nopoweradeinusa Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 this might be an insanely dumb question, but currently I'm using a chord qutest & thinking of upgrading to a yggdrasil or a terminator, but being that I use the qutest for everything coming audio wise from my computer, movies, music but most importantly gaming, my question, is there a delay in the sound when it comes to higher end dacs because of the buffers? because I would like to play counter strike through the terminator etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batty Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 Ares II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamaha_man Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 I’ve got a EMM labs DAC2x available if you’re interested. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendes Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, Yamaha_man said: I’ve got a EMM labs DAC2x available if you’re interested. End game for gaming 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunno77 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 49 minutes ago, nopoweradeinusa said: this might be an insanely dumb question, but currently I'm using a chord qutest & thinking of upgrading to a yggdrasil or a terminator, but being that I use the qutest for everything coming audio wise from my computer, movies, music but most importantly gaming, my question, is there a delay in the sound when it comes to higher end dacs because of the buffers? because I would like to play counter strike through the terminator etc Not that I have ever noticed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky500 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 (edited) I think I read that denafrips dacs might have a delay. I will see if I can find it. The article I think was surprised with that too and it changes every time you turn it on or switch inputs I think. Edited December 31, 2021 by rocky500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopoweradeinusa Posted December 31, 2021 Author Share Posted December 31, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Yamaha_man said: I’ve got a EMM labs DAC2x available if you’re interested. Ha i was looking at that on gumtree last night actually, thinking that 10k is a little out of my price range but it does look nice! so no one’s had any issue gaming with the yggy or terminator? I love my ranked counter strike so i can’t use something with a delay Edited December 31, 2021 by nopoweradeinusa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripitaka Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 26 minutes ago, nopoweradeinusa said: Ha i was looking at that on gumtree last night actually, thinking that 10k is a little out of my price range but it does look nice! so no one’s had any issue gaming with the yggy or terminator? I love my rabies counter strike so i can’t use something with a delay You may be the first gamer in history to use a $4K dac for gaming! Still, there are people on this forum who probably know the answer to your query, but possibly didnt click past the topic heading. @davewantsmoore might know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopoweradeinusa Posted December 31, 2021 Author Share Posted December 31, 2021 unironically using hd800s & the qutest for counter strike is great, i’m playing 3d chess while everyone else is 2d… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 The MSB DACs have a "video" mode which gets rid of any lag, and I used mine to play Skyward Sword on my projector setup. Unfortunately I didn't have my Select yet, but that means I did play it on a $70,000 Reference DAC. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 21 hours ago, nopoweradeinusa said: Ha i was looking at that on gumtree last night actually, thinking that 10k is a little out of my price range but it does look nice! so no one’s had any issue gaming with the yggy or terminator? I love my ranked counter strike so i can’t use something with a delay The delay is typically tiny, on the order of 1ms. If it is significantly longer than that ... then the manufacturer will know, and very likely publish, it. Ask them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopoweradeinusa Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 leaning towards the yggdrasil less is more lately, where would I find the information about the delay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripitaka Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, nopoweradeinusa said: leaning towards the yggdrasil less is more lately, where would I find the information about the delay? Guess u'd have to email Schitt. But is 1ms actually a concern? Or just save up a bit more for an MSB? Edited January 1, 2022 by tripitaka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopoweradeinusa Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 8 minutes ago, tripitaka said: Guess u'd have to email Schitt. But is 1ms actually a concern? Or just save up a bit more for an MSB? I think I might try to start 2022 on a smart decision of capping myself at 5k on a dac 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 49 minutes ago, nopoweradeinusa said: leaning towards the yggdrasil less is more lately, where would I find the information about the delay? Most manufacturers don't publish anything at all. Unless you can find someone with experience with the DAC itself, you're taking a stab in the dark. It is actually quite rare for DACs to have huge buffers; MSB is quite a dramatic exception. The only other example I know of with a big lag is Chord's Mscaler (not the DACs per se) as it adds up to 600ms of latency because of the length of its upsampling filter. Most DACs oversample and don't have huge buffers though (upsampling leads to latency, oversampling usually doesn't.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopoweradeinusa Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ittaku said: Most manufacturers don't publish anything at all. Unless you can find someone with experience with the DAC itself, you're taking a stab in the dark. It is actually quite rare for DACs to have huge buffers; MSB is quite a dramatic exception. The only other example I know of with a big lag is Chord's Mscaler (not the DACs per se) as it adds up to 600ms of latency because of the length of its upsampling filter. Most DACs oversample and don't have huge buffers though (upsampling leads to latency, oversampling usually doesn't.) appreciate the insight con, think i'm heading towards the yggy less is more option, I emailed dacman about the terminator & he said a customer told him the denafrips ares wasn't great for gaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 1 minute ago, nopoweradeinusa said: appreciate the insight con, think i'm heading towards the yggy less is more option, I emailed dacman about the terminator & he said a customer told him the denafrips ares wasn't great for gaming Personally I think the Yggy is overpriced by today's standards, things have changed dramatically, but your experience with the DAC itself could easily override any generic recommendation from me (and should). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopoweradeinusa Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, Ittaku said: Personally I think the Yggy is overpriced by today's standards, things have changed dramatically, but your experience with the DAC itself could easily override any generic recommendation from me (and should). what direction would you push me in? we're both using omni directional speakers it seems while mine are a lot less impressive (duevel venus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 1 hour ago, nopoweradeinusa said: where would I find the information about the delay? If it's significant, it will be published. Otherwise the manufacturer will know.... ask them. It will be unusual for it not to be very very small, in the order of 1ms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 7 minutes ago, nopoweradeinusa said: what direction would you push me in? we're both using omni directional speakers it seems while mine are a lot less impressive (duevel venus) I find the Yggy cold. I'm very biased but I would be leaning towards newer R2R offerings such as metrum, holo audio, or denafrips. Sure they don't measure as well but who cares about measurements when all DACs' performance are allegedly below the threshold of hearing... As always I urge you to audition if possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nada Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 @Christian : So your looking for a great DAC for music/movies and gaming needing very low nil latency and your looking for an R2R based DAC? The problem with newer discrete R2R DACs is they do internal DSP with predictable latency which is unknown for most models. Ignore any propaganda about low latency USB models. Its the internal processing that matters. Denafrips is particularly affected. Heres an option for you. See if you can borrow or score an older Audio-GD with multiple PCM1704UK (totally avoid the non-PCM1704 models) that has discrete power supplies and the ability to turn off the DSP to run it in NOS mode. Near zero latency is guaranteed with DSP's bypassed inside he DAC. Then set up oversampling on your PC with low latency filters . You should get great timbe for music, great imaging for gaming, good details but not fatiguing with the HD800s. Dont get fooled by the lower cost or age into assuming the sound is inferior compared to the modern discrete R2R models. The other option would be a PDX PCM1704 and there's a guru in Brisbane ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed369 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 This make me thinking can I use hifi dac for movie sections Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 On 01/01/2022 at 10:14 PM, Nada said: The problem with newer discrete R2R DACs is they do internal DSP with predictable latency which is unknown for most models. Ignore any propaganda about low latency USB models. Its the internal processing that matters. Denafrips is particularly affected. What internal DSP are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triocorp Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 I am using PS Audio DirectStream DAC for my PC, where I do everything like you, including gaming. I don't notice any delays in audio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nada Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Ittaku said: What internal DSP are you talking about? The designers dont seem to share DSP details often and Im not an engineer so Im only guessing. But the discrete resistor ladder R2R DACs will need to do bespoke digital processing stuff for their bespoke R2R to run. That might include PLL, bit segmentation, ladder error feedback correction, filters etc. Who knows what the delay is until someone measures it? Listening to music it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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