Kaynin Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 Howdy folks, I'm researching digital sources, and not sure exactly which direction I should be sticking my nose. Right now my digital source is an external HD into PS3 and is therefore the weak link, so has to be improved. I won't be doing any critical listening with this set-up (that will be in a system in a completely different room down the track) but there will be plenty of times I will be sitting and listening to music. The source is to go into my NAD T787-Osborn Eclipses. I'm after a good balance of spend and SQ on the level of this set-up, and something with an internal HDD would be great (this includes a NAS) but I do have an external HD that I can connect if the USB specs are 24/192. Also, I don't want to have to have my PC turned on just to listen to music. Ease of use is important (WAF). My budget is up to $2k. No CD stand-alone players, and DAB/internet radio is a bonus. This is where I'm at: Marantz NA7004 & CA SM6 & NAD M51 are in the picture. Not sure if the Marantz & CA are long in the tooth now and other products have passed them, and not sure if the NAD connectivity will suit what I'm after. I haven't ruled the Olive One out at this stage, it has plenty of features that are appealing - except the analog outs (3.5mm) and power plug pack. On these issues - * Does the 3.5mm analog jacks really affect the SQ that much??? * Does the proposed power jack set-up affect the performance of the unit that much??? * What about the coax connector - would this be a better option than the 3.5mm's? * With the new specs to light, is this unit now just an entry level device? Opinions and advice would be appreciated.
Juicester Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 your best bet from an Olive one, would be digital out into a stand alone Dac. That being the case, you could pick up the NAD51 in the classifieds ($1100), with an Olive 1 - and come in under budget....
Kaynin Posted June 28, 2013 Author Posted June 28, 2013 Thanks Juice, I was concerned I would be looking at a second unit to solve the output situation with the One. I'm trying to keep it a single box solution for this set-up, user friendliness is important and I see it as a bit of a waste having two high quality DACs when I might be able to get just one. The One into the NAD would be a nice set-up though, no doubting that, will keep it in mind because it may end up being the best option. I saw the 51 in the classifieds, unfortunately I won't be buying for 3-4 months, just doing research right now. I don't have any issues going 2nd hand if it's in EC though, so suggestions along those lines will be taken into account. Am happy to wait for the right product so I get it right.
Juicester Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 problem is, none of the streamers have decent dacs unless you start heading into the higher end territory with the likes of Naim etc... The DAC in the One would be obliterated by the NAD DAC....
Kaynin Posted June 28, 2013 Author Posted June 28, 2013 The DAC in the One would be obliterated by the NAD DAC.... Does that mean the SQ output from the NAD will be 100%, or would the One negatively affect it to start with and the NAD can only do with what it's given?
Juicester Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Does that mean the SQ output from the NAD will be 100%, or would the One negatively affect it to start with and the NAD can only do with what it's given? This is somewhat above my head, but whilst the NAD would be at 100% when connected to the Olive, you can however squeeze more than 100% (i.e. lift its out of the box performance) through the implementation of a reclocking device, like an Audiophilleo. That increases your box count again (doh!) but one of the biggest issues with DACS is their inability to effectively reduce jitter between source (Laptop/Squeezebox/Olive) and DAC. For instance, I use an Audio GD DI, in-between my Squeezebox and DAC - and it does help clean up the performance marginally (although some swear that high-end reclocking devices like the OffRamp, make a HUGE improvement). Edited June 28, 2013 by Juicester
Kaynin Posted June 28, 2013 Author Posted June 28, 2013 Ok, thanks Juice, that's given me a little more to consider, I wasn't aware that there was an issue there. Why isn't there ever a simple, easy solution?!?! Thanks for your time.
Bell Ringer Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 Hi Kaynin, I'm looking at a similar set-up for myself at the moment. The Olive's look great for simplicity but I think I'll go with a Vortexbox ($350-$700 ish depending on upgrades) with a USB/SPDIF converter (possibly a Stello U3 on sale for $300) into my DAC/CD. That combo of the Vortexbox & a convertor would leave you with $1000+ for your DAC and something like the Metrum Octave in the SNA classifieds would be a winner at $750 and leave some change for cables. Or the NAD as posted or a DAC with decent USB input. Lots of options in the DAC market at the moment but finding the one that suits is always the issue. Good luck, I'll be interested to see what you end up with.
Bell Ringer Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 Sorry, Just realised you wanted a one-box solution. Maybe an Olive is the way to go.
Kaynin Posted June 29, 2013 Author Posted June 29, 2013 G'day BR, Am keen on a one box solution for simplicity and WAF, but if the best result will mean an extra 1 or 2, then that's ok I can handle that, I just want to get it right. The SQ is important to me, and ease of use is important for WAF. Thanks for suggesting the Vortexbox & Stello combo, haven't come across them before so will check them out.
Grainy Posted June 29, 2013 Posted June 29, 2013 I'm currently listening to music streaming through my NA7004. If you feel like a drive to Coburg you're welcome to come by for a listen. I also have an Audio GD digital interface and a couple of external DAC's to compare with. Just me and the dog home today.
Kaynin Posted June 29, 2013 Author Posted June 29, 2013 G'day Grainy, thanks for the very generous offer mate, I appreciate it. I have access to a NA7004 in Afrangastan, which is closer to where I live, plus I'm unfortunately working this weekend anyway. I'll keep in mind the offer though because you mentioned that you have a couple of DAC's... Is the Audio GD just to re-clock and reduce jitter, or are there other benefits?
Grainy Posted June 29, 2013 Posted June 29, 2013 I use the Audio GD DI between my PC and DAC mainly for the reclock, better USB input and noise (galvanic?) isolation it has over my main DAC.
Addicted to music Posted June 29, 2013 Posted June 29, 2013 Hi Grainy, What other dacs in your possession have you compared to the 7004? Just interested on how they compared?
Grainy Posted June 29, 2013 Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) My above comment were theoretical as I have always just used the internal DAC of the 7004, so I just had a play. Firstly, my Audio GD DI won't work in this situation, only has USB input. So I connected my Havana NOS DAC and then the WM8740 based DAC to the NA7004s Digital Out but neither of them detect signal. Can't nut out why......hmmmmm both DACs have a maximum input frequency of 96khz but the NA7004 is capable of outputting 192khz, could it be upsampling? A quick Google indicates the Cirrus Logic CS4396 can do this as part of it's recommended output filter. Just guessing though. Edited June 29, 2013 by Grainy
Grainy Posted June 29, 2013 Posted June 29, 2013 Pchan, I have a preference to the Havana DAC (upgraded output caps and Japanese K versions of the PCM56p chips) connected to a PC running J River via Audio GD DI. The Marantz DAC is good, more detailed than the Havana, good soundstage, but can get a bit shouty at times, something I'm sensitive to. Its the same DAC chip in the Marantz SA-KI Perl SACD Player....but I like the slightly more laid back, textured sound of the Havana. Hope that helps somewhat. 1
Jventer Posted June 29, 2013 Posted June 29, 2013 Consonance Speak to Greg The Reference 7 or D linear 7
Kaynin Posted June 29, 2013 Author Posted June 29, 2013 Thanks for reminding me Jv, I'll shoot him an email. I forgot he carries digital gear.
Jventer Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 That Ref7 looks nice. Weighs in at 18kgs!!!Maybe to good to just listen to music sometimes. What is your budget?
Kaynin Posted June 30, 2013 Author Posted June 30, 2013 Yeah, seeking a good balance of spend. I'm happy to spend up to $2k. I don't want to go overboard, my amp cost me $3200, so am keeping that in perspective - and this set-up won't be for critical listening, that will occur in a completely different room down the track - but it doesn't mean it will only ever be background music - there will be plenty of times I'll be listening to this system. In fact, this system will be listened to the most because it's in our main living area, and I always have music on. I'm trying to balance SQ which is important for me, and user friendliness for the wife. Am also looking at the Consonance D-Linear 7, but the Ref7 has a tube output stage which would be very nice. $2,000 for the Ref7, and Greg has a D-Linear 7 for $800. At the end of the day, like everything, if I don't get it right now, then I will regret it. I sent Tasso a PM because he has the Ref7, just inquiring about the iPhone app. I read the Ref7 manual - the cataloging and searching of music doesn't appear to be the best (very similar to the PS3), but if the app is excellent then the GUI won't even be used. The new Olive 4HD is due out soon, so am considering that as well. That is listed at $USD1500, so who knows what price it will be at this end. Maybe Olive ONE using optical out and forget about the analog 3.5mm all together. At $550 for 1TB it may be a good solution - appears very user friendly.
TP1 Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) I can recommend the Opera consonance Reference 7. I have one and am very pleased with its performance. It utilizes high quality audio grade power supplies and it's DAC is from their top line CD players. Its very well built and can be controlled by IPhone/iPad/android apps, it's own remote control or via the inbuilt touch screen. Sound quality is excellent and better than most DACs I have compared it to including Moon 300d, Shanling Cd-t100 (new model) and Audio Gd. It was not quite as good as the DAC in the Accuphase DP-700, but then again the Accuphase has an RRP of around $25k. The ref 7 is a bargain IMO, in that Greg Osborne's prices are as good as or better than anything in the world for Opera Consonance gear - a far cry from other distributors who simply double the price for Aussie customers. It is also excellent value when you compare buying a top shelf DAC, interface and dedicated computer for audio, but it is way better built and easier to use. You cannot get the same sound quality from a Squeezebox touch or similar irrespective of the DAC used because those devices sound veiled and less dynamic when compared directly to the Ref 7. Edited June 30, 2013 by Tasso
Jventer Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 In the last three years I went through so much equipment - I would have loved to keep most of them, but any budget stop somewhere. One of these was a Cambridge Audio 651 BD player. I was very angry for not buying the 751BD or an Oppo but that is how one learn. The 651 was really a pleasure to use, so I can just imagine how much better the 751 etc is. The reason I am typing this is that if you are interested in multichannel with your nice surround system I would consider a player that can do that. The Oppo 105 for example still has analogue out. So you can do streaming, cd,sacd,blu ray, stereo, multichannel all from one box. I have not heard Oppo players so unfortunately cannot give an opinion.
Kaynin Posted June 30, 2013 Author Posted June 30, 2013 Jv - sorry, I should have clarified in the post. I'm after a digital source for 2 channel. I'll get an Oppo 103 for BD, but looking for a solution to 2 channel that is very user friendly. I was originally looking at the Oppo 105 for music as well, but had received advice that there are other dedicated units that will be easier to use. So it will be a 103, plus a dedicated music player. Thanks for the reply Tasso, that's excellent to hear, I'm really starting to lean in that direction. How is the music indexing? Can you search by artist as well as album etc?
TP1 Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 The Reference 7 has superior DAC to the D-Linear 7 (which works best with the separate consonance DAC). At $1850 delivered it is pretty hard to beat as it has even higher grade power supplies and tube output as well. Greg Osborne also has a return policy if you are not happy with it.
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