valvelover Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Since the copyright act in Australia allows us to make backup copies of software and /or music for backup purposes, and since the DMCA is NOT legal in Australia (if you wanna argue that it is, please show me where it's been passed through both the house of reps & senate and went to the governor general and been given royal assent by the queen!), then aren't formats such as blu ray, dvd-a & SACD illegal by not allowing consumers the right or ability to make a backup copy? Just a thought being thrown out there to the community. i'm a firm believer that our government(s) allow businesses too much leeway and allow them to screw over us, the people (their customers). Dave
GregWormald Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 As far as I know (but I haven't really researched it) we are not specifically allowed to make backups of music, although the US is. We are allowed to backup computer programs. Greg
LogicprObe Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 I thought it was allowed in America, but not in Australia.
valvelover Posted August 10, 2013 Author Posted August 10, 2013 As far as I know (but I haven't really researched it) we are not specifically allowed to make backups of music, although the US is. We are allowed to backup computer programs. Greg Well, isn't that well, hypocritical? I mean, computer programs are on digital media (disc - CD or DVD), as is movies and music (quite often the same media type). If it applies to one, then it should apply to all, just by simple logic. Of course, we all know that the music and movie industry has a get out of jail free card that allows them to do whatever they like and it's that that really irks me. Laws should be equal and they are not. Dave
Briz Vegas Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) The law is a ass. Edited August 10, 2013 by Briz Vegas
betty boop Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) its actually otherway around where its illegal in the us what your suggesting but completely legal to make copies in australia. as long as for yourself and you own the originals in your possesion. you can lend to family members or people in the household but thats the limit of it. there are specific pdf fact sheets on this on the australian copyright website wiht regards CD/dvds/LPs etc. its a complete nonsense argument that just because they allow you to copy cds that you have to be able to copy a sacd. it just says you can, it doesnt say you have to be able to do so ! keeping in mind copying a sacd might involve taking its signal via analog outputs and using A/D to make a digital file just as would with an LP. wiht blu-rays you can use programs like dvd-fab to rip to iso files. theres nothing in the law stopping you in doing this. Edited August 10, 2013 by :) al
Guest fordgtlover Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) As stated by Al, in Australia it is perfectly legal to take a copy (or format-shifting) of your CD and to share them with immediate family while ever you retain the original copy of the media (or licence). The Copyright Act 1968 allows copying in different forms for personal use (Section 43C). The Copyright Amendment Act 2006 strengthened the restrictions around circumventing electronic protection (Section 132AQ). The net result is that you can copy CDs or DVDs for your own use (or to share with your family), but you cannot circumvent copy protection, which essentially means that you can't copy DVDs because you need to circumvent the copy protection before you can copy it. http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2006A00158 http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2010C00476 As to the issue of the DCMA's legal status in Australia, the Copyright Amendment Act 2006 has a considerable amount of input from the DCMA, which was all part of the negotiations on the FTA with the US. The Copyright Amendment Act 2006 is Australian law. Edited August 11, 2013 by fordgtlover
davewantsmoore Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 since the DMCA is NOT legal in Australia (if you wanna argue that it is, please show me where it's been passed through both the house of reps & senate and went to the governor general and been given royal assent by the queen!), Copyright Amendment Act 2006 has a considerable amount of input from the DCMA, which was all part of the negotiations on the FTA with the US. The Copyright Amendment Act 2006 is Australian law. Correct. We have DMCA with a different name. http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/num_act/caa2006213/
davewantsmoore Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 then aren't formats such as blu ray, dvd-a & SACD illegal by not allowing consumers the right or ability to make a backup copy? There is no legal obligation for them to "enable" you to make a copy... only the legal obligation for you not to circumvent any 'technological protection measures'.
davewantsmoore Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 i'm a firm believer that our government(s) allow businesses too much leeway and allow them to screw over us, the people (their customers). I agree very much.
Guest fordgtlover Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 Since the copyright act in Australia allows us to make backup copies of software and /or music for backup purposes, and since the DMCA is NOT legal in Australia (if you wanna argue that it is, please show me where it's been passed through both the house of reps & senate and went to the governor general and been given royal assent by the queen!), then aren't formats such as blu ray, dvd-a & SACD illegal by not allowing consumers the right or ability to make a backup copy? Just a thought being thrown out there to the community. i'm a firm believer that our government(s) allow businesses too much leeway and allow them to screw over us, the people (their customers). Dave Though, the Courts often find that big business don't always act appropriately. Sony lost the PS1 modding trial with the Judge saying that the region zoning was nothing to do with piracy and all to do with big business carefully manipulating the market by releasing titles in a staged manner (my summary). Presumably, someone could take a DVD studio to court and argue that the use of copy protection prevents a consumer from exercising their rights under the Copyright Act 1968. Does anyone know of a person being prosecuted for circumventing the copy protection on a DVD?
GregWormald Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 As stated by Al, in Australia it is perfectly legal to take a copy (or format-shifting) of your CD and to share them with immediate family while ever you retain the original copy of the media (or licence). The Copyright Act 1968 allows copying in different forms for personal use (Section 43C). The Copyright Amendment Act 2006 strengthened the restrictions around circumventing electronic protection (Section 132AQ). The net result is that you can copy CDs or DVDs for your own use (or to share with your family), but you cannot circumvent copy protection, which essentially means that you can't copy DVDs because you need to circumvent the copy protection before you can copy it. http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2006A00158 http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2010C00476 As to the issue of the DCMA's legal status in Australia, the Copyright Amendment Act 2006 has a considerable amount of input from the DCMA, which was all part of the negotiations on the FTA with the US. The Copyright Amendment Act 2006 is Australian law. All that is pretty clear--thanks for those links. I wonder why some of the 'legal' sites have it wrong. As far as copy protection goes, it appears that reproducing the article (for private domestic use) with the copy protection intact is OK. I'm sure some of the cloning applications do this. Greg
betty boop Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 anyone know what happenend to the accc's investigation into region coding ? at one stage their view (alan fells) was that it was anti competitive but not anything ever came of that !
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 Since the copyright act in Australia allows us to make backup copies of software and /or music for backup purposes, and since the DMCA is NOT legal in Australia (if you wanna argue that it is, please show me where it's been passed through both the house of reps & senate and went to the governor general and been given royal assent by the queen!), then aren't formats such as blu ray, dvd-a & SACD illegal by not allowing consumers the right or ability to make a backup copy? Just a thought being thrown out there to the community. i'm a firm believer that our government(s) allow businesses too much leeway and allow them to screw over us, the people (their customers). Dave I suggest you read the Copyright Act very carefully. Australians have no right to make a copy of copyright material.
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 its actually otherway around where its illegal in the us what your suggesting but completely legal to make copies in australia. as long as for yourself and you own the originals in your possesion. you can lend to family members or people in the household but thats the limit of it. there are specific pdf fact sheets on this on the australian copyright website wiht regards CD/dvds/LPs etc. its a complete nonsense argument that just because they allow you to copy cds that you have to be able to copy a sacd. it just says you can, it doesnt say you have to be able to do so ! keeping in mind copying a sacd might involve taking its signal via analog outputs and using A/D to make a digital file just as would with an LP. wiht blu-rays you can use programs like dvd-fab to rip to iso files. theres nothing in the law stopping you in doing this. Incorrect. Australians are forbidden to make ANY copies of copyright material, unless they have permission from the copyright holder/s.
comfortablynumb Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 anyone know what happenend to the accc's investigation into region coding ? at one stage their view (alan fells) was that it was anti competitive but not anything ever came of that ! region coding has no base in law. Most DVD players came be "unlocked" to be multi-region players. Simply Google "make/model unlock region" and you will likely find a code for your machine. For example, the code for my DVD player is power on/drawer open/enter 99990/OK/power off/power on. All perfectly legal because there is no law supporting regional coding.
betty boop Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 region coding has no base in law. Most DVD players came be "unlocked" to be multi-region players. Simply Google "make/model unlock region" and you will likely find a code for your machine. For example, the code for my DVD player is power on/drawer open/enter 99990/OK/power off/power on. All perfectly legal because there is no law supporting regional coding. it never had basis from day one. the 1st gen tosh dvd player I purchased I was offered it out of box region free. and every dvd player and blu-ray player I've bot ever since has been region free for dvd. blu-ray seems another matter where all players are sold region locks and have to pay for mod kits to have them disabled. which is a bloody pain. they are also not region free but region selectable which is also a pain in use. hence wondered whether the accc might have come to a conclusion. it would be great if they had indeed decided it was anti competition as makes harder for people to buy discs from over seas
comfortablynumb Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 it never had basis from day one. the 1st gen tosh dvd player I purchased I was offered it out of box region free. and every dvd player and blu-ray player I've bot ever since has been region free for dvd. blu-ray seems another matter where all players are sold region locks and have to pay for mod kits to have them disabled. which is a bloody pain. they are also not region free but region selectable which is also a pain in use. hence wondered whether the accc might have come to a conclusion. it would be great if they had indeed decided it was anti competition as makes harder for people to buy discs from over seas Not "region free" but "multi-region" With my machine the last digit denotes the region. A digit of "0" selects multi-region. This is what I have done so I don't need to change constantly. Which would be a PITA..... I have no idea about Blu-ray region coding.
betty boop Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) Not "region free" but "multi-region" With my machine the last digit denotes the region. A digit of "0" selects multi-region. This is what I have done so I don't need to change constantly. Which would be a PITA..... I have no idea about Blu-ray region coding. yeah every dvd.blu-ray player have bought never had to select region or even had to worry about it for DVD. but yeah blu-ray discs you have to purchase a player thats been modded or purchase an aftermarket mod and have fitted. no manufacturer will supply with region coding on blu-ray bypassed. and its a pita as even with mod kit you have to use a remote sequence and re power the machine to select region code of blu-ray disc want to play. doesnt make for very family friendly in use. where people just want to fire up the system pop in a disc in and play. forces me to buy local blu-ray player and local or uk/region free blu-ray discs. Edited August 11, 2013 by :) al
davewantsmoore Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 All perfectly legal because there is no law supporting regional coding. Your cause and effect is wrong. The reason why they are allowed to use "region coding" ... and why you can "region free" your player in the way you have .... is because there are no laws preventing either. 1
davewantsmoore Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 I suggest you read the Copyright Act very carefully. Australians have no right to make a copy of copyright material. Incorrect. Australians are forbidden to make ANY copies of copyright material, unless they have permission from the copyright holder/s. ZB the links which were already posted in this thread show you to be incorrect.
davewantsmoore Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 anyone know what happenend to the accc's investigation into region coding ? at one stage their view (alan fells) was that it was anti competitive but not anything ever came of that ! Not sure. I think the problem went away with most players being region free now. There were only considering if region locked players (not media) was anti-competetive IIRC
Guest fordgtlover Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 This site offers a really nice summary of what you can and can't with music under copyright:: http://www.musicrights.com.au/fact-sheets/formatshifting/
betty boop Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 Not sure. I think the problem went away with most players being region free now. There were only considering if region locked players (not media) was anti-competetive IIRC maybe your thinking of dvd players but "most blu-ray players" are NOT region free now. its quite the opposite with regard blu-ray. every single player sold in this country is not region free and neither is any player sold overseas. as mentioned you can buy mod kits and either fit yourself or get fitted or buy a modded player. none of which is supported by manufacturer. and even this case it wont be region free it would be region selectable with all modded players needing a key code via remote and reboot sequence everytime you want to select a region. region coding on blu-ray is definitely anti competitive. most people buying your typical player from the shops cant buy blu-ray discs from overseas as they wont work. whether the accc has any interest or the power to do anything about it is a completely another matter.
davewantsmoore Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 maybe your thinking of dvd players but "most blu-ray players" are NOT region free now. its quite the opposite with regard blu-ray Yes, I understand this. What I was attempting to say, that the ACCC were looking at region locked players for anti-competitiveness. They stopped looking because most (DVD) players became "region free". Perhaps they need to look again.
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