ellrotts Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Chaps, Attempting to do some research on ME amps, Namely the 1400 & 1500. Zaph tells me there is a throng of happy ME owners in Aus. Google wont share any info. Anyone out there kind enough to share their opinion on these Amps Or how they possibly pair with B&W 802d's? Good and bad opinions appreciated. Thanks
Orpheus Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I have an ME750. I have Quad ESL2905s, and I am very happy with the way it drives them. I have had much more expensive amps which do not do as good a job. The ME850 is supposedly better than the ME750. You need a preamp with low output impedance. An ME preamp is the answer, as they are very good value for money. In order to know what you are doing, ask ZB, he really does know his stuff. With the preamps, the ME14, ME15, ME24, and ME25 are essentially the same in terms of sound quality. However, Peter Stein worked on the design of the preamp over the years, and the later the preamp, the better. ZB is the best source of info on this. 1
ellrotts Posted July 1, 2013 Author Posted July 1, 2013 I have had a good chat with ZB re ME amps etc, Im looking to "validate" his opinion basically. ( No offense Intended Zaphrod) One person raving about a product while there is basically no information on the internet about the Amps does not mean they are good amps unfortunately. Im hoping some of the ME owners are hidden in the woodwork here and like yourself Orph are willing to share.
georgehifi Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) An Me is your answer with these as they will like an amp with good current drive, I would be on the search for an ME750 850, 1400 or 1500 depending on budget. Cheers George "The B&W's impedance plot (fig.1) reveals the speaker to be moderately difficult to drive, with a magnitude that drops to 3 ohms throughout the upper bass and an awkward combination of 4 ohms and –50° electrical phase angle at 60Hz." Edited July 1, 2013 by georgehifi 2
Orpheus Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I have had a good chat with ZB re ME amps etc, Im looking to "validate" his opinion basically. ( No offense Intended Zaphrod) One person raving about a product while there is basically no information on the internet about the Amps does not mean they are good amps unfortunately. Im hoping some of the ME owners are hidden in the woodwork here and like yourself Orph are willing to share. Yes, I understand your scepticism. I listened to one, which dealt with any scepticism on my part. I was very surprised. 1
ellrotts Posted July 1, 2013 Author Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Im inclined to say the 1500 as I do like to crank the volume a bit. Im concerned about the age, 15 years old is getting a bit vintage, class A amps would have had more then enough time to cook themselves pretty well in that amount of time. Anyone know what they sold for new back in the day? Do they exhibit a sonic character? anything Individual about them? Edited July 1, 2013 by ellrotts
vmhf Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I am truly blown away by my ME 550mk2 HiCap. Put up against my Vitus SIA-025 amp the ME is not at all embarassed. Mind you the Vitus is easiliy the best amp I have owned and costs 20 times more than the ME
Art Vandelay Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Chaps, Attempting to do some research on ME amps, Namely the 1400 & 1500. Zaph tells me there is a throng of happy ME owners in Aus. Google wont share any info. Anyone out there kind enough to share their opinion on these Amps Or how they possibly pair with B&W 802d's? Good and bad opinions appreciated. Thanks I own a 75B as well as a 150. These amps are predecessors to the 850 and 1500 respectively. They're both excellent but are obviously inferior to the latter designs. That said, even the smaller 75 has no problems driving my difficult load Infinity's and it delivers outstanding top to bottom performance, excellent dynamics and a vast sound-stage. I haven't heard the combo, but personally I think the 1400 / 1500 would be perfect partnered with 802D's, mainly because those speakers need an amp capable of controlling that low end , which can all too easily tend to sound overly bloated. Nice speakers BTW. As it happens I recently ordered a pair of 800 Diamonds (in piano black). They arrive next week and I'll be experimenting with a number of power amps, including my ME's to find a best fit combination. Hopefully there's someone on SNA who does have first hand experience with your exact combination, but either way I'll let you know how my ME amps sound and compare with my other reference amps driving the 800's, given that they present a similarly difficult reactive load to the amplifier.
Art Vandelay Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Im inclined to say the 1500 as I do like to crank the volume a bit. Im concerned about the age, 15 years old is getting a bit vintage, class A amps would have had more then enough time to cook themselves pretty well in that amount of time. Anyone know what they sold for new back in the day? Do they exhibit a sonic character? anything Individual about them? Depending on when last serviced you might need the rail decoupling caps replaced as well as bias check and adjust. This thread may also be of interest: http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/48322-me-75-amplifier-output-transistor-replacement/
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I have had a good chat with ZB re ME amps etc, Im looking to "validate" his opinion basically. ( No offense Intended Zaphrod) One person raving about a product while there is basically no information on the internet about the Amps does not mean they are good amps unfortunately. Im hoping some of the ME owners are hidden in the woodwork here and like yourself Orph are willing to share. No offense taken. You should always listen for yourself and NEVER take the opinion of one person (particularly one who is heavily biased) as gospel. 7
Guest yamaha_man Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I ran 2 ME550II Hi-Caps bridged for years, they drove Wilson Audio WATT/Puppy 6's. Did a good job, I would go further up the food chain if ME was used again in my system. BTW Trevor knows his sh!t with ME.
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Im inclined to say the 1500 as I do like to crank the volume a bit. Im concerned about the age, 15 years old is getting a bit vintage, class A amps would have had more then enough time to cook themselves pretty well in that amount of time. Anyone know what they sold for new back in the day? Do they exhibit a sonic character? anything Individual about them? The ME1500 is a little different to most high end amps, in that it is fan cooled. The fans suck cooing air past the main filter caps (thus keeping them cool at all times) and then across the driver boards (thus keeping those components cool) and finally through the main output device heat sinks. The fans are demand responsive (they are infinitely variable in speed and are completely silent under normal operation - unless operating at 100 Watts Class A, of course) and are controlled by an optical tachometer, plus two temperature sensors, which maintains the output devices at a constant 60 degrees Celcius, regardless of load impedance or ambient temperature. As a final line of defence, the amplifier will shut down if the output devices reach 80 degrees C. So no, the amp cannot 'cook' itself. In fact, the constant operating temperature means that temperature swings are avoided and thus, the potential damage caused by thermal cycling of output devices is avoided. Naturally, like any amplifier, a decade or more old, I recommend that all the small electrolytic caps be replaced, as these are the only components subject to aging and heat related problems. The output devices are rated for more than one million hot/cold cycles. Assuming the amp is operated once per day, that equates to around 2,700 years life-span. The ME1500 last sold in around 2001 for $12,500.00. I'll let others comment on sonic character, but ME's designer has always attempted to build completely neutral amplifiers, which neither contribute, nor detract anything from the final result. They will accurately present whatever is on the recording.
Sam Z Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I can vouch for ME's too. I've only had the less powerful models, but even so they did a good job at driving demanding speakers. They're not the prettiest things though. 1
davewantsmoore Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) I only have experience with the 550 (low input impedance, dual mono, baby version of the 850 series) ... and the 550 Mk2 Hi-cap (high impedance, stereo). Performance of both was completely without fault. If the bigger amps sound "better", then they must surely sound wonderful. They're not the prettiest things though. I was bit "woah retro" to begin with.... but now quite like it. I don't have to look at mine all day though. Could be a bit of a problematic match for most peoples decor I guess. Edited July 1, 2013 by davewantsmoore
Guest kab Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I use a ME15 preamp and ME1400 poweramp to drive my Duntech Crown Princes. Couldn't be happier, great amps.
aechmea Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I used an ME75 (first iteration, made 1983?, very low serial number) to drive electrostatics for 25 years. I'm keeping it mainly for nostalgic reasons, but I am sure that it is still be a great little amp and maybe it will be 'refreshed' and pressed into service again one day. I always thought that the ME75 was a tiny bit 'thumpy' with box speakers (compared to planar) but that was in quite a different room and a very long time ago, and probably just a reflection of my preference for planar speakers, so hardly a worthwhile comment. I have an ME25 (with MM phono) of the same vintage that no longer is part of the system but I'm keeping that too, in case I ever dust off the TT. 1
sean Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Another ME25 pre and 850 power owner here and I am very happy with the amps. They are driving some Thiel CS5's. These speakers present a very difficult load and need an amp with decent current. The ME's are a very capable amp and would drive most speakers out there without any problems. As far as these amps being vintage, there is no need to worry as there are some very capable techs out there who can service these amps and bring them back to as good as new. You have already spoken to Zaph from the sounds of it! Cheers and good luck with your search.
Guest glakey Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) I sold my ME1500 about 18 months ago after buying it in 1987. It required a little work on it around 2010 to restore it to its former glory and cost around $3k. I have driven Ambience ribbons (1800 reference and classics) Martin Logans, Aurum Cantus Vollas, Sonique 4.5 R, Whatmough, Trevor Lees ribbons, KEF 104/2 and numerous others I cant remember. The 1500 is fast, very fast, great control with a warm sound to the bass region and a bit of an airy top end - I had previously owned a Krell KSA100 and a ML 23 prior to owning the 1500. Sold the amp and reference 1800s purely for logistical reasons - the amp had survived many moves and racked up probably 50k travelling from one side of the country to the other more times than I care to remember. I was sent to Adelaide from Canberra and after 6 weeks, back to Canberra at the end of 2011 start of 2012 - I did not want to do another move with the amp and speakers - so for the sake of convenience (and peace of mind) I sold the amp and speakers and got into some SGR CX3Bs to go with the VAF SW 19 - I'm now suffering sellers remorse.... the SGRs are a magic little speaker, I just miss the little green lights on the 1500 telling me just how much the power company was going to love me that quarter...... I hope Peter speeds up Stein time and brings out some new products - last time I spoke with him he mentioned maybe mono-blocks for the 1400/1500 replacements as he was getting too old to lift the 54kg of the 1500 in one chassis. Speak with ZB about sourcing an ME, my dealings with him have been nothing short of excellent, however remember to listen for yourself - it is your money so the opinions of others are just that, opinions. Regards, George. Edited July 1, 2013 by glakey
unclemack Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I'm running an ME75 to drive my Infinity RS4.5s. These monsters can dip down to .75 Ohm in the bass and are famous for cooking big Krells and the like but this little 75 just handles everything so well. I'd love a big 1500 to drive my bottom end but as it is, the 75 is doing a sterling job. Everything ZB assured me of has proven correct. Go for it! Cheers M
Jake Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I started with a 550 II hi capped. Then bought 2 more! Then went late model 850 for a while, but now run a 25/1500 combo. The sound just got better with each upgrade. Can't see me changing any time soon
ellrotts Posted July 1, 2013 Author Posted July 1, 2013 well then, t'would appear there are a few fans out there. Thanks for the Opinions, keep em coming!! they all get read and are appreciated
brownemi Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I heard recently an ME 750 and was pleasantly surprised at how good it sounded, SS and all. Dumbstruck for me, smart struck for the owner. I can understand why people downsize from a cost point of view with their "hi end" amps to get these well priced second hand gear that has awesome sound and if need be.....ongoing service/ repair options. Sell the Krell and invest the rest in more music, and then wine to enjoy it..........I say!
THOMO Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) My Sonique Encore SE Speakers seem to have a pretty similar impedance dip to the 802s.A pig of a load really.They dip to under 3 ohms quite broadly around the 200 Hz mark. I tried a lot of different amps with them and many in the 150 watts into 8 ohm were driven into clipping. The bigger MEs would probably be fine but suspect that even the 850 might struggle a bit. The Usher 1.5 might be worth a try if you can't get an appropriate ME.That is what I have ended up using.They deliver 500 watts into 1 ohm and seem to handle the low impedance well and there is always the option of buying another one and biamping or bridging for a lot more power.They sound great too.I usually dislike the sound of SS amps but the Ushers I can live with. Edited July 1, 2013 by THOMO
davewantsmoore Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 The bigger MEs would probably be fine but suspect that even the 850 might struggle a bit. Why? It's specs say it can drive a 1ohm load... unless you are planning to use more than it's rated power at the load, then!???
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) The bigger MEs would probably be fine but suspect that even the 850 might struggle a bit. No. Perhaps I should elaborate: The ME850 possesses the following characteristics: * 12 X 20 Amp (or 12 X 30 Amp, depending on model) output devices per channel. * 245,000uF (450,000uF, depending on model) capacitance * 2,500VA power transformer * 70 Amps rated output current capacity All of which means that ANY load impedance down to around 0.5 Ohms will cause zero problems with the ME850. 3 Ohms is a walk in the park. Even better, if current limiting does occur (unlikely, but possible) the current limiters are outside the influence of a negative feedback (unheard of in almost any SS amp) and thus the action of the current limiters is gentle and barely audible. Unless prodigious Voltage swings are required, the ME850 will run any loudspeaker satisfactorily. Edited July 1, 2013 by Zaphod Beeblebrox
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