In home DAC auditions in Melbourne

[gavtron]

I have been looking for a new DAC and thought I would post some impressions as reading reviews and chatting to forum members has been very helpful, so I decided to try and give something back..

 

My rig is made up of LCD-3 headphones and a DNA Stratus 2A3 amp.  These are both keepers that have made me stop looking at other headphones and amps.  I want to find an “end game†dac that does the other bits of gear justice and stops me spending cash and churning through gear!  I have owned the AudioGD ref 5 & Ref 7 previously.  These are great units and I actually prefer the old Ref 7 to the 7.1 and the master 7 as both of those newer models seem a bit “clinical†to me.

 

I sold my Ref 7 and picked up an AR DAC8 from a member on SNA.

 

Having been impressed by the lampi level 3 at a friend’s house, I organised to audition it at my place vs. my old AR DAC8 – I liked the mids of the lampi more than the DAC 8 but there was a slight sibilance in the level 3 presentation that I wasn’t feeling.  Luckily I was able to sit in during an audition of a PDX level 2 vs. Lampi level 3 and Lampi level 4. I thought both the Lampi’s bested the PDX and also found out that the level 4 didn’t have the sibilance I was hearing with the level 3.  It also costs around $2k more.

 

So then my budget was re adjusted to cover the cost of the Level 4 Lampizator, I decided to look around a bit more at which other options were at a similar price point.  There were a few on my list that I was unable to have a listen to without buying first (either in the wrong state or country) – the M2Tech Vaughan, Calyx Femto DAC, Empirical Overdrive and on Nada’s recommendation the Audial Model S USB, which seems to fly under the radar as far as reviews go.

 

I wanted to hear as many DAC’s as possible with my own gear – a lot of places in Melbourne are reluctant to have items leave the shop – fair enough - Fortunately there are some great local dealers who offer in home auditions of some very nice gear!

 

Richard from Audio Salon (Lampizator), Tony from AudioFidelity (MSB) and Cameron from MaxMedia (AMR) were all great to deal with.  Happy to come to my house, chat, listen to music talk about tunes & gear, all of them knew their product backwards which was great for all the geeky questions I had lined up, and were more than happy to sit in my room when I had headphones on and wait patiently while I a/b’ed with other gear and different tunes.

 

None of these guys tried to take the “pushy sales†route which was great!  All 3 in home auditions were very chilled out, and I can highly recommend to anyone who wants to hear this gear and the other brands they stock.  

 

I was able to demo the MSB Analog and the AMR dp777 on the same day (but not at the same time) against a friend’s Auralic VEGA DAC which I borrowed for a night.  At this point I had already sold the AR DAC8 to finance the next purchase, so I’m not able to provide direct comparisons with that.

 

They are all very nice units – the presentation of the MSB was closer to the VEGA – but obviously the MSB is more refined, with more control in the mids and bass.  Both had a similar “up front†sound in the midrange.  The Auralic is $3.5k (US) – the MSB is $7k.  The sound quality, presentation and build of the MSB is exceptional however, so I guess you get what you pay for but whether it’s worth the extra cash is a personal question.

 

The AMR has a completely different presentation.  Closer to the lampi, and it would be great to hear them back to back.  I’m guessing it has to do with them both having a valve output stage?  It’s a very good unit and pretty much perfect for my tastes, very laid back and mellow in comparison to the VEGA, but with really nice sound stage and bass texture that I hadn’t really heard on the LCD-3’s before.  It does not have the control in the mids the MSB has, but it’s so smooth, without a trace of sibilance or glare.  A very lush listen, and I think it’s perfect for my headphone based listening requirements –ie: getting woken up by trucks outside my window at 4am (I live in the CBD) – and needing to put on some chilled out music to help me get back to sleep..!

 

My music PC has an Adnaco S3 USB hub which is fed clean power from a PSU I had made up from SNA member A J.  It makes a huge difference in comparison to the motherboard USB ports.  The PC is running a very stripped back windows 8 install with JPlay mini.

 

I have gone through a few USB / SPIDF converters now – from very cheap ebay models to the AP2, AP2 pure power, JK Mk3, JK Ciunas and my favourite the SonicWeld Diverter (original model, not the HR) I have been told that the diverter plays on the OR5 level.  So all comparisons were made against the diverter using a Black Cat Veloce BNC cable. The USB input on all 3 units is very good. I liked the internal USB on the VEGA more than the diverter.  Maybe this is due to the fact the SPDIF input isn’t as good as the other DAC’s?  For me this is irrelevant as I plan to use USB.  The Lampi, MSB & AMR all had slightly different presentations but none bad.  In contrast I found the USB input on the AR DAC8 quite bad and the diverter was a huge upgrade.  I’m pretty sure the Auralic MSB, AMR and DAC8 all use the same USB receiver chips (XMOS) as they all had a similar driver package (not 100% on this tho).

 

Thanks to SNA members -  jsgrahara, hngls, duckman, ianb, acg, nada, michaelp2, petng, a j, zog, audiohifiaudio – for all their advice and encouragement.

 

 

TL;DR – I auditioned Lampizator 3 & 4, MSB Analog & AMR DP 777 at home.  All reps were great to deal with.  

 

[sir sanders zingmore]

Dumb question but why do you need in-home auditions if you have headphones?

[Nada]

Dumb question but why do you need in-home auditions if you have headphones?

 

One benefit to this in home demo, even with cans, is to check how they perform on your mains power. Im  serious. I had a recent experience of two excellent tube rectified pieces of gear sounding very average at one place which had incoming junk on the power. In comparison sold state rectified gear went OK at that place.

 

Auditioning at home also has advantages of being relaxed in ones comfort zone which is really important when auditioning in my experience.

 

One problem with rapid auditioning is that the MSB Analog DAC like other all sold state R2R DACs takes days of warm up to reach its full glory. In the first hours it sounds nothing like its full self in my experience. This makes a home trial of 48 hours essential  to know how the thing really sounds. One advantage of the Analog is being SS its no problem leaving it on all the time. No excessive heat build up or fire danger. Then when wanting to listen its ready to go instantly. You might think tubed gear warms up quickly and doesnt need to be left on. However even the hot running AMR according to its main designer Thorsten, sounds better left permanently on.

[acg]

Dumb question but why do you need in-home auditions if you have headphones?

Amp, pc, adnaco.

Nice read Gav. It's been an undertaking and I hope you find your end game dac.

Cheers,

Anthony

[gavtron]

Dumb question but why do you need in-home auditions if you have headphones?

 

Not a dumb question at all  My valve amp is massive and weighs over 10 kg - and I don't have a car.  There's no way I'm lugging it on public transport!  Also as acg mentioned the PC - I wanted to make sure the Adnaco / JPlay played nice with the USB DAC's (they were all fine)

 

But - the best thing is (as Nada pointed out) that I am more relaxed in my home than at a shop.   Although the last few times I have been to Addicted to Audio, Jaben  & CAV  the staff offered me a drink of coffee and gave me lots of time to listen

Edited June 26, 2013 by gavtron

[gavtron]

One problem with rapid auditioning is that the MSB Analog DAC like other all sold state R2R DACs takes days of warm up to reach its full glory. In the first hours it sounds nothing like its full self in my experience. This makes a home trial of 48 hours essential  to know how the thing really sounds. One advantage of the Analog is being SS its no problem leaving it on all the time. No excessive heat build up or fire danger. Then when wanting to listen its ready to go instantly. You might think tubed gear warms up quickly and doesnt need to be left on. However even the hot running AMR according to its main designer Thorsten, sounds better left permanently on.

 

I need to hear it in full flight.  Even stone cold it was better than the VEGA.  

 

Can you please send a link to the info of the AMR from Thorsten?

[Nada]

Amp, pc, adnaco. Nice read Gav. It's been an undertaking and I hope you find your end game dac. Cheers, Anthony

 

There's is no end to this game. Just as well. What would we do?  Huh. Listen to music you say? Absurd!

[Nada]

Can you please send a link to the info of the AMR from Thorsten?

 

 

My personal recommendation would be to NOT turn the DP-777 off or put

it into standby.  Ever.   Thorsten Loesch

[gavtron]

Such a stern warning

 

Thanks Nada,

[wis97non]

Lukasz says the same thing. Turning it on and off shortens tube life. It only runs at 20% of rated capacity, so its equivalent to a 20W bulb being on.

 

The Femto is a great Dac.

[wis97non]

Hi Gav,

 

Did you try the MSB with the optional outboard PSU?

[gavtron]

Hi Gav,

 

Did you try the MSB with the optional outboard PSU?

Yes.  The MSB rep did not have the regular PSU to compare with - he told me the normal PSU is still very good.

[Nada]

Gav I would suggest using one of these step-down transformers to run your AMR cooler, quieter and markedly extend the tube life. It will pay for itself many times over.

[PorkBun69s]

I leave my AMR dac on standby all day and only turn it on when i get back home in the evening.  Imo, it needs at least 1 hour of warm up and i put it on -60db on its internal preamp vol to run a signal to it.  I then turn it up to 35db for listening when everyone else goes to sleep.  And when i'm home alone, it goes up to 10db

 

Yes, although i do agree that switching it on/off does shorten the tube life, but those russian tubes in the DP-777 are rated for 10years of normal use i believe.

 

The thought of leaving tubes on 24/7 unsupervised at home is very risky imo or is it just me being extra cautious?

[Nada]

I leave my AMR dac on standby all day and only turn it on when i get back home in the evening.  Imo, it needs at least 1 hour of warm up and i put it on -60db on its internal preamp vol to run a signal to it.  I then turn it up to 35db for listening when everyone else goes to sleep.  And when i'm home alone, it goes up to 10db

 

Yes, although i do agree that switching it on/off does shorten the tube life, but those russian tubes in the DP-777 are rated for 10years of normal use i believe.

 

The thought of leaving tubes on 24/7 unsupervised at home is very risky imo or is it just me being extra cautious?

 

Any electrical equipment left plugged and on at the wall socket is a potential fire risk. Even more if gear is left in standby rather then  switched off. TV's have been know to start house fires on standby

 

 

thus this fire safety advice:

 

Turn off and, where practical, unplug appliances when not in use.  Do not leave TVs on standby mode, switch them off. New Zealand Fire Service

 

I never leave my tubed gear running unless Im around and I have a fire extinguisher on the rack. Maybe the ideal for tubed DAC's  is to build a fire proof rack to house them safely even if they are on fire and run them 24/24 out of storm season.

 

I recently had a home trial of an MSB Analog DAC. I had no fears leaving it on 24/24 as it was so well designed and ran just warm. It sounded better and better every day it was on and running.  The quandary is with tubed DAC's.

 

One of my tubed DAC's has an off swtich that keeps the DA chips and SS components powered up and just turns off the tubed analogue output stage. I think AMR used to do that too till regulations stipulating less then 0.5W draw in standby mode got them.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Nada

[PKay]

Have you thought of trying the Metrum Hex at $3.5k considerably cheaper and based on the reviews published possibly as good.  Also the Meitner MA1 is RRP of $7k also brilliant reviews.

[PKay]

No tubes so less risk of fire...

[gavtron]

Have you thought of trying the Metrum Hex at $3.5k considerably cheaper and based on the reviews published possibly as good.  Also the Meitner MA1 is RRP of $7k also brilliant reviews.

Hi PXK,

 

Yes, however - a friend of mine had it for a few weeks but sent it back,  Unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to visit while he had it, so I am yet to hear it.  I have read that it's on par with the Auralic VEGA which I had a few days to hear. 

 

As much as tubes can be a pain to maintain and the risk of loosing everything I own to a house fire because of them - I really do like the way they make music flow into my brain.  The tube DAC's i have tried have always impressed me in some way

[PKay]

which dac did he have for weeks? the Hex or Meitner?  Also why did he end up sending it back after a few weeks?

[gavtron]

which dac did he have for weeks? the Hex or Meitner?  Also why did he end up sending it back after a few weeks?

The Hex.  I think he sent it back because he's a hard man to please

[New Sensations]

I would imagine that both the AMR and Meitner would be a cut above the Metrum and AURALiC.

[gavtron]

I would imagine that both the AMR and Meitner would be a cut above the Metrum and AURALiC.

Have had the AMR for just over a day.  Fresh outta the box I thought I had purchased a very expensive paperweight.  Very congested and warm.  Now it is already sounding much better, but the user manual calls for 300-600 hours playback before making a call on sq.  The AMR rep Cameron wouldn't llet me hear the demo until it had 250 hours run in.

 

The presentation is very different to the VEGA.  Much more mellow, and to me, "musical".  Already this afternoon I have been finding myself connecting to the music - always a good sign!

[PKay]

I've been trying to audition the AMR however living in Sydney is very difficult to have a listen.  I am now leaning towards the Meitner MA1.

[PorkBun69s]

AMR changed the design of the 777 to comply with EU power emmission standards.  By doing so, only the DSP and non critical circuitry which is low powered is kept on.  So the tubes are not on during standby, which is a good thing to prolong the lifespan.

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2013 by katattack74

[gavtron]

I've been trying to audition the AMR however living in Sydney is very difficult to have a listen.  I am now leaning towards the Meitner MA1.

Going by reviews, I'm sure the Meitner would be a good DAC.

 

Based on my recent auditions I would suggest trying a tube and solid state unit, see which sound you like more.  

 

Then try a few different models of your preference... At $7k you would also want to check out the MSB Analog, M2Tech Vaughan and Calyx Femto.