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Atmos speakers - Would these suffice?


Axl
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Looking for opinions and advice please. Thanks in advance!

 

I have been planning a 5.1.2 HT set up for a while now and the components are coming together.

 

The pending item is the atmos speakers. The HT room is small with a low ceiling and I was advised to have an upfiring atmos speaker. Also it will be very tough to run wires and so an elevated atmos speaker is ruled out.

Therefore looking for something that can sit on my floorstanders and do the job. Just want to get a second opinion on this and also some advice on the speakers themselves.

 

Based on my research, even a pair of bookshelves angled up or down should help with the atmos effect but I see a few varieties of atmos speakers that can be used on top of floor standers.

I was looking at the Sony ones https://www.sony.com.au/electronics/speakers/ss-cse.

These are by far the cheapest I have seen and have good reviews but they have only 1 driver each. Would this be recommended v/s something like this which also comes with a tweeter for the atmos.

 

https://www.spacehifi.com.au/audio/speakers/surround-speakers/monitor-audio-bronze-ams-dolby-atmos-speakers?option=1799

 

I know that Atmos is a very tricky thing to achieve in the first place. My expectations are low. I will be buying a good 4k blu ray player with Dolby atmos and this would probably be the main source for atmos encoded content.

 

Rest of my set up for reference:

 

Yamaha RX V6A Receiver

Front pair: Ascension custom made floorstanders (high end drivers) + centre

Rear: Yamaha musiccast 20 * 2

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Axl
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Just now, TheBlackDisc said:

I’d be contacting Adelaide Speakers to find a match (rears as well).

Do atmos and rears need to matched as well? The front pair and centre are matched.

 

I also have other limitations as its a huge challenge to run up wires in this room.

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Hi Axl,

 

I usually hate it when people come in to my thread and question my journey so far...but that won't stop me from doing it now!  I've heard many, many HT systems, but I've never seen anyone with up-firing ATMOS speakers - that should give you an indication of their popularity.  They're just full of compromise after compromise.  I'm going to chime in and see if there is possibly a better option.  I'm sure there's happy up-firing customers out there, but I've never met anyone who actually has them.  Plus any product that advertises itself as "ATMOS enabled" concerns me as to whom they're targeting.

 

Some more info would help. 

What's the dimensions of your room? 

Why have you 100% ruled out running cables?

 

As for looking for the cheapest effects speakers, often people think that because it doesn't work as hard as the centre or fronts, then cheap is okay.  Well, it may be, but it can introduce the same issues of any cheap speaker.  I still think going up the ladder with effects speakers is money well invested. 

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38 minutes ago, Kaynin said:

I usually hate it when people come in to my thread

Ahh haa. Well that explains it then.

 

Make this the heading for your thread: I hate it when people come in here. Go away...yeah that means you. 🤪 P.O and I don't mean Post Office.

 

 

P.S. Byron luxury paints closed down, PM if you need info on the good oil.

P.P.S. See you at the show next year.

P.P.P.S. Don't be so bloody vocal in the line up for entry this time ...

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2 minutes ago, Luc said:

Ahh haa. Well that explains it then.

 

Make this the heading for your thread: I hate it when people come in here. Go away...yeah that means you. 🤪 P.O and I don't mean Post Office.

 

 

P.S. Byron luxury paints closed down, PM if you need info on the good oil.

P.P.S. See you at the show next year.

P.P.P.S. Don't be so bloody vocal in the line up for entry this time ...

 

:faceless:

 

A heading like that wouldn't help, no-one listens to me anyway...  🙄

 

Bugger about luxury paints.  Still got some oil left over, I bought about 20 litres, but if I need the good oil I'll drop you a line...

 

Yep, locked and loaded at the show, and maybe even at a night out or two 😉

Lol - I wasn't giving up pole position for anyone.  It's an ego thing.

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1 hour ago, Axl said:

Still looking for any opinions or advice here folks esp from those who have experience with the upfiring atmos speakers! Thanks in advance!

If Edwards ceiling models are out maybe compromise a little to avoid the crap reflectivity of atmos enabled upfiring types ? What about shorter cables and a better designed brand than sony ie SVS  Elevation series ..

 

These avoid the signal manipulation of HRTF bass management of upfiring modules [ much better] and you can angle them at your listening position :classic_smile:  You want to give full reign to the capabilities of Edwards transmission line speakers if thats what youve gone for ? So filter rolloffs and slopes need careful consideration running full range or with a higher crossover .. 1 driver cant handle the FR of a good 2 way usually 😉

Quote

SVS offers another unobtrusive Atmos speaker solution with its Prime Elevation speaker ($199/each). Designed for placement high on a wall near the ceiling, Prime Elevation speakers feature an angled front baffle and fire sound down toward the listening position. According to SVS, they provide a more flexible alternative to standard Atmos Elevation speakers, which require a relatively high and flat ceiling to be effective. Also, since they use a standard crossover design with no HRTF processing, SVS claims that its Prime Elevation speakers can distribute height effects over a wider seating area than regular Atmos Elevation speakers.

 

Edited by cwt
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I had “Atmos Enabled” speakers in my home theatre until just recently and thought they were ok until I installed in ceiling speakers. Used to have a set of PSB Imagine XA modules sitting on top of left and right fronts. I could hear some overhead sound, but changing to in ceiling speakers (Krix Hemispherix A20) was an enormous improvement. If you can afford it and are able to I would not bother with reflecting Atmos enabled units and go for overheads. Can’t comment on the Sony speakers you mentioned as I haven’t heard them. The Krix A20s have my vote though, but will cost a few more dollars and will need installing in the ceiling.

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2 hours ago, Kaynin said:

Some more info would help. 

What's the dimensions of your room? 

Why have you 100% ruled out running cables?

 

As for looking for the cheapest effects speakers, often people think that because it doesn't work as hard as the centre or fronts, then cheap is okay.  Well, it may be, but it can introduce the same issues of any cheap speaker.  I still think going up the ladder with effects speakers is money well invested. 

 

@KayninHaha all good mate. I am happy to get a second opinion anyways.

 

These are the dimensions of the room.

Total room size: 6m * 3.7m. The left hand part of the room is a small office and so the HT area will be 3m * 3.7 making it a small/medium sized room.

Distance from sitting area to screen - 108 inch (8.5 ft approx). 

Width of wall available for screen - 106 inch (8.5 ft aprox)

Height from ceiling to ground - 8 feet. 

 

You can also see some older pictures here (the room is more neater now)

The challenges I have are:

 

1. This is a basement room and cabling is a little challenging.

2. Floor to ceiling height is just 8 feet.

3. Need to keep the wife angry...Cliched but she wants less clutter and things sticking out of the wall.

 

If I had my way, I wish I could get 2 pairs of ceiling speakers installed as I have a pretty decent receiver to power it all.

But the person who did a recent installation said that we might struggle to do it. The ceiling does have LED downlights and so there must be space to do it.

 

I have been doing research about this and of course the elevated or ceiling speakers makes the most sense but I am limited by the above and wondering what to do.

If the ceiling speakers were possible, then they would be better for me than elevated ones.

 

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1 hour ago, cwt said:

If Edwards ceiling models are out maybe compromise a little to avoid the crap reflectivity of atmos enabled upfiring types ? What about shorter cables and a better designed brand than sony ie SVS  Elevation series ..

 

These avoid the signal manipulation of HRTF bass management of upfiring modules [ much better] and you can angle them at your listening position :classic_smile:  You want to give full reign to the capabilities of Edwards transmission line speakers if thats what youve gone for ? So filter rolloffs and slopes need careful consideration running full range or with a higher crossover .. 1 driver cant handle the FR of a good 2 way usually 😉

Cheers mate and thanks for all the ongoing advice :)

 

Btw I have ordered the 3 way Monitors (with higher end Danish drivers) from Edward but specially designed to be floorstanders like the Summoners. They are currently stuck at Toll couriers as I type this for the last 3 weeks. Its a real tragedy that he posted them asap but this crappy courier company has messed it up.

Hope to receive it soon!

 

Anyways yeah, I am now seriously rethinking the up-firing speakers. I will again pop out a LED downlight to understand how much height I can play with for the ceiling speakers.

 

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30 minutes ago, IanRM said:

I had “Atmos Enabled” speakers in my home theatre until just recently and thought they were ok until I installed in ceiling speakers.

 

Yeah I have beginning to see the same feedback from other reviews too. Good to see someone who has used the upfiring ones previously.

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I have the Sony SS-CSE speakers,I've used them as up-firing speakers on top of my Left and right front speakers, and mounted up high on the front wall (using the built-in wall bracket) firing down to the listening position. I found them to be a bit too localizable when on top of the fronts.

At the moment I have them on top of my front bass traps, sitting about 1.9M high, up-firing towards the ceiling, and so far this has been my favorite setup by far, gives a great sense of height without being localizable. I personally prefer a more "diffuse" height setup

I have had them for a while, and have tried a couple of other speakers in their place for Atmos duty, and keep coming back to these. I got them off Amazon during a good sale, and they have well exceeded my expectations

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7 hours ago, jamiebosco said:

I have the Sony SS-CSE speakers,I've used them as up-firing speakers on top of my Left and right front speakers, and mounted up high on the front wall (using the built-in wall bracket) firing down to the listening position. I found them to be a bit too localizable when on top of the fronts.

At the moment I have them on top of my front bass traps, sitting about 1.9M high, up-firing towards the ceiling, and so far this has been my favorite setup by far, gives a great sense of height without being localizable. I personally prefer a more "diffuse" height setup

I have had them for a while, and have tried a couple of other speakers in their place for Atmos duty, and keep coming back to these. I got them off Amazon during a good sale, and they have well exceeded my expectations

Nice one. I am glad that you are enjoying them.

 

Was the sound localisable when you had mounted them high on the front wall. Also I found it interested that the SS-CSE are the only "upfiring" atmos speakers with just one driver and no tweeter. More of the others are 2-way with mid and tweeter. Would this make a difference based on your experience?

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6 hours ago, Axl said:

Nice one. I am glad that you are enjoying them.

 

Was the sound localisable when you had mounted them high on the front wall. Also I found it interested that the SS-CSE are the only "upfiring" atmos speakers with just one driver and no tweeter. More of the others are 2-way with mid and tweeter. Would this make a difference based on your experience?

 No not super localizable when mounted high on the front wall,perhaps a little, but still made for a good experience, much better than on top of the speakers (IMHO).

As I have them now gives a great height effect, I tested them with Blade Runner 2049  and the Bomber scene from Unbroken and really liked it

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3 hours ago, jamiebosco said:

As I have them now gives a great height effect,

Then wait until you get proper mounted Atmos speakers - you will be even more impressed.

I had a pair of the Pioneer upfiring mounted on top of the fronts, got a bit of the "atmos enabled" effect, but then invested in a pair of Klipsch R-31SA and have them mounted on the side walls just below cornice a little in front of the MLP. Well, that has been an "eye opening" experience as to what correctly placed and setup speakers can provide to your ears, upped the HT acceptance factor a level of magnitude compared to what I had before.

 

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On 25/11/21 at 7:23 PM, Axl said:

Still looking for any opinions or advice here folks esp from those who have experience with the upfiring atmos speakers! Thanks in advance!


Atmos is a con. That's my 2c. I wish it wasn't, and it may be worthwhile with the right setup, but I have Kef Q50A up firing speakers and I don't notice them. Atmos in general though, is very specific, for overhead sound effects. So unless you're watching Blackhawk Down or something, you rarely hear them. Up firing speakers are considered average though. I planned to place mine on wall or ceiling aimed at the couch, but haven't got around to it. I don't know if i'd bother if that wasn't an option. IMO atmos speakers should only be used if you can direct them to the seating.

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1 hour ago, exitguy said:

Then wait until you get proper mounted Atmos speakers - you will be even more impressed.

I had a pair of the Pioneer upfiring mounted on top of the fronts, got a bit of the "atmos enabled" effect, but then invested in a pair of Klipsch R-31SA and have them mounted on the side walls just below cornice a little in front of the MLP. Well, that has been an "eye opening" experience as to what correctly placed and setup speakers can provide to your ears, upped the HT acceptance factor a level of magnitude compared to what I had before.

 

I had the speakers set up as front heights, mounted at the top of the front wall, and experimented with a few variations of width between them,and also had them on the sidewalls in my previous room. I've also heard a few Atmos setups using ceiling mounted and in-ceiling speakers and, though very good, it wasn't  anything life changing.  At the moment, Atmos is still too under-utilized in movies to make much of a difference (IMHO). I also had some small Canton speakers on swivel brackets mounted to the ceiling in the Top front left and right positions, but felt they bought a little too much attention to themselves

 

As I said, I didn't care for the up-firing modules on top of my speakers, but mounted 30-40cm from the top of the front wall, firing up and forwards into the ceiling gives a nice overhead effect

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