acg Posted August 15, 2013 Posted August 15, 2013 (edited) Hello All, I am chasing some opinion on speakers to plonk into my desktop system. I am not after ordinary...I am after extraordinary...smaller speakers with fantastic imaging, accuracy, detail, speed blahblahblah. Note that this is near-field listening. At the moment I have a dedicated audioPC running XXHighEnd feeding a beautiful Phasure NOS1 USB Dac that will go into amps and speakers that are yet to be determined. My shortlist so far (based on recommendations by others): ML1 and ML2 - I have heard these and am impressed Dynaudio C1 - not heard them SGR CX3B actives - not heard them PMC IB2 - not heard these, but they are probably getting too big Let's keep suggestions under about $15k. EDIT: Listening Room Sketches - due to popular demand I can reconfigure my office or move my office upstairs to the loft. Office - Current Office Option 1 Office Option 2 Loft Option 1 Loft Option 2 Cheers, Anthony Edited August 16, 2013 by acg
Juicester Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Hey Anthony. This has been extensively discussed - you will find this thread useful http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/52807-best-active-desktop-speaker-money-no-object/
henry218 Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 ATC studio monitor, active probably better as they will need lots of power.
L J T Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 I would look at dedicated studio monitors. These are made to be nearfield and the dilemma of component matching of drivers to amps is solved. Many bookshelf speakers, especially the ones higher up need space and sufficient amplification to perform well. 1
davewantsmoore Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Something with DSP to correct for all the large boundary issues you have in near field is essential IMO. Most speakers are designed for be away from boundaries.... so the SETUP of them is key (ie. correction) Unfortunately that doesn't jibe well with your source. For such a near field desktop system, I'd either reconsider the source ... or reconsider the nearfield/desktop-ness. :-S Dilema
davewantsmoore Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 A custom designed analog active XO might be able to correct the speaker to a sensible output ?!?! .... and still keep the digital section of your source doing it's thing. ... but I fear you are fixing square wooden wheels to your Lamborghini. ;-)
hochopeper Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 ... but I fear you are fixing square wooden wheels to your Lamborghini. ;-) Something with DSP to correct for all the large boundary issues you have in near field is essential IMO. Most speakers are designed for be away from boundaries.... so the SETUP of them is key (ie. correction) Agreed. From this perspective SGR might be best option IMO. Or .... headphones. 1
Nada Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Anthony I wonder if I can ask for some more info on your needs so we can help better? When you say "desktop system" have you considered a headphone rig for the office? If you refer speakers eg for imaging do the speakers need to be placed on the desk or could they be stand mounted off the desk and if so how far back can the speakers be placed from your chair? How big is the office space? Will these speakers always be in the office or will they end up in a listening room? If they will move have you thought of floor standers as an option? Edited August 16, 2013 by Nada
Cafad Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Greg Osborns Eos book shelf may do the trick, or the Titans if he is still making them. Although out of $15K you may have to find something to do with all the money that you didn't spend on them.
twwen2 Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Define near-field in your context. Some of those speakers (the Dyn C1s and the ML1s) require a fair amount of volume before they start to come alive - I don't think they'd be suited to near-field listening.
Bronal Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Harbeth P3ESRs or 20.1 Monitors - pair of P3s in mint condition for sale on SNA ATM for $2k with stands. 2
acg Posted August 16, 2013 Author Posted August 16, 2013 Anthony I wonder if I can ask for some more info on your needs so we can help better? When you say "desktop system" have you considered a headphone rig for the office? If you refer speakers eg for imaging do the speakers need to be placed on the desk or could they be stand mounted off the desk and if so how far back can the speakers be placed from your chair? How big is the office space? Will these speakers always be in the office or will they end up in a listening room? If they will move have you thought of floor standers as an option? Ok Nada. I will edit my original post with this information. Should have done it first time obviously.
Nada Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 .... large boundary issues you have in near field.... Que? Id appreciate understanding this please? I thought boundary issues were with wall and floor reflections with far-filed listening so Im missing something here.
davewantsmoore Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Agreed. From this perspective SGR might be best option IMO. Or .... headphones. Yeah... but even the XO in a SGR doesn't have the correction necessary to fix a near field / desktop environment. HUGE dips in the FR are guaranteed... and no speaker will be suitable without correction. You really need DSP (or a custom designed analog active XO in your speaker at least). 1
Nada Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 How about those classic Tannoy dual concentric highly efficient drivers in a nice sealed box? I imagine they would do near field superbly with the point source thing and should be lively at low volumes? Anyone know?
davewantsmoore Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Que? Id appreciate understanding this please? I thought boundary issues were with wall and floor reflections with far-filed listening so Im missing something here. Boundary issues are even worse in near field.... 'cos the boundaries are even closer. So if you put the speakers on a desk ... or even up slightly from the desk on little stands .... You will have enourmous dips in the FR due to the boundaries (ie. the desk).... and whatever other boundaries are close by. This will not be good. The environment the speakers are in has the most effect on their performance. Cause differences in the sound which can be literally millions of times larger than differences in DACs or amps. Grab a mic and take some measures, it will be pretty obvious. If you're spending $15 (EDIT: thousand, lol) on some speakers, then get a mic and work out how to set them up.... or get someone in to help. (It will make the most difference) Edited August 16, 2013 by davewantsmoore 1
davewantsmoore Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) How about those classic Tannoy dual concentric highly efficient drivers in a nice sealed box? I imagine they would do near field superbly with the point source thing and should be lively at low volumes? Anyone know? They are a good approach (dual concertric) to a point source. (Have one it's lovely)..... but not so much benefit in near field, if the speaker is at the correct listening height. A normal 2 or 3 ways speaker should have "good" horizontal dispersion characteristics..... but perhaps not good vertical dispersion. This becomes more and more important as you move backwards (and more of the off axis sound is incorporated).\ They are a good speaker though, yes. This real (main) issues will be: Bass response of speaker... is it designed to be near or far from boundaries. Direct response of speaker.... Is the direct response (without as much off axis response incorporated) "pleasant" to listen to. Some speaker are made with "funny" on axis response, which when combined with the off axis (power response) becomes "better" The trump for the above two issues..... is "are they adjustable" ?! Normally, I'd say just pick some small speaker which can work at boundaries, and with decent on axis response.... and perhaps consider a sub-woofer, with a LPF on the mains. ... but for $15K (!!!!) you have an incredible amount of scope (but difficult to integrate with pre-existing NOS1/XXhighend) Edited August 16, 2013 by davewantsmoore
ArthurDent Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Grover Notting perhaps, made for this sort of role (?)... http://www.classicaudiodesigns.com.au/universal_audio_monitors/index.php
murrmax Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Grab a mic and take some measures, it will be pretty obvious. If you're spending $15 on some speakers, then get a mic and work out how to set them up.... or get someone in to help. (It will make the most difference) +1 - in fact spend on room treatments if you are after great sound.. I'd be looking at near field active studio monitors like ATC 20's , Genelics, K+H , Events, Tannoys etc (note most pro montors have adjustable eq for placement flexibility/ fine tuning) + sub if required
henry218 Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 spiral groove sonic. if you have free space behind your desk, reflections and dips, it wont be a big deal in nearfield (1-1.5m) i can understand dave's pursuit for perfection, but we do have to deal with compromises. cheers henry
ArthurDent Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 I'd be looking at near field active studio monitors like ATC 20's , Genelics, K+H , Events, Tannoys etc (note most pro montors have adjustable eq for placement flexibility/ fine tuning) + sub if required +1 as that's an even better idea and for some gets you DSP.
hochopeper Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) For the money of xxhighend+NOS1+speakers+amps ... Dave is right on the money, there is scope for a very customised solution and the application here certainly warrants some attention to these details. I normally use headphones for listening at a desk, my comment above wasn't meant to be quite as flippant as it came out. I'd engage a guy smart with amps/electronics/DSP/computers and a guy that knows about speakers and room acoustics and get them to work as a team to build something specific to your taste/needs. There are a few of those types of people around here Edited August 16, 2013 by hochopeper
acg Posted August 16, 2013 Author Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Wow...this thread has taken off while I had some lunch. I have added some sketches to the first post so basically you will see there are two rooms that I can put my office into and if I need to I can give the near-field thing a miss. It is going to take me some time to catch up here. Dave, at present the base of my speakers are 22cm above my desk and just out of arms reach. They are front ported and it seems like I can snuggle them up against the wall without impacting the bass. Have a look at this photo with my old kit in it... I should add that they image very well, even jammed in on the brick wall like that. Edited August 16, 2013 by acg
henry218 Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 anthony, nice desktop setup . Have you considered soffit? monitors can go there to. cheers henry
acg Posted August 16, 2013 Author Posted August 16, 2013 For the money of xxhighend+NOS1+speakers+amps ... Dave is right on the money, there is scope for a very customised solution and the application here certainly warrants some attention to these details. I normally use headphones for listening at a desk, my comment above wasn't meant to be quite as flippant as it came out. I'd engage a guy smart with amps/electronics/DSP/computers and a guy that knows about speakers and room acoustics and get them to work as a team to build something specific to your taste/needs. There are a few of those types of people around here Chris, I took no issue about the headphone comment. I can't wear headphones...don't like 'em.
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