Please help - Rega P3 & Ortofon 2M Blue advice

[stimulaterex]

Hi, I took the plunge and have on order the P3 & 2M Blue. I would like your invaluable advice on whether spacers would be required for the RB303 arm please? The dealer did not seem to think spacers are required and if it turns out contrary, what effect would this have on the sound and/or could it causes damages e.g damage to the stylus etc?

thanks in advance

[Telecine]

The generally accepted view is that 2mm spacers should be used for a 2M cart on a Rega arm. You will not damage the cart however if you don't have them.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Telecine

[Anthony John Colbert]

i ran a Planar 3 and 2m blue for 18 months with no spacers and it sounded fine. However Rega carts are, iirc, 15mm from stylus to top and the the 2m range are 18mm...so a spacer would probably be a good idea. Like Telecine said, it wont damage anything but it might sound a little better running closer to parallel

[stimulaterex]

Thanks all for your help.

[cafe67]

I put a 2m black on my planar 3 and did not use spacers , sounded fine to me, better than the previous regs Elyse cartridge.

[stimulaterex]

hi, in your opinion, do you think the 2M Blue or the Elys2 is better with the P3?

[cafe67]

Too Hard to say,the rega cartridges are made for the rega turntables, the ortofon 2m series are well regarded. Perhaps the exact is the rega cartridge to go for?

Others here may be able to offer other opinions

[buddyev]

Hi,

I have a p 3 24 with an ortofon blue without the 2mm spacer. I know its recommended but there doesn't seem to be any problem — the arm seems parallel to the record and I understand that's what matters..

[Grimmie]

Is that the ultimate ideal then? to have the tonearm completely level while playing records. Is that the way to guarantee correct VTA?

[buddyev]

Is that the ultimate ideal then? to have the tonearm completely level while playing records. Is that the way to guarantee correct VTA?

I don't know — is it wrong? what's your view?

[buddyev]

I should expand on what I said before and not pass on what may be bad advice. I'm new to TTs so this is the experience of a beginner. I bought the Rega p3 24 earlier this year and intended to go for a rega cartridge for ease of set up but was persuaded by people i respect to go for the Ortofon 2m blue. I asked the same questions at the store — a rega dealer—as you are asking re the 2mm spacer, they said it wasn't necessary. As the Rega doesn't have VTA adjustment its the spacer or nothing I think.

My system sounds good to me‚ but the only A/B comparison I have is with my Rega dac. My sense of it is that any differences are to do with the different character of the media and not due to any problems with the set up of the TT. I'm sure it can be improved, maybe the 2mm spacer would make a difference, I don't know, but it sounds pretty good to me without it. 

Edited August 18, 2013 by buddyev

[cheekyboy]

I don't know — is it wrong? what's your view?

 

I don't think you're wrong in doing that, Russ. If you get the centre line of the tonearm parallel to the playing surface, you'll be doing as most cartridge manufacturers recommend. Others will want to lecture you on setting correct VTA, but it does take a fair movement at the tonearm base to achieve even 1 deg of difference, in either direction, at the stylus. You'll need a microscope to set the SRA accurately and I'm guessing you don't own one of those?

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

[buddyev]

Thanks for the confirmation, Keith.

It did occur to me that I shouldn't be giving advice on stuff I don't know anything about, but I've just gone the same route on TTs as the OP so it seemed worthwhile passing that on.

 

Russ

Edited August 18, 2013 by buddyev

[bebop]

For Rega arms, would setting the top of the arm parallel to the record be the best way? I ask this as the Rega armtube is tapered (narrower at the head shell and getting thicker going towards the bearing).

 

I get a bit confused with the very different views about VTA that I've read. So, for the moment, I use the top of the armtube as reference for being parallel to the record, and then listening with changes to the VTA up and down until it sounds "good" to my ears.

[buddyev]

Hi Bebop,

 

I don't think you should use the top of the tapered tube as reference, I think you have to imagine a central line running up through the length of the tube - that would be the critical parallel line.

But not really sure how this is relevant anyway. Can I ask how you're adjusting the VTA? I thought the only way to adjust VTA was using spacers?

Do you mean the VTF — the knob on the side of the arm? I think that's just to be set at 1.75 and then left alone isn't it?

 

I set mine up from scratch using the basic Rega set up instructions. It is my first TT and I wasn't confident I'd got everything right so I checked the tracking weight using a digital stylus gauge — but it was pretty much right just by using the floating arm test. Makes me think that these Regas are hard to get wrong but easy to overthink.

Russ

Edited August 18, 2013 by buddyev

[cheekyboy]

For Rega arms, would setting the top of the arm parallel to the record be the best way? I ask this as the Rega armtube is tapered (narrower at the head shell and getting thicker going towards the bearing).

 

I get a bit confused with the very different views about VTA that I've read. So, for the moment, I use the top of the armtube as reference for being parallel to the record, and then listening with changes to the VTA up and down until it sounds "good" to my ears.

 

Hi Bebop,

 

Probably using the centre line on a tapered tonearm being parallel to the record surface would be more accurate, but using the top surface as parallel will give you a base down VTA setting and you are in most cases approaching more accurate by going in that direction.

 

There are many things that will cause variation in VTA, including changing the height of the tonearm base, but you'll need to change that by around 12mm - 15mm to get a change in VTA of 1 deg. You can get the same degree of change in VTA by having a change in air temperature, or by altering even slightly, the VTF of your cartridge. When you factor in as well the variation in the way that records are cut and the variation in VTA between different cartridge manufacturers, it hardly makes it worth while worrying about a 1 deg - 2 deg variation in VTA.

 

You should use a good protractor to set your cartridge alignment, set the centre line of your tonearm parallel to the record surface [or in your case the top surface of the arm], set your VTF at or within 20% of the manufacturer's recommendation and just sit back and enjoy your records.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Edited August 18, 2013 by cheekyboy

[bebop]

Yes, after seeing a mates SME 309, that has a center line on its armtube, I'm thinking that's what I should be doing. Finding and following an unmarked center line on a Rega armtube maybe and interesting exercise though.

 

I use the plastic Rega spacer for the RB301. It was cheap (around $20) and easy to use once installed. There is another option for spacers that seem even easier from Acoustic Signature, as they don't require to completely remove the arm for installation. But are more expensive (around $60+).

 

I also quite like the setup tips from MintLP. Mainly because its simple enough for me to understand execute. I've tired my 2M Bronze on 4mm and 2mm and prefer the 2mm. Bass was a bit better at 2mm to me.

 

I also use a digital stylus gauge for VTF.

 

Thanks for the information Keith. I'm looking for "better" protractors. Still can't decide between the MintLP, Avid (for Rega arms) Protractor, or some other protractor. I'm currently using the printed protractor that comes with the HiFi News Test LP, and haven't had any issues using it so far.

Edited August 18, 2013 by bebop

[cheekyboy]

Hi bebop,

 

Yeah, my SME V has the centre line marked on it as well, which makes life easier for setting the arm parallel to the playing surface, but I guess what I was getting at above really is, all those little changes in VTA are going to make a poofteenth's difference and to make any changes over 1 - 2 deg in VTA, is going to require fairly radical changes in the height of the tonearm base. Better to get it right [as close as practical] in the first place and concentrate on just enjoying the music.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

[bebop]

Good point Keith.

 

Enjoying music has never been a problem . Although, trying to find the time to sit and listen lately has been .