kczar01 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) Ok, i need a new sub to keep up with the new system. On the weekend we a had a few friends over for dinner and wine, one of my friends, she (yes she as in female) was admiring the build and finish of the Yamaha's. In passing conversation I mentioned about the sub and the thoughts of building a new one. Anyway today I helped her seal the deal on a new car and got her a great deal. Among conversation she said to me if I wanted she would help me build a new sub..... :o . It didn't click before but I forgot she is a design and tech teacher (mainly woodwork) and her work is amazing and second to none. She offered to help with the construction, cutting, rebating, routing and even doing some yummy veneer work. On top she is reliable, is interested in HIFI and doing this as a project..... :wub:. Anyway I need peoples thoughts on design, size (Probable 12"), components, veneer, the whole kit and caboodle. This is a great opportunity to get something custom made and to have a few wines... Regards and looking forward to the input. Kyle Edited June 5, 2013 by kczar01
davewantsmoore Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/subwoofers/ Knock yourself out! :-) My vote is for sealed + linkwitz transform EQ Use minidsp 2x4 + minidsp umik + REW for the crossover It's almost always better value to have multiple subs vs bigger size/$ subs 1
~Spyne~ Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 She sounds like a winner, can I have her number? lol As far as parts/design go, do you have any limitations with regards to budget? I assume you need driver and amplifier? What is your current system and what sort of room is it in? Main use for music or movies? 1
davewantsmoore Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/dayton-um12-22-12-ultimax-sub/ 229 http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/dayton-500w-sub-plate-amp/ 379 minidsp + umik-1 175 $785 or 2x = $1310 1
kczar01 Posted June 6, 2013 Author Posted June 6, 2013 She sounds like a winner, can I have her number? lol As far as parts/design go, do you have any limitations with regards to budget? I assume you need driver and amplifier? What is your current system and what sort of room is it in? Main use for music or movies? Haha. No.get in que Its for music.system is yamaha as700. Cds300. And yamaha savo speakers.
henry218 Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 there are plenty designs. it will be easier if you could listed the factors that you feel essential with your build. size, budget, dimension, possible of shapes, placement (end tables, incorporated cabinets or just freestanding) i would recommend build 2 at least, go with cheaper driver or smaller. 1
bjc Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 For just music I'd go with twin 10inch drivers, just the standard design subwoofers and not the crazy xmax big surround subs. You want quick, tight and punchy bass so go for a sealed box and as much power for them as possible within your budget. That's my opinion though 1
kczar01 Posted June 6, 2013 Author Posted June 6, 2013 OK sorry for the delay in responding, and thanks to those who helped out. I would prefer one sub, I like the idea of twin drivers and all possibly twin 8 or 10 inches. The signal needs to be sent via speaker cable as the amp has no sub out and runs off the sub out. Used for music purposes. Room in large room floorboards with a large rug to come. Budget wise I would like to keep it around 500-700ish. feedback welcome and thanks again in advance.
henry218 Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 sb acoustics 12" will do well i supposed + hypex 2.700 plateamp
davewantsmoore Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 The signal needs to be sent via speaker cable as the amp has no sub out and runs off the sub out. Can you explain that one again!?
davewantsmoore Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 2x 8" drivers works out to the same price as the 12" option I posted above.
hochopeper Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 Can you explain that one again!? The last part especially?!? 'has no sub out' ..... 'and runs off the sub out' ... I've got a headache now 1
kczar01 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Posted June 7, 2013 Wow sorry guys. Has no sub out and runs off 'B' speakers
Paul Spencer Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) EDIT: oooops just saw your budget and realised I killed it ......... You have no preamp output? If not then you just need high level inputs. I'd point you to a driver that is quite new and I think it's pretty cool. Ultimax 10: All the Dayton drivers are well made, but this one has a new surround - the tallboy style that allows more excursion without taking up too much cone area. If it were me (I could say that 100 times and be different each time) .... I'd probably pair up two of those with an SPA1000 + MiniDSP. We also have our own mic that is like UMIK - called Dayton UMM, although both should work just fine. Not sure I would use a USB mic (except Omnimic) for speaker measurements, but fine for sub and room. The Dayton Reference drivers are the most versatile we have, in that they come in HF and HO versions, which have different box requirements. The HO versions are designed for smaller boxes. You could as an alternative go with a pair of Dayton 12" HO version - a pair of those could fit in a very small box. If you wanted to do something tricky and a bit different, you could surface mount them and make the box so that the driver is surface mounted and the outside of the rim of the driver meets the edge of the box at the edge. Don't even think about doing it with other drivers, but you could do it here. Other options are likely to require a Linkwitz Transform. That means eating up power to fight the box volume. Now if you go with Dayton HO, you don't have to do this, but you get earlier roll off and then need a bit of EQ. BTW - Dayton seem to be quite conservative on their xmax ratings. Example. One person who measured them commented that the 18" unit despite a modest xmax rating actually was quite linear out to 20mm one way. Which makes me wonder how much you can get out of Ultimax, with a nom xmax of 19mm yet you can see the surround at least would support much higher excursion. It looks more like the surrounds on the higher end TC Sound drivers. Edited June 7, 2013 by Paul Spencer 2
davewantsmoore Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 That Ultimax (well, the 12" version) is in this months voice coil magazine. Vance even thought it was good enough to let a subjective statement slip in. Must be good! :-) 1
kczar01 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Posted June 8, 2013 EDIT: oooops just saw your budget and realised I killed it ......... You have no preamp output? If not then you just need high level inputs. I'd point you to a driver that is quite new and I think it's pretty cool. Ultimax 10: All the Dayton drivers are well made, but this one has a new surround - the tallboy style that allows more excursion without taking up too much cone area. If it were me (I could say that 100 times and be different each time) .... I'd probably pair up two of those with an SPA1000 + MiniDSP. We also have our own mic that is like UMIK - called Dayton UMM, although both should work just fine. Not sure I would use a USB mic (except Omnimic) for speaker measurements, but fine for sub and room. The Dayton Reference drivers are the most versatile we have, in that they come in HF and HO versions, which have different box requirements. The HO versions are designed for smaller boxes. You could as an alternative go with a pair of Dayton 12" HO version - a pair of those could fit in a very small box. If you wanted to do something tricky and a bit different, you could surface mount them and make the box so that the driver is surface mounted and the outside of the rim of the driver meets the edge of the box at the edge. Don't even think about doing it with other drivers, but you could do it here. Other options are likely to require a Linkwitz Transform. That means eating up power to fight the box volume. Now if you go with Dayton HO, you don't have to do this, but you get earlier roll off and then need a bit of EQ. BTW - Dayton seem to be quite conservative on their xmax ratings. Example. One person who measured them commented that the 18" unit despite a modest xmax rating actually was quite linear out to 20mm one way. Which makes me wonder how much you can get out of Ultimax, with a nom xmax of 19mm yet you can see the surround at least would support much higher excursion. It looks more like the surrounds on the higher end TC Sound drivers. Thanks Paul i will be in contact soon
alittlewino Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 (edited) or you could try a passive such as this for fun at low cost - not DIY but small $ and simply hook up with speaker wire http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Passive-8-Vifa-P21WO-39-08-Subwoofer-Bargain-Buying-Mint-Condition-just-130-/160926947175 some years ago I built a push-pull passive from an Electronics Australia article using twin 10" Vifa drivers and regret selling it - tried googling the article but no luck as probably too old could have a look for the design article in my archived stuff if a passive was of interest to you - no idea if your amp has the grunt buy you could always add a sub-plate-amp to the design if you wanted to edit - there's also the Peerless sub kits - these drivers got great reviews at the time ->>>http://www.penhometheatre.com.au/speakerkits.htm Edited June 8, 2013 by alittlewino
SBL Posted June 9, 2013 Posted June 9, 2013 Another option is the eminence LAB12, it is quite an expensive 12" in Aus, but is a very nice sounding driver. Very durable to.
ellrotts Posted June 10, 2013 Posted June 10, 2013 can you get a sub woofer amplifier that is not box mounted? I have a Focal subwoofer that cost me an arm and a leg that I dont use, would like to give it a whirl but can only find plate amps
Jone5y Posted June 10, 2013 Posted June 10, 2013 Here's a few options: http://www.infrasonic.com.au/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=68 http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/dayton-sa1000-subwoofer-amplifier/
Paul Spencer Posted June 10, 2013 Posted June 10, 2013 We have two options, with 230w and 1000w. They are Dayton amps that are in a case rather than plate amp form, so they contain all the controls you would normally have. 230w http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/dayton-sa230-230w-subwoofer-amplifier/ 1000w http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/dayton-sa1000-subwoofer-amplifier/ I don't know what design and requirements you have with this woofer, but I'd hazard a guess that you don't need as much power as you would typically use in a subwoofer.
davewantsmoore Posted June 25, 2013 Posted June 25, 2013 iNuke3000DSP I wish these could do Linkwitz Transform :-/
svenr Posted June 25, 2013 Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) It takes 2 mins to approximate a Linkwitz transform with a parametric EQ and shelving EQ - every DSP has these ones on board. What's this contemporary compulsion with Linkwitz transforms anyway? Why not design for the required cut-off frequency, efficiency and cabinet size right away? If cabinet sizes become too large, use Neville Thiele's approach of transferring part of the enclosure compliance to an electric serial capacitance? Higher efficiency, less thermal strain, less power compression, better design. Edited June 25, 2013 by svenr
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