Need some help please. Speaker (floorstanders recommendations) <$5K

[roh008]

Hi All,

 

I am looking long and hard at speaker options that will suit my taste. I listened to two speakers one bookshelf and one floorstander. I loved the floorstander but I appreciated the technical ability of the bookshelf.

I am looking at floorstanders but used the opportunity to demo the bookshelf LS50s to hear what the fuss was about.

 

1. Book shelf KEF LS50

2. Floorstander ProAc Studio 140

 

I felt the detail of the LS50s where fantastic really clear and transparent. But lacked the ability to pull me in to the music and get me fired up.

 

The ProAc 140s well they are the speaker that got my feet tapping and had me nudging the volume control up in the store whilst the sales guy was grinning seeing me getting captivated by the ProAc.

Interestingly, the sales guy said the ProAc 140s have the ability to do that but said I should go back and listen to the D18 (or was it the D28, can't remember now) as he felt that speaker lost the ability to get the feet tapping but did improve the clarity somewhat.

 

I prefer a speaker that is not fatiguing to listen to (so not overly sharp treble??). However, I am looking for a speaker that does have a clear midrange and a nice strong low end with clear highs that don't become shrill.

 

So on the list so far are (does include bookshelf speakers I have heard):

 

1. Kef LS50 (bookshelf)

2. ProAc Studio 140

3. Cabasse Bora (bookshelf, large standmount 3-way design, strong low end still unsure on this. Was run off Trevor lees own valve amps)

4. PMC Twenty.24 (listened to at CAV run of Cyrus equipment, wafer size but maybe a little light on the low end? - wasn't my music I was listening too though)

 

 

Ones I want to hear and ones I hope people can add to the list for me to audtion:

 

1. Osborn Eclipse (only heard at a Home Show)

2. Tannoy DC8T

3. Dynaudio Excite X32? I think that's the floorstander

4.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2013 by roh008

[thesnodger]

I would have said come over and have a listen to my Usher's (Dancer 8871) but you're a bit too far away! They do fit into your description though.

[Grainy]

Do CAV still have PMC FB1i's? They sounded nice with the Cyrus amps too. Your budget will cover the Dynaudio Focus 260, much fuller sound than the x32 when I heard them together. What amp are you using?

Edited June 14, 2013 by Grainy

[roh008]

Do CAV still have PMC FB1i's? They sounded nice with the Cyrus amps too. Your budget will cover the Dynaudio Focus 260, much fuller sound than the x32 when I heard them together. What amp are you using?

Doing a rebuild so starting with nothing.

Speakers first then will build around that. Source will 95% HTPC for music

[Al Leece]

PMC speakers are definitely easy to listen to and get toes tapping. Mine, at least. I second the call to try the FB1s. Have a good look around as I picked up the bigger (if old model) OB1 speakers for not much more than $4k and they are a fantastic listen. Focals are worth auditioning, too, but PMC pulled me away from their lure. It may work the other way for you.

[unclemack]

Have a listen to the Yamaha Soavo (1, I think the floorstanders are called). Should still be within your budget. Lovely speaker, non fatiguing top end, very solid bottom end and gorgeous midrange. A very capable speaker that unfortunately get's overlooked because of the badge but, very much worth an audition...

 

I've owned these and loved them everytime I listened to them

 

http://au.yamaha.com/en/products/audio-visual/speaker-systems/speaker-packages/soavo-series/?mode=series#tab=product_lineup

 

Cheers

 

M

[muzzagruzz]

Hello roh008

I could be wrong but I think CAV stock Legend Acoustics - Australian speakers.

Brilliant speakers and you could listen to the Kurre 7's standmounts or the Kama 6SE floor stander.

I have the Kurre 7's and the Kantu 6's. Gorgeous. They put a smile in my face and get my foot tapping every time.

[roh008]

When I pop in to CAV might audition a range of their floorstanders. Want to listen to the PMC again with my music too

[avalon]

Dynaudio Focus 260 would fit your description and would be my choice.

Can be had for under 4 grand with a little shopping around.

[Newman]

…..I loved the floorstander but I appreciated the technical ability of the bookshelf…..the detail of the LS50s where fantastic really clear and transparent. But lacked the ability to pull me in to the music and get me fired up…..I prefer a speaker that is not fatiguing to listen to (so not overly sharp treble??). However, I am looking for a speaker that does have a clear midrange and a nice strong low end with clear highs that don't become shrill…..

 

Some of these qualities you are noting are part and parcel of either [a] a speaker that does not reach down to 20 Hz and/or up to 20 kHz, or a speaker with dips and/or bumps in certain ranges of its frequency response.

 

Wow, I am not making my point. My point is, that you will often experience small loudspeakers as being "fantastically clear and transparent", but that is really something that occurs naturally when you remove the ability to play the lowest octaves at the appropriate amplitudes. If you take the exact same speaker and supplement the missing octaves of bass, the observed fantastic clarity and transparency suddenly begins to disappear. Or if you take a full ranger that does not seem as clear sounding, and roll off its bass octaves, suddenly it becomes amazingly transparent sounding.

 

One more tip, regarding music for auditioning. If you want to test the ability of the loudspeakers, do NOT waste time on simple small-band arrangements that are so favoured in demo rooms everywhere e.g. Jennifer Warnes, Ricki Lee Jones, Norah Jones, Eric Bibb, George Benson, Cass Wilson etc, no matter how audiophile the recording. This type of music is actually the EASIEST for a loudspeaker to reproduce. And don't waste time on 70's rock music no matter how famous the remaster. Instead, take some of your fave music of high energy and wide bandwidth e.g. full orchestra going hammer and tongs, big band jazz, and maybe recent rock that you know to have good dynamics and quality (I know Los Lobos Tin Can Trust to make the grade).

 

Good luck with the quest! And please keep us informed.

[roh008]

Hi Newman,

 

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated. Especially regarding the demo music.

Interestingly enough people say take music one is familiar with. But the issue is when "Upgrading" off course the music I am familiar with is going to sound better/different when trying speakers that are in price bracket above my current system so maybe I should play music I am not familiar with that is complex and play them on all the speakers I am going to listen to and use that as a comparison. As I would simply be comparing the music that I am less familiar with on all systems that are equivalent in speaker price bracket and not my entry level Hi-Fi

[Newman]

cheers -- yes a tricky topic about familiar vs unfamiliar demo music. I see pros and cons either way. 

[roh008]

cheers -- yes a tricky topic about familiar vs unfamiliar demo music. I see pros and cons either way. 

 ^ That post was less useful than the first one you made :nana but probably true.

[roh008]

When I go in to demo some speakers to make it a "fair" comparison, well similar might be a better word. Should I use my iPhone with an SPL meter app as a rough and ready "datum" point. To help with the comparison?

As it is amazing how playing some speakers louder than another pair can really sway how one perceives the quality of the speaker, has anyone else found this?

 

Thanks

 

Roh

[Newman]

When I go in to demo some speakers to make it a "fair" comparison, well similar might be a better word. Should I use my iPhone with an SPL meter app as a rough and ready "datum" point. To help with the comparison?

 

Sure, why not? You will get within 1dB, and that's better than not getting within 1dB!

 

As it is amazing how playing some speakers louder than another pair can really sway how one perceives the quality of the speaker, has anyone else found this?

It's a fact, proven by research. It's the reason for the 'loudness war'.

[roh008]

So I spent yesterday helping my brother in law audition some near field monitors.

 

The long and short of it is I fell in love with the Adam A5X ribbon tweeters.

 

We were at a Pro Audio shop so they had all the monitors hooked up to a switcher. We used the iPhone app to try and match SPL levels and it made great fun in instanst switching between the A3X A5X and a Yamaha which I can't remember the model.

 

 

Can anyone recommend that similar lovely silkly smooth airy - just simply amazing sound in nice large floorstanders that I can go audition?

Also without the restriction that the near field monitors had of being very sweet in its sweet spot but sounding pretty average 20cms either side of that sweet spot.( I know that is what nearfield monitors are for but, that's not what I am wanting)

[davewantsmoore]

Should I use my iPhone with an SPL meter app as a rough and ready "datum" point. To help with the comparison?

 

Absolutely without question.   It is impossible to compare speakers correctly without this.

 

 

As it is amazing how playing some speakers louder than another pair can really sway how one perceives the quality of the speaker, has anyone else found this?

 

Yes.  Exactly....  1 or 3dB can be easily not noticed as "louder" ... but just "better'.      On a linear scale 3dB is double the energy, ie.   twice as much acoustic power entering the room.  (Huge!)

 

At the risk of seeming arrogant or rude, anyone who hasn't found this, has not correctly evaluated speakers and has been fooled.

 

 

IMO Newmans response of "sure why not?!" understates the significance of this issue   (He know it's important, I'm sure... he just should have been more forceful)   :-)

[roh008]

Absolutely without question.   It is impossible to compare speakers correctly without this.

 

 

 

Yes.  Exactly....  1 or 3dB can be easily not noticed as "louder" ... but just "better'.      On a linear scale 3dB is double the energy, ie.   twice as much acoustic power entering the room.  (Huge!)

 

At the risk of seeming arrogant or rude, anyone who hasn't found this, has not correctly evaluated speakers and has been fooled.

 

 

IMO Newmans response of "sure why not?!" understates the significance of this issue   (He know it's important, I'm sure... he just should have been more forceful)   :-)

 

I too am aware that 3dB is roughly double the energy but didn't really dawn on me until I have decide to go for upgrade path on speakers and due to the money involved want to get it right.

 

And you are right that I should REALLY stick with my initial hunch and make sure I do it for every store I go to in order to try and make it a similar comparison.

[davewantsmoore]

Definitely.    Also amplifiers have different gains too... so it's just as relevant for amp switching too.

 

 

I have myself (and heard of many more) instances of being told I was crazy to match things ... and even forbidden from doing so.    <facepalm>

[Newman]

I said "Sure, why not" because he can't really do it properly, and in a way is therefore more likely to simply obscure the fact that his SPL's are not quite well enough matched to be sure the preferences are not based on SPL differences.

But I left that complexity our of it so as to be positive and encouraging. Same reason you left it out, Dave?

[roh008]

True it is a lot more complex to do right thing. What I will be doing is roughly 1-2dB

Also 3dB increase on SPL isn't double the loud des technically.

The doubling being referred to is double the power requirement for an increase in 3dB.

Of the top of my head to double the loudness (perception) is around 10dB.

All info above has been taken well. We are all roughly in the same boat.

Thanks

Edited July 8, 2013 by roh008

[davewantsmoore]

Also 3dB increase on SPL isn't double the loud des technically.

 

Sure.  That's right.... but electronics and speakers work in linear ways.   They are experiencing double the energy, and this is a very important consideration in how they operate.

 

Yes, it takes more like 10dB to "sound twice as loud".     ("Twice" being quite a lot in most assessments)

[roh008]

So ended up getting a pair of Eclipse speakers which are due next week so can't wait.

[roh008]

They arrived and set them up! A quantum leap closer to the audio nirvana I am looking for.

[peacewise]

Looking good.