Out of my depth with Turntable

[Aldrich Von Fausto]

I recently bought my first turntable from another SNA member.  For the most part, I'm extremely happy with it.

 

It's a Project X1 with an Ortofon Quintet Blue cart.

 

The issue I've come across is on some albums, on the final track on each side, I hear what can only be described as a fuzzy scraping noise that comes from only the right channel.

 

I've accumulated a collection of a dozen or so records.  The records are a mix of brand new and second hand.

 

The issue only presents itself on two of the records I own.

 

One record has a visible warp in it.  The other problem record is to all appearances flat.  Both were bought brand new. 

 

So my question is this, is the issue I'm hearing a function of record quality or is it likely that the problem is with the alignment of the cart?  Or perhaps it might be something I haven't thought of?

 

The cart was prealigned by the store that sold the TT to the original owner.  I've not messed with the cart since I purchased the rig.  

 

I appreciate that diagnosing these issues without seeing or hearing the problem is tricky at best.  

 

Thankful to the SNA brainstrust for any assistance that may point me in the right direction.

[RNWau]

Is the issue repeatable? In other words, if you play those two albums, do you get the same thing in the same spot? And both sides, or just one?

 

If it’s not happening on any other albums, my instinct is that is isn’t the turntable or cart. If it was happening intermittently on any album, then it may suggest something is on its way out in the cartridge.

 

Do you know many hours on the stylus? Have you checked those records carefully for surface damage on those tracks? 
 

Then tell is a bit more about the speakers. Could be that a cone is failing/torn/out of alignment on the right channel, and that it only presents when a particular pitch and volume are played. I would suggest trying another source like streamer/phone/CD on those tracks and see if you get the same fault on the right channel. That would at least eliminate  or confirm a speaker issue.

 

Lastly, what amp are you running…could be a failing right channel on the amp (esp if it’s vintage), although I would expect the fault to crop up on other recordings.

 

perhaps you could shoot a short video on your phone and post it to Youtube so that we can hear the fault?

[Mono Stereo]

I believe what you are describing is 'inner groove distortion', because you mentioned it was the final track.

 

You can try adjusting the anti-skate positioning (there are slots on the bar), but as it only happens to a few or very few albums, it may be something you just live with for the time being.

 

Also recheck your cartridge alignment, using the two point protractor that comes with the Project turntable.

 

Let us know how you go.

[Aldrich Von Fausto]

Hi Brainstrust,

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

I'll need to check the cartridge alignment as a start.  

 

@RNWau, I agree with you that it's likely the vinyl itself.

 

The stylus has seen between 250 and 300 hours of play.  The issue with the right channel doesn't present itself from other sources including TV, NAS and Spotify or Tidal playback.

 

I'll see what I can do to upload an example of the problem.

 

Thanks again for your help.

[TemaadAudio]

Hi,

- 1st use a good alignment protractor to to check the alignment, the best I know is a FREE download  & was developed by Conrad Hoffman.

- some LP are sightly convex & it could be the cartridge body is scraping on the LP surface. Try using a heave record clamp to overcome this. You can mock one up just by placing a glass upside down on the LP surface & then place a heavy object on top of the glass, say a small can of Beans

 

Cheers

[Tweaky]

Some albums regrettably have some of the music with the biggest groove modulation cut on the last tracks of a album [Especially 80's and early 90's pop with heavy synths], the original Australian pressing of Tears for Fears - Songs from the Big Chair I remember being a classic example.....they changed the track order in later pressings.

 

When I first played this album for the first time and got to the last track of the side, everything just went to a mistracking nightmare like I had never experienced before.....I was freaking out thinking the cartridge cantilever had broken.....it hadn't, everything was fine, I even went through a complete check of every parameter of my TT/Arm/Cartridge setup, and everything was fine.

 

I KNOW how to set up a TT and arm/cartridge, just sometimes it's the particular pressing / track, especially if it's on the final track of a album, that is causing the problem.

 

What are the albums and tracks that this problem only seems to appears on?

What downforce have you got your cartridge set at ?

 

I looked up the spec's of your Quinet Blue...the results below.

Tracking force range - 2.1-2.5 g (21-25 mN)
Tracking force recommended - 2.3 g (23 mN)
Tracking angle - 20º

 

Check to see if it's falling into the recommended parameters......hopefully you have a digital stylus gauge....easy , and more importantly, cheap to get if you don't from Ebay

 

This might help, the instruction and setup manual for your Project X1 TT

https://www.project-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/X1-Manual.pdf

 

The FREE Conrad Hoffman Alignment protractor is available from the link below.....why people recommend stuff and don't give links ??.....it's in RAR format, so use free win RAR to open it once downloaded.....it might be a bit over the top for somebody new to turntables....I'll give a link to another that you could print out and use if you didn't get the Project one with your unit.

http://conradhoffman.com/chsw.htm

 

I strongly suggest you join The Vinyl Engine forum, they have a separate TOOLS section where you can learn about all the various tools you can use to setup a TT, plus most of them are free to download and print out for use......some will need to be printed on A3 sized paper.

The HOW to use each tool is mandatory reading......Just make sure your printer prints any of these free tools at the correct scale, otherwise they are useless.....probably best to select Landscape format when printing for most as well.

https://www.vinylengine.com/

 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Tweaky

[rockpig]

Might be a build up of dirt/fluff on the stylus.
I know of another SNA member that I helped and that was the problem.

He had played a few very dirty records to cause this and was not aware this could happen.

 

Check anti-skate as it may have accidently been changed/bumped during the move.

[Aldrich Von Fausto]

This is amazing.

 

Thanks so much for all the help and advice.

 

 

 @TemaadAudio tried the cup trick as a clamp.  Sadly it didn't help with the records that had the final track issue but it did help with improving sound quality on some other records that had warps so a new record clamp/weight is on the amazon wishlist!

 

@rockpig I try and clean the stylus on the first record of the day.  Anti-skate has been checked and set onto the recommended spot.  I haven't tried it on another setting yet so I might give that a shot.

 

@tweaky tracking force is set to 2.2g. Don't have a printer so I'll need to get myself a copy of the downloads once I have access to one.

 

the two records I have issues with are 

 

Harry Connick, Jr. – Music From The Motion Picture "When Harry Met Sally..." (2019, Red, Vinyl) - Discogs and 

Disc 1 of The Seatbelts – Cowboy Bebop (Original Series Soundtrack) (2020, Red Translucent Marble, Vinyl) - Discogs

 

final track on both sides of each disc.

 

Have added another four albums to the collection since last post.  These are still the only 2 that I have this issue with so I'm becoming more confident that it's a disc rather than set up issue.

 

Also yes.  I have a Soundtrack/Movie Score addiction.

 

[rockpig]

You maybe right about the records being the cause of the issue.

 

The Harry Connick is a Music On Vinyl (MOV) pressing and usually their pressings are OK.

The Seatbelts is an MPO pressing I have heard they can be hit and miss.

But there is no golden rule about pressing plants as even the really good ones have put out some stinkers.

 

I'd suggest an experiment and lower the anti-skate to 1.5 and try the offending tracks again.

 

Fuzzy scraping noise is usually attributed to non-fill.

Normally this happens on the first track not the last track.

See https://www.analogplanet.com/content/what-non-fill-looks

[RNWau]

Also, I generally find colored vinyl to be a little noisier in general than black vinyl. I have a few copies of albums on both coloured and black vinyl and the noise floor on the black is always better, even after a thorough clean. 
 

I realize that this is not the problem here as the hiss would be on all tracks, but figured worth mentioning