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Network switches and cables


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5 minutes ago, Assisi said:

I am pleased that it was a great outcome for you.

 I wasn't aware that @evil c has a MSB DAC.  I wonder why he didn't tell me?

 

John

 

I believe it's been referenced a few times in the past.  At least I think it was an MSB. I don't have the best memory so I may be wrong. I think he got it right before I loaned my old modded Muji Studio DAC II?

 

Yes I find the music far more engaging with the ENO Ag also. Mines not going anywhere....  Got to resist the urge to get one for my second system now.

Edited by MattyW
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6 minutes ago, MattyW said:

 

I believe it's been referenced a few times in the past.  At least I think it was an MSB. I don't have the best memory so I may be wrong. I think he got it right before I loaned my old modded Muji Studio DAC II?

 

Yes I find the music far more engaging with the ENO Ag also. Mines not going anywhere....  Got to resist the urge to get one for my second system now.

I am absolutely certain that Clive does not have an MSB Dac.  He could be so lucky.  He has told me what he has but I have forgotten.

 

I am sure that Rich would be pleased if you ordered a second ENO.

John

 

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2 minutes ago, TDX said:

Isn’t it an Ayon dac?

That rings a bell.  I believe you're right. My defective memory strikes again!  :(

 

If I do get another then I've officially lost it. Then again,  I've just invested a decent amount in some Aurealis Spiral 8 speaker cables for this system so it's arguable that my marbles are already a distant memory.... 

Edited by MattyW
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40 minutes ago, TDX said:

Isn’t it an Ayon dac?

 

39 minutes ago, MattyW said:

That rings a bell.  I believe you're right. My defective memory strikes again!  :(

 

If I do get another then I've officially lost it. Then again,  I've just invested a decent amount in some Aurealis Spiral 8 speaker cables for this system so it's arguable that my marbles are already a distant memory.... 

I didn't want to be rude and correct you!,😉

28 minutes ago, Assisi said:

Yes.  Where are you @evil c?

John

I was quite enjoying the prestige of being a Stratospheric DAC owner!

Maybe one day!!,😂

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On 28/08/2021 at 5:28 PM, Stereophilus said:

Pretty sure the fake Nordost Odin Cat 8 is the same as this AmpCom cable.

 

 

My ethernet arrived 2 days ago. Swop the AmpCom's with the fake Odin. Omg, the difference is so huge that it feels like a veil has been lifted. Imagine I'd goosebumps when listening to Spotify's 因为爱情.

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8 hours ago, Jsen18 said:

My ethernet arrived 2 days ago. Swop the AmpCom's with the fake Odin. Omg, the difference is so huge that it feels like a veil has been lifted. Imagine I'd goosebumps when listening to Spotify's 因为爱情.

Be interesting to see how you like it in a few weeks to a month? Can you please post back after a bit of use?

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  • 3 months later...

Hi Guys,

 

Looks like discussions on this thread have moved to the other Ethernet/Switch threads but for what it's worth, this where I purchased my Cat8 Ethernet cables last year & I've been very impressed with them.

 

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649803198-finest-digital-solution-premium-ethernet-that-outshines-the-competition-no-risk-purchase/

 

From his post

 

The Telegartner connectors are the same connectors that Shunyata, Siltech and CrystalConnect use on their Multi Thousand Dollar Ethernet cables. The Telegartner Connectors are Impedance matched and shielded, to ensure the flow of data without external influence. The silver cables I have are 22 gauge and made in the USA by a Military Defense Contractor for an Audiophile Cable distributor that supplies me with raw cable. The surface area of the silver coating is polished to a perfect surface.

 

This cable is specifically designed for the audiophile market and it is the latest CAT8 Ethernet standard. This standard calls for individual shielding on each twisted pair and a braided shield over the 4 twisted pairs. It has a 10%+ Silver coating (not Plated), over Solid Core audio grade OFHCC Copper cable. This is greater than 25% more copper plus silver over a normal 24 Gauge cable. This increased, 22 gauge cable requires special Terminations that accommodate the larger cable size. The Silver cable's increased gauge and silver coating, offers up silent EMI/RFI characteristics and minimizes errors and internal reflections. The increased gauge gives more depth, detail and range. To put pricing into perspective, AudioQuest CAT7 Vodka which is 10% Silver and uses Telegartner CAT6 Terminations for 1.5 Meters, is $469 US or $620 CDN.

 

In front of x2 of these cables I have a Supra Cat 8 into my TP Link media converters.

 

Cheers all

Matt

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  • 1 month later...

While a few years old, this is worth a read to understand what you get with many of the more expensive specialist cables: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/340-audiophile-ethernet-cable-gets-a-marginal-pass-on-the-test-bench/

 

I used to have one of these fluke cable testers and it is amazing how often cables are off or under spec, straight out of their packaging.  I should hire one and bring it to a meetup at some stage so people can test their cables for compliance with the cabling spec and general construction quality.

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2 hours ago, BugPowderDust said:

more expensive specialist cables

It is not unique to more expensive specialist cables.  As well, performance issues may not be to do with cables per se.  The underlying design, construction and manufacture of cables can used to confuse matters when the cable is not an issue at all.  The problem is somewhere else.

 

 

Some years ago, I had a PS Audio DS with the first version of the FPGA OS.  Playback through the DAC with numerous USB cables would time out after short periods of time.  The time period varied whether it was a basic cable or one that was qualified as audio.  I only had one cable that did not time out.  It happened for many users of the first DS and there were many complaints.  Mike McGowan and Ted Smith’s stock answer was the failures were all because the cables were not USB compliant.  Just buy a Belden cable and everything would be fine.  Total nonsense.

 

After a time, a new version of the FPGA OS was released.  Every single cable I had never timed out from then on with the new OS.  No more complaints.

John 

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34 minutes ago, Assisi said:

 

Some years ago, I had a PS Audio DS with the first version of the FPGA OS.  Playback through the DAC with numerous USB cables would time out after short periods of time. 

My brother in law had one of the first Perfect Wave DACs with a similar issue. He also had a frustrating issue in that the library software used to stop serving up music for artists beyond about the letter D, likely due to indexing issues.  I couldn't recommend the PS Audio streamers on the reliability front in this experience and those I had after this.

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4 hours ago, MattyW said:

I like the look and the write up  of the Duelund

Edited by Niktech
Grammar
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2 hours ago, Niktech said:

I like the look and the write up  of the Duelund


As do I. Not too price prohibitive to give it a go either. Might try it eventually. Will see how I got with the Duelund I2S cable first. They sent that just today.

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23 minutes ago, MattyW said:


As do I. Not too price prohibitive to give it a go either. Might try it eventually. Will see how I got with the Duelund I2S cable first. They sent that just today.

Nice. I’d be interested to hear a comparison with your WW Starlight 7.

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1 hour ago, Niktech said:

Nice. I’d be interested to hear a comparison with your WW Starlight 7.

I may do a brief comparison. I’m currently running the pure silver AVPlay HD300 I2S cables which is ahead in terms of fine detail and transparency but is missing the warmth and body of the WireWorld. More a sideways step really.

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  • 3 weeks later...


On 9/2/2022 at 9:40 PM, Niktech said:

Nice. I’d be interested to hear a comparison with your WW Starlight 7.


The Duelund I2S is my favourite so far. Just so incredibly natural sounding. Only improved once I added Duelund power cables. 

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On 28/2/2022 at 6:43 PM, MattyW said:

I must say I’m curious about this unit considering the price….. I just don’t have any real need for it is all.

 

AU $496.58  7% Off | HIFI Audio Ethernet Switch Full Linear DC Power Supply SC Cut OCXO Constant Temperature Crystal Oscillator Upgrade
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mt02vfS

That does look interesting. I’m going to bookmark it and come back to it later.


For now, I have a Bonn8 switch that John @Assisi kindly sold  to me, and a Kraftwerk II LPS arriving to power  it shortly.
My Listening impressions are still to come. 

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I had a thought about Ethernet cables today… potentially a dangerous thing.  I am also putting this out as completely speculative.  But I would value the thoughts of @El Tel, @davewantsmoore, @BugPowderDust and @Ittaku.  Please shoot me down if I’m way off track.
 

I wonder if we are thinking about Audio Ethernet cables in the wrong way.  What if they are actually adding noise?

 

Lets assume our standard Cat 5e patch cable is perfectly transmitting digital data.  It has no shield, and no ground link.  It is an intrinsically galvanically isolated connection.  All is good.

 

Next, let’s swap our Cat 5e for an audio Ethernet cable, maybe a Cat 7 spec with external shielding.  Now we permit the potential passage of noise from our network into our DAC via the shield (attached to ground).

 

Bad right?  Maybe not.  I wonder if permitting network noise into the DAC is actually acting like the addition of dither… That is, effectively increasing the noise floor in the DAC to improve quantisation distortion and SNR.  This could potentially be audible.

 

Furthermore, I wonder if the audible difference in Audio Ethernet cables are due to the way they “shape” the noise / dither they permit into the DAC?  In such a way the cables “tune” the effect the noise exerts within the DAC.

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2 minutes ago, Stereophilus said:

I had a thought about Ethernet cables today… potentially a dangerous thing.  I am also putting this out as completely speculative.  But I would value the thoughts of @El Tel, @davewantsmoore, @BugPowderDust and @Ittaku.  Please shoot me down if I’m way off track.
 

I wonder if we are thinking about Audio Ethernet cables in the wrong way.  What if they are actually adding noise?

 

Lets assume our standard Cat 5e patch cable is perfectly transmitting digital data.  It has no shield, and no ground link.  It is an intrinsically galvanically isolated connection.  All is good.

 

Next, let’s swap our Cat 5e for an audio Ethernet cable, maybe a Cat 7 spec with external shielding.  Now we permit the potential passage of noise from our network into our DAC via the shield (attached to ground).

 

Bad right?  Maybe not.  I wonder if permitting network noise into the DAC is actually acting like the addition of dither… That is, effectively increasing the noise floor in the DAC to improve quantisation distortion and SNR.  This could potentially be audible.

 

Furthermore, I wonder if the audible difference in Audio Ethernet cables are due to the way they “shape” the noise / dither they permit into the DAC?  In such a way the cables “tune” the effect the noise exerts within the DAC.

You were right upuntil the last two paragraphs. You can stop the post before those.

 

Shielded cables expand the noise-domain and defeat the galvanic isolation of the transformer coupling, thereby allowing noise to propagate. That's it. That's the pitch.

 

Some people like this noise/distortion, but that doesn't equate to greater digital purity.

 

I've likened it to the use of valves, only you've got a lot less opportunity to tune that distortion. Sure, you can ask for opinions on which 12AX7 valve gives taughter mids and bass extension and you'll get some purchasing ideas. Ask for which router you connect with CAT8 to your switch, or which power supply you should use on your audiophile Ethernet switch in order to help transmit noise over SFTP into your streaming DAC in order to get warmer vocals and you're on your own.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, El Tel said:

You were right upuntil the last two paragraphs. You can stop the post before those.

 

Shielded cables expand the noise-domain and defeat the galvanic isolation of the transformer coupling, thereby allowing noise to propagate. That's it. That's the pitch.

 

Some people like this noise/distortion, but that doesn't equate to greater digital purity.

 

I've likened it to the use of valves, only you've got a lot less opportunity to tune that distortion. Sure, you can ask for opinions on which 12AX7 valve gives taughter mids and bass extension and you'll get some purchasing ideas. Ask for which router you connect with CAT8 to your switch, or which power supply you should use on your audiophile Ethernet switch in order to help transmit noise over SFTP into your streaming DAC in order to get warmer vocals and you're on your own.

 

 

I think you are unfairly misrepresenting me.  I never said “greater digital purity”, or that I want to justify power supplies or switches at exorbitant prices… The only “pitch” I presented in my post is that noise entering the DAC via shielded Ethernet could have an audible effect by acting effectively like dither.  

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