Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted September 5, 2021 Volunteer Share Posted September 5, 2021 I'm playing around with an idea, not sure if it's nuts. At the moment my audio chain is essentially: Analog out from DAC >> Preamp for volume control >> Analog in to crossover >> AD conversion >> crossover applied >> DA conversion >> analog out to amps I wonder if there's a way of doing the volume control after the crossover, that way I'd be able to get rid of the DAC entirely and instead of having a DA, AD, DA conversion in the chain, I'd just a single AD conversion. To do this I think I'd need a preamp (or really a volume control) that could take four separate channels of analog in from my crossover (via XLR ideally), perform simultaneous volume control and output those four channels . Does such a device exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripitaka Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 There'd be something like that sold for the pro audio scene, I'd imagine, in which case it'd be xlr too. Anyway, there are definitely people who know such stuff on this forum. Good luck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 That's similar to how my journey ended up with me getting a supratek dual cabernet preamp specially made with 4 channels in and 4 out instead of just 2 in 4 out, and he would only make it balanced with one set of channels. In the end I abandoned the 4 channel set up for what it's worth. You could buy two identical preamps and use the same remote control for both to adjust volume. There are only very few designs that allow you to pick and choose how many channels you wish to have in the high end market and you'd pay through the nose for them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted September 5, 2021 Author Volunteer Share Posted September 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, tripitaka said: There'd be something like that sold for the pro audio scene, I'd imagine, in which case it'd be xlr too. Anyway, there are definitely people who know such stuff on this forum. Good luck I'd need a remote (I neglected to mention this) - this may rule out a lot of pro-audio gear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripitaka Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 Just now, sir sanders zingmore said: I'd need a remote (I neglected to mention this) - this may rule out a lot of pro-audio gear Ah yes.... Ok that's tricky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted September 5, 2021 Author Volunteer Share Posted September 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ittaku said: That's similar to how my journey ended up with me getting a supratek dual cabernet preamp specially made with 4 channels in and 4 out instead of just 2 in 4 out, and he would only make it balanced with one set of channels. In the end I abandoned the 4 channel set up for what it's worth. You could buy two identical preamps and use the same remote control for both to adjust volume. There are only very few designs that allow you to pick and choose how many channels you wish to have in the high end market and you'd pay through the nose for them. It was actually seeing your supratek advertised that made me think of it! Should've spoken to you earlier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: It was actually seeing your supratek advertised that made me think of it! Should've spoken to you earlier There was no volume control on the second set of channels. He kind of screwed up that request twice I might add, so I used it as a glorified buffer instead... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripitaka Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 1 hour ago, sir sanders zingmore said: I'd need a remote (I neglected to mention this) - this may rule out a lot of pro-audio gear @andyr does something like @Ittaku's suggestion of running two seperate vol controls from the same remote - seems ok though they can get out of sync with one another, requiring manual adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioGeek Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 What are you using for digital crossover? Many of these devices usually have a volume control, particularly with digital input. The higher end minidsp units should work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted September 5, 2021 Author Volunteer Share Posted September 5, 2021 1 hour ago, AudioGeek said: What are you using for digital crossover? Many of these devices usually have a volume control, particularly with digital input. The higher end minidsp units should work. I’m using a DBX venu360. No volume control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said: I'm playing around with an idea, not sure if it's nuts. At the moment my audio chain is essentially: Analog out from DAC >> Preamp for volume control >> Analog in to crossover >> AD conversion >> crossover applied >> DA conversion >> analog out to amps I wonder if there's a way of doing the volume control after the crossover, that way I'd be able to get rid of the DAC entirely and instead of having a DA, AD, DA conversion in the chain, I'd just a single AD conversion. To do this I think I'd need a preamp (or really a volume control) that could take four separate channels of analog in from my crossover (via XLR ideally), perform simultaneous volume control and output those four channels . Does such a device exist? I made up such a device for my system, Trev - that I'm no longer using. Analog in ... digitally controlled, analog volume control ... analog out. However: it's actually 8 channel, not 4. it has a tube buffer on 4 of the 8 channels (which I used for my Maggie mids & ribbons). it's RCA in & RCA out. and it is remotely controlled (I got it talking to my Harmony remote - which is set up as a Sony TV remote). PM me if you are interested. I'm no longer using it as my DACs (now external to my miniDSP unit) have a volume function. As you only need 4 channels, you have the option of using: the 4 'channels' which have the tube buffers the 4 channels which don't or a combination of both. Andy Edited September 6, 2021 by andyr 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereo coffee Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 15 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said: I'm playing around with an idea, not sure if it's nuts. At the moment my audio chain is essentially: Analog out from DAC >> Preamp for volume control >> Analog in to crossover >> AD conversion >> crossover applied >> DA conversion >> analog out to amps I wonder if there's a way of doing the volume control after the crossover, that way I'd be able to get rid of the DAC entirely and instead of having a DA, AD, DA conversion in the chain, I'd just a single AD conversion. To do this I think I'd need a preamp (or really a volume control) that could take four separate channels of analog in from my crossover (via XLR ideally), perform simultaneous volume control and output those four channels . Does such a device exist? Yes, you could use 4 single input SC kits , unbalanced, arrange each to have series and shunt cathodes allowing simultaneous attenuation via a alps 4 gang, If you need balanced in arrange 8x INA 105 devices to sum hot and cold as unbalanced, attenuate in the middle as unbalanced using the 4 aforementioned kits which form a L pad , then following output of each arrange 4 x DRV134 boards to provide hot and cold output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted September 6, 2021 Author Volunteer Share Posted September 6, 2021 14 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said: I’m using a DBX venu360. No volume control Just to complicate things, it turns out the Venu360 can only accept digital-in via AES input. My Topping D10 ave convert USB to Spdif (coax or digital). Is it possible to simply use an adapter to convert SPDIF coax to AES? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zydeco Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 23 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said: I'm playing around with an idea, not sure if it's nuts. At the moment my audio chain is essentially: Analog out from DAC >> Preamp for volume control >> Analog in to crossover >> AD conversion >> crossover applied >> DA conversion >> analog out to amps I wonder if there's a way of doing the volume control after the crossover, that way I'd be able to get rid of the DAC entirely and instead of having a DA, AD, DA conversion in the chain, I'd just a single AD conversion. To do this I think I'd need a preamp (or really a volume control) that could take four separate channels of analog in from my crossover (via XLR ideally), perform simultaneous volume control and output those four channels . Does such a device exist? Not balanced, and only available second hand, but I’m using http://www.sound4sale.com/manuals/MVCManual.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizaudio Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 19 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: Just to complicate things, it turns out the Venu360 can only accept digital-in via AES input. My Topping D10 ave convert USB to Spdif (coax or digital). Is it possible to simply use an adapter to convert SPDIF coax to AES? Why not use a Pi2aes as your source? https://www.pi2design.com/store/p19/PI2AES_-_PRO_AUDIO_SHIELD.html Use a decent LPS, and you are rocking. AES out, and use Roon or similar for digital volume. Are you looking to maximise front end gain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizaudio Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 (edited) Or for in front of your amplifiers: Something cheap & passive https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001744018645.html Something not so cheap http://www.dact.com/html/attenuators.html http://www.dact.com/html/multi-channel_preamps.html http://www.dact.com/html/line_stages.html Edited September 6, 2021 by Grizaudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted September 6, 2021 Author Volunteer Share Posted September 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, Grizaudio said: Why not use a Pi2aes as your source? https://www.pi2design.com/store/p19/PI2AES_-_PRO_AUDIO_SHIELD.html Use a decent LPS, and you are rocking. AES out, and use Roon or similar for digital volume. I'm too scared to use software volume control, just not happening 5 minutes ago, Grizaudio said: Are you looking to maximise front end gain? I'm looking to eliminate if possible, a DA/AD conversion from my audio chain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggmeister Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 I have a solution for you, but I know you're not interested.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martykt Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 12 minutes ago, Eggmeister said: I have a solution for you, but I know you're not interested.... A pair of Avantgarde Horns with a Line Magnetic Valve Integrated... ?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggmeister Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 10 hours ago, Martykt said: A pair of Avantgarde Horns with a Line Magnetic Valve Integrated... ?? Zingali's 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizaudio Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Did you not like the DACT option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizaudio Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 13 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said: I'm too scared to use software volume control, just not happening I understand your hesitation. However if you only use a digital front end, its safe. You can limit ultimate output SPL via the Venue output faders. Roon can set a fader threshold, from there incremental up and down actions are required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizaudio Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) @sir sanders zingmore This looks like a good solution. Completely analog. https://www.turramusic.com.au/spl-volume-8 Then use these: https://www.swamp.net.au/audio-snakes/ https://spl.audio/en/spl-produkt/volume-8/?v=fa868488740a Review is found on this site. Edited September 7, 2021 by Grizaudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 13 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said: I'm looking to eliminate if possible, a DA/AD conversion from my audio chain Get a crossover that has digital input, and a volume control. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeyboi Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 If you're into DIY perhaps consider the Analog Devices AD8403 chip? 4 potentiometers in the same chip. Can be remotely controlled with external circuitry. Cheers, Alan R. AD8400_8402_8403-1502326.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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