perhaps then the PP5000? Failing that, I'd likely look to audition the Etsuro Urushi Bordeaux or Gold. I have been impressed with the Miyajima carts also, having owned the Shilabe. I can only assume that their top offering Destiny would be brilliant. Worth auditioning both if you can. 3
Bisguittin Posted October 7, 2023 Posted October 7, 2023 23 minutes ago, Be Quiet...Listen said: I have been impressed with the Miyajima carts also, having owned the Shilabe. I can only assume that their top offering Destiny would be brilliant. Worth auditioning both if you can. I now own Travis' Miyajima Shilabe and can testify that it produces very high calibre sonic results - certainly comparable to my vintage Koetsu Rosewood Longbody and my Koetsu Black. I use the term "comparable" advisedly though, as the Shilabe possesses a different family sound. 2
cafe latte Posted October 7, 2023 Posted October 7, 2023 Koetsu sound brilliant but they are not a complex cartridge. If they close down I am sure very quickly there will be a cart released to fill the gap. Chris 1
skies2clear Posted October 7, 2023 Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) I'm not too sure about that. Why isn't a cartridge manufacturer already doing this? I'm not saying it's impossible to do btw Edited October 7, 2023 by skies2clear 1
Fidelity Sounds Posted October 21, 2023 Author Posted October 21, 2023 Vintage Koetsu Rosewood signature long body sound so sweet. 2 2
Recommended Posts