Product reviewers - who do we believe ?

[B.A.E.]

Just read two reviews apropos Velodyne deep blue subwoofers. First on this site DB15 and second review on Nemo Propaganda YouTube relating to DB12. Contrasting opinions on the product Velodyne has delivered.

[Marc]

Trust no one!

 

 

Interesting. Another local publication also reviewed the DB12 and gave it a glowing review IIRC.  Our review specifically was on the DB15 however and while all the aesthetic comments would fairly apply to both models, you can't necessarily compare a review between a 12" and 15" subwoofer from two different publications with absolute confidence.

 

I don't like criticising other publications or reviewers, but while he got all the lolz in his comments with his review, did he actually listen to it? Our review was done over a period of weeks, by installing it in a dedicated home cinema and using numerous different source material from blockbusters to soundtracks etc. Once the lights are out (in a cinema application), who cares what the lip behind the grill looks like (though we did mention that too from memory)?

 

Our review revolved primarily about how it sounded in its intended application - I got the impression from his 25 mins of talking to the camera predominantly about the aesthetic, that he hadn't spent that much time actually listening - and was it even broken in? 

In his opening, he says they review from a 2-channel stereo audio perspective. In our case, we reviewed this from a home theatre perspective, in a dedicated cinema room and with movies (and cited material).

 

Ultimately, we are all different, and we all have our own preferences - after all it's what makes this hobby go 'round. To a degree, subjective reviews are commonly going to have differing outcomes depending on one's experience, preferences, and the review process itself. My advice is read/watch as many reviews as you can to simply get down to a short list of products. From there is when you should start your own auditioning process (albeit difficult in present times). I don't advocate buying solely off a review, though the manufacturers would love people to do that. If we did our job it was simply to present some more information beyond what you read in the marketing blurb, and motivate a reader to want to audition it for themselves (again, somewhat difficult at the moment). 

[B.A.E.]

My title ‘Product reviewers - who do we believe’ was generic. Salient points expressed by both reviewers. Your remark, ‘ did he actually listen to it ? ‘ Glib response. Product placement / paid reviews ( ? ) vs  independent analysis will always be an issue for consumers . 

[Marc]

Honestly, it was a genuine question. I felt, watching the video, very little commentary was allocated to the audio performance itself, which at least for me, is actually what people want to know about. Apologies if my post did not come across as intended.

[GregWormald]

Product reviewers - who do we believe?

 

This gets into my practice of purchasing equipment and enjoying music.

 

I used to insist on a home audition and was lucky that up until the mid 1980s that was possible. Now, my experience tells me it's not common, especially in the price ranges I have the ability to indulge, (and the zombies), so I do a lot of review reading and away-from-home listening.

 

I read to find out what's available to me. Then I read about that equipment and start to rate both the equipment and the reviewers. Some reviewers clearly know what they are talking about and the ones that also have opinions about music and other equipment that I know and like become my 'go to' group. As I start to really narrow my options by reading the more detailed reviews, I search out auditions—friends homes, get togethers, hi-fi shops, whatever I can find. Finally I decide.

 

When I get gear home, critical analysis consists only of "how much do I enjoy the music?" ... More?... can't stop listening?—then it's money well spent. Failure, and I swear at myself and start again. Fortunately I haven't lost much money on re-buys, but I sure have spent a lot that is "well spent".

 

I hope this helps.

[Dingbat]

In the world of technology we live in today, how does one know what the real truth is? Influencers, social media, conspiracy theories, information which may not be true spreading like wildfire.

 

Back to HiFi and reviews. Critical thinking. In the face of all that, it's the only thing you can apply. Don't rely on one review, find multiple reviews. Do the reviews correlate or do they diverge? How much do you know about this product yourself and the product area? What is being mentioned in the reviews?

 

Reviews are only one tool to try and work out if it's the item you want to get.  There's forums, there's friends you know - if they happen to be into this sort of thing, there's trying to audition or talking to someone in the shop, and finally, there's yourself. What do you have, what have you heard before.

 

I wouldn't ever rely solely on reviews. It gives you an idea, but that is all. If there are different reviews which widely diverge in outcome (as what appears to be here, but I don't have time to look at the source material), then you have to decide which one is more truthful for your purposes. Keep in mind too that you could read 5 reviews on something, they're all giving it 5 stars, then you buy it, and find it sucks. Ever happened to me, although not for a HiFi item.

[audiofeline]

Even if reviewers are being honest and unbiased, the perceived quality of the equipment being reviewed will be dependent on the synergy with other equipment in the review system and the room, plus the reviewer's taste. 

[SlawMan]

Depends on the outcome you want.  Some people want gear because it is popular and place less importance on performance.  Reviews in popular publications can make a serious difference to sales numbers.  

 

If you are after gear that reproduces sound accurately, reviews with no objective measurements or testing must be avoided completely.  There was a study done a few years ago by Harman showing that professional reviewers were (generally) terrible at critical listening (surprise surprise).  I have learned this the $$Hard$$ way.   

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by SlawMan
Clarification

[Ittaku]

I stopped paying attention to reviewers once they started reviewing power cables.

[sir sanders zingmore]

8 hours ago, Dingbat said:

Back to HiFi and reviews. Critical thinking. In the face of all that, it's the only thing you can apply. Don't rely on one review, find multiple reviews. Do the reviews correlate or do they diverge?

The problem is, you’ll be very hard pressed to find reviews that diverge. 
 

 

[SlawMan]

6 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

The problem is, you’ll be very hard pressed to find reviews that diverge. 
 

 

 

And even if you did, which one do you "believe"??  Is this a faith-based pursuit?  Surely not.

[A.K.]

Reviews, in general, express the opinion and taste of the reviewer. As well as, the rest of the equipment used, the listening environment and even, how many clarets he consumed..

When three or more reviews seem to agree on a particular product, then is the time to invest time and listen to it yourself.

..and yes, home audition is not often possible - especially with high priced components - but, one gets a good idea of the quality of sound on display at the demo room.

 

Measurements should be considered also, although, they're no guarantee for a good performance. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by A.K.

[Satanica]

16 hours ago, Ittaku said:

I stopped paying attention to reviewers once they started reviewing power cables.

 

You're on a roll.

[Ittaku]

6 hours ago, Satanica said:

You're on a roll.

Mate, I haven't even started yet.

[genkifd]

for myself, i am reluctant to believe reviewers (youtube especially) if they have an untreated room or even worse have no idea about treatments. also when they are bias with certain brands as its always in their dream to own one even objectively measure bad (being an objective reviewer). 

 

dont get me wrong but imo objective and subjective reviews are required. if you are bias towards one side imo ruins the review.

[MattyW]

With components such as speakers, amps, sources etc..... I simply read everything I can find online. Every single written review, forum post and user review that Google can find in any language and use Google Translate where it's in another language. Read between the lines for what is not said as that's often as important as what is said. In the end you get an overview though sometimes you just look at internal build, parts choices etc and take a punt where information is scarce. This approach has paid off for me far more times than I've ever been burned.

 

I don't really read reviews for cables though if I come across a thread on here that interests me I'll read it, or if someone who has similar tastes in gear (we all find them here on the forums) I may take a punk on something based on their experiences. Rule of thumb you can always move it one. Certain pieces of gear are just desirable enough that you don't make a loss or if you do it's minor. Anything from Abbas Audio is like that for example..... That said, my Abbas DAC2.2SE will move on only once I pass and my wife flogs everything. Probably the only other component I can say that of is my DACGEAR LDR Pre Mk2, unless it develops issues in time.

 

Course if I'm looking at buying a certain cable I'll research it where possible. In the end you've just got to trust your gut and take a punt. Gambling by any other name.

Edited August 31, 2021 by MattyW

[Satanica]

My thoughts, when one is a reviewer it must be tempting to internet search for already existing reviews of the product and if read this could be quite influencing.

 

I think Stereophile is one of the better reviewers as they provide some electrical equipment measurements of the product which are presented after the the human sighted review.

But, I've often wondered were the results of the electrical equipment measurements performed and presented to the human reviewer before they did their sighted review once again influencing them?

[MattyW]

1 minute ago, Satanica said:

My thoughts, when one is a reviewer it must be tempting to internet search for already existing reviews of the product and if read this could be quite influencing.

 

I think Stereophile is one of the better reviewers as they provide some electrical equipment measurements of the product which are presented after the the human sighted review.

But, I've often wondered were the results of the electrical equipment measurements performed and presented to the human reviewer before they did their sighted review once again influencing them?

I think they should write their reviews prior to looking at the measurements. That was it's not influenced by them in any way. Far as I know this is what they do anyway yes?

[Satanica]

8 minutes ago, MattyW said:

I think they should write their reviews prior to looking at the measurements. That was it's not influenced by them in any way.

 

I'm actually undecided and sitting on the fence regarding this.
In the end the idea is to get the best information to the reader and that doesn't necessarily mean putting the human reviewer to the test against whatever electrical equipment measurements are taken beforehand which they may get to know about.

 

8 minutes ago, MattyW said:

Far as I know this is what they do anyway yes?

 

I don't know.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Satanica

[Mpr_65]

20 minutes ago, MattyW said:

I think they should write their reviews prior to looking at the measurements. That was it's not influenced by them in any way. Far as I know this is what they do anyway yes?

There's a discussion on ASR regarding this point.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/youtube-the-big-measurement-listening-mistake-some-hi-fi-reviewers-make-soundstage-real-hi-fi.25185/

There's both + and - either way.

[genkifd]

some reviewers can be bias with the brand and others with measurements. so cant win.

[Mpr_65]

I just read two reviews on the ELAC Adante AF-61 Floorstanding

One says they lack bass the other suggests plenty of bass?

Nothing much is cut and dry in this hobby when it comes to reviews.

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/elac-adante-af-61-loudspeaker

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/elac-adante-af-61vr-loudspeaker

Edited August 31, 2021 by Mpr_65

[Guest thethrowback]

I would never buy a product based solely on a review and I only use them as a way of narrowing down the field before I audition equipment.

 

The only opinion that really matters is your own.

[Marc]

2 hours ago, thethrowback said:

I would never buy a product based solely on a review and I only use them as a way of narrowing down the field before I audition equipment.

 

The only opinion that really matters is your own.

 

Exactly this ^^. I read reviews about products I'm interested in purchasing or looking for the perfect product for a particular application in my other hobbies. From the reviews I make a short list. I take onboard all that has been said and try to cut through it to see what's being said that is consistent.

I think David Price says it best: https://www.stereonet.com/au/opinion/opinion-read-all-about-it

 

[sir sanders zingmore]

11 minutes ago, Marc said:

I think David Price says it best: https://www.stereonet.com/au/opinion/opinion-read-all-about-it

Very sensible article