Should I install 13.2 chanel theatre size 6.5x4.5x2.7m height

[Ed369]

Thanks for reading this.

My room is 6.5x4.5x2.7m

Would appreciate you 2 cents on

Should I install a 13.2 in such room.

If not how many chanel should I install?

[hopefullguy]

13.2.. do you mean 7.2.6?

7 "base" speakers, 2 subs and 6 atmos speakers.

 

[Lil Caesar]

My room is of similar dimensions and I've gone with 7.2.4 - 11.2.  I don't think you need 6 atmos channels in that space.

[betty boop]

Depends what you plan for 7.1.6 if you plan the extra 2 for Ch(centre height) and TS(top surround - vog) then yes very much worth it as long as can access dts-x pro auro3D and imax on your processor. The benefit will be for any dts source, any pcm source, auro3D and dts-x support … you can even up mix atmos mixes with these … if want. Great even for every day tv, ton of streaming and music

 

if it’s for atmos and top middles … unless running 2 rows of seats the benefit is minimal … most folks report the top middles doing 2/5ths of stuff all most of time … as it doesn’t support dts or pcm or auro3D

[Ed369]

Thanks Folks

I am planning on 7.2.6 or 9.2.4

AVR Can play DTS and Auro 3D.

 

[betty boop]

26 minutes ago, Ed369 said:

Thanks Folks

I am planning on 7.2.6 or 9.2.4

AVR Can play DTS and Auro 3D.

 

good to hear. make sure can cover dts-X pro specifically to take advantage of 7.2.6 just be wary if going 9.2.4, . the support can be a bit lax eg some processors will only support wiht limited formats... so something else to check  also the benefit of 9.2.4 might also be limited if you already either have a wide scope AT screen with good width of or additionally wide enough spacing of fronts for front stage width as is ...

[petetherock]

2 hours ago, Lil Caesar said:

My room is of similar dimensions and I've gone with 7.2.4 - 11.2.  I don't think you need 6 atmos channels in that space.

Yep, if TS really wants to, maybe he can add a Auro Centre Top channel or a wide channel. But you won't need six Atmos channels.

There isn't any real content for it, and the room might be a tad small. Plus you end up with more interference, less power for the other channels and more cable costs..

You can run the cables first if you really want that...

[Guest niterida]

Yes definitely set up for 7.x.4 Atmos and add a VOG and CH channel for the others. doing 6 Atmos is pretty much a waste - if a movie is hardcoded with just 2 heights then it will only use, and if it is hardcoded with 4 it will only use 4. And unfortunately a lot of movies are hardcoded.

My room is 6.25x4.3x2.7 - so almost identical and I have 7.2.4 + VOG. Although I do find the room a bit narrow for surrounds right at the sides of the seating.

I currently have them at 103deg (as I setup for Auro initially) and I find that pretty good but dort of defeats the need for rear surrounds. I could tell hardly any difference between 5.x.x and 7.x.x in that config - the ambient soundfield was fuller/larger but discrete sound effects were identical. If I was leaving my surrounds there I wouldn't bother with the rear surrounds if budget was a consideration.

I found, and a lot of users on AVSForum confirm this, that putting surrounds about 10 deg in front of listeners (75-80deg) in a 7.x.x config is an improvement.

 

I am also a big advocate of using all identical speakers and if it is a dedicated Home Theatre you absolutely cannot go past Pro PA speakers. I have 9 Wharfedale Pro Titan 8 and a pair of Behringer B215XL (for rear surrounds) and the sound quality in my room is exceptional. I compared it to a $20,000 Krix Wall of Sound demo room and mine was every bit as good - although I do have multiple subs and a HoverBoss setup for my seats. HoverBoss is drivers mounted in the riser and sealed to the couch with inner tubes - best thing you can do for a HT and cheap as chips. see here : https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-tactile-response-thread-for-bass.3081780/

 

And assuming you are using a projector and your room is light controlled (completely dark) then I would also recommend a DIY Spandex screen - best acoustically transparent (AT) material you can use and again cheap as chips. Allows you to put your speakers behind for a genuine theatre experience. Mine is 3.8m wide and I sit 3m away and it is AWESOME !!

 

This is an old pic - screen is only 3.6wide and running 11 identical 4" Mordaunt Short speakers - which sounded better than when I was running with MS Towers and larger standmount MS (similar but not identical all round).

 

 

And this is more recent showing the quality of Spandex with just a crappy old 1080 Optoma HD50 PJ :

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by niterida

[Eli]

4 hours ago, betty boop said:

… you can even up mix atmos mixes with these … if want. Great even for every day tv, ton of streaming and music

 

if it’s for atmos and top middles … unless running 2 rows of seats the benefit is minimal … most folks report the top middles doing 2/5ths of stuff all most of time … as it doesn’t support dts or pcm or auro3D

Can you confirm that you've been able to apply Neural:X to a native Atmos mix? Technically, this should not be doable.

I agree with the single row comment. The decision should really be based off of where all seats are in relation to the room.

Top middles are supported in the DTS:X Pro spec though, which I assume we're referring to as we are talking centre height and VoG. They can also phantom a VoG, as LH and RH can a CH.

With so much content available in Atmos compared to DTS:X, and some Atmos soundtracks locking the overhead sounds, it's certainly not an easy answer for one or the other, imho.

[Eli]

3 hours ago, Ed369 said:

Thanks Folks

I am planning on 7.2.6 or 9.2.4

AVR Can play DTS and Auro 3D.

 

If by DTS you mean DTS:X, then it won't process more than 7.2.4. You'll need an AVR/processor capable of DTS:X Pro to make use of the extra channels.

[Eli]

2 hours ago, petetherock said:

There isn't any real content for it, and the room might be a tad small.

In my experience, the room is a great size for six overheads (if it has two rows). Having top middles doesn't push the top front or top rear any further away, you're just adding an extra step.

There's plenty of Atmos and DTS:X content that will use top middles - the sound can transition front to back, left to right overhead etc.

The complication lies when an Atmos mix is baked in. You'll either have it baked into the top middle area (which will mean the top front and top rear won't get used) eg. Ready Player One, or you'll have the sounds baked into the top corners of the room, so the top middles aren't called upon.

[Ed369]

I am using denon 6700h which can process 13.2

It is got DTS:X as well.

 

External amp to run front end for HiFi 2 chanel music.

 

Seems like there is benifit to install 9.2.4 as above comments.

[betty boop]

1 hour ago, Eli said:

Can you confirm that you've been able to apply Neural:X to a native Atmos mix? Technically, this should not be doable.

yep no problem... this is The Shallows .. using neural - X to go beyond atmos 7.1.4 to 7.1.6

 

 

1 hour ago, Eli said:

Top middles are supported in the DTS:X Pro spec though, which I assume we're referring to as we are talking centre height and VoG. They can also phantom a VoG, as LH and RH can a CH.

 

yes Ts/VOG is supported by Dts-X pro...but not atmos... where want top middle L&R is two rows and yes can phantom... but it still doesnt do what a discrete speaker does there and missing Ch also still leaves a hole in middle top and front above centre... and where Ch - Ts comes in   phantoms dont replace real speakers  but where Ch comes in is a height speaker above the base centre... it does wonders for scale in front image. fills the hole up front... which have to phantom as well if dont have. 

 

1 hour ago, Eli said:

With so much content available in Atmos compared to DTS:X, and some Atmos soundtracks locking the overhead sounds, it's certainly not an easy answer for one or the other, imho.

what i find is ... dts-X/auro3D and imax support SO much from day to day streaming, FTA to all huge back catalog of dts as well. I actually find atmos is rare vs the ton of stuff can use DTS-X and neural x / auro3D on  

 

atmos can still be enjoyed as is or upmix using neural X if want.

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by betty boop

[Guest niterida]

53 minutes ago, Ed369 said:

I am using denon 6700h which can process 13.2

It is got DTS:X as well.

 

External amp to run front end for HiFi 2 chanel music.

 

Seems like there is benifit to install 9.2.4 as above comments.

Yes 9.x.4 is ideal. I normally don't recommend it though as most posters are on a budget and it is a big step up in processor cost from even 7.x.4

But since you have the processor and apparently the budget I would definitely go for it. That is my ultimate goal too but I can't afford the processor at the moment

34 minutes ago, betty boop said:

what i find is ... dts-X/auro3D and imax support SO much from day to day streaming, FTA to all huge back catalog of dts as well. I actually find atmos is rare vs the ton of stuff can use DTS-X and neural x / auro3D on

really ? I struggle just to find any Atmos sources

[betty boop]

7 minutes ago, niterida said:

really ? I struggle just to find any Atmos sources

atmos is rare..when compare with day to day stuff likely enjoying... where atmos is there its great.... mostly will find on some blu-ray but more so on 4k uhd these days.... there is *some* atmos on netflix.... but its not full strength as you get on disc...there is some atmos on apple music... but i have found unless track was made for it ... its a pretty ordinary rendition... with stuff going on behind you and singers voice coming from ceiling and such whcih is all very weird ...for folks that like music and sounds coming from *everywhere* they are wowed by it... but i find auro3D lot and i mean a lot better at rendering music...

 

the good news at least with 7.1.6 where using dts-X pro is it works seriously well for every thing day to day...streaming, fta, and also all back catalog dts-HDMA stuff we have... love what auro3D does for old concerts that are mainly 2.0 pcm....

 

and yes in that way atmos is rarer an experience to enjoy for me...

[Guest niterida]

I haven't seen a single Auro source in Australia and only found DTS:X on a coupe of blurays - where are you finding them ?

[Ed369]

But sh

2 minutes ago, betty boop said:

atmos is rare..when compare with day to day stuff likely enjoying... where atmos is there its great.... mostly will find on some blu-ray but more so on 4k uhd these days.... there is *some* atmos on netflix.... but its not full strength as you get on disc...there is some atmos on apple music... but i have found unless track was made for it ... its a pretty ordinary rendition... with stuff going on behind you and singers voice coming from ceiling and such whcih is all very weird ...for folks that like music and sounds coming from *everywhere* they are wowed by it... but i find auro3D lot and i mean a lot better at rendering music...

 

the good news at least with 7.1.6 where using dts-X pro is it works seriously well for every thing day to day...streaming, fta, and also all back catalog dts-HDMA stuff we have... love what auro3D does for old concerts that are mainly 2.0 pcm....

 

and yes in that way atmos is rarer an experience to enjoy for me...

Where would you suggest the location for the last 2 chanels.

As 9.2.4

 

[Guest niterida]

2 minutes ago, Ed369 said:

Where would you suggest the location for the last 2 chanels.

As 9.2.4

 

Draw a straight line for your surround to the front speaker and put the wides (the extra 2) halfway along that line. Or somewhere around there as best you can in your room.

Edited August 19, 2021 by niterida

[Ed369]

3 minutes ago, niterida said:

Draw a straight line for your surround to the front speaker and put the wides (the extra 2) halfway along that line. Or somewhere around there as best you can in your room.

Cool, i was suggest the imax speakers on the side wall near left and right chanels

[Ed369]

However in the 13.2 setting,there is other options of single speaker in the middle of ceilling and centre.chanel above screen.

 

I am new to those, very confusing sometimes.

 

Made mistake for my first system dont want the same mistake again of installing speakers incorrectly located

[betty boop]

15 minutes ago, niterida said:

I haven't seen a single Auro source in Australia and only found DTS:X on a coupe of blurays - where are you finding them ?

auro3D focus is music but there are auro 3D movies i have and have on order... sites like turbine DE have these... also plenty of 2L music...but this would all be miss understanding the use of auro3D  ... auro3D it does wonders for music... bring front focussed... vs very fake sounding rear bias atomos does on music. 

 

similarly while I certainly have dts-X movies ... but the real thing with DTS-X and upmixing is that i use on just about everything every day... as mentioned above... I can post some experience with DTS-X if like...

 

dolby upmixing is actually broken on 2.0... there is supposed to be a fix and this has been announced officially by dolby and also sound united is working with them for a fix... but later this year has been mentioned... so until thats fixed upmixing 2.0 pcm and such is screwed on dolby better off using neural X or auro 3D both are better.

[betty boop]

10 minutes ago, Ed369 said:

However in the 13.2 setting,there is other options of single speaker in the middle of ceilling and centre.chanel above screen.

 

I am new to those, very confusing sometimes.

 

Made mistake for my first system dont want the same mistake again of installing speakers incorrectly located

what is your processor... this is probably biggest source of getting things wrong...  best to understand capability and how can utilise to best...

 

as per krobar who pulled below together,

 

Here is the current state of that table:
Key - DTS:X Pro / Auro / CH+VOG / VOG Only / CH Only / Max Independent Subs / Max Supported Channels

Denon / Marantz - Most 13 Channel models - Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / 2 / 13.2
Trinnov Altitude - Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / 15 / 16
Storm Audio Mk2 - Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / 15 / 16
Arcam / JBL Synth / Audiocontrol - Current Models - No / Yes / Yes / No / No / 5 / 16
Anthem - 2020 Models - No / No / No / No / No / 2 / 15.2
Monoprice HTP-1 - No / Yes / No / No /No / 5 / 16

[Eli]

1 hour ago, betty boop said:

what i find is ... dts-X/auro3D and imax support SO much from day to day streaming, FTA to all huge back catalog of dts as well. I actually find atmos is rare vs the ton of stuff can use DTS-X and neural x / auro3D on  

I think what you're saying here is that the speaker layout for these formats works well when using Auro-matic and Neural:X upmixers. DTS:X and Auro themselves aren't really supported by streaming, FTA etc.

Technically, Dolby Surround also supports streaming, FTA and legacy formats. It just doesn't support them for the VoG, CH and front wide (yet) speaker positions.

I too though find Neural:X the upmixer of choice for almost all media that isn't natively Atmos.

[Eli]

 

2 hours ago, betty boop said:

yep no problem... this is The Shallows .. using neural - X to go beyond atmos 7.1.4 to 7.1.6

 

 

 

Yes but you are pulling the Atmos mix down to Dolby TrueHD 7.1 then re-upmixing with Neural:X. So in doing so you're losing your overhead discretion. Technically it's not upmixing an immersive format (which can't be done currently). You're downmixing (or just not pulling out the height metadata) then applying an upmix. It's not upmixing Atmos.
 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Eli

[Eli]

2 hours ago, Ed369 said:

I am using denon 6700h which can process 13.2

It is got DTS:X as well.

 

External amp to run front end for HiFi 2 chanel music.

 

Seems like there is benifit to install 9.2.4 as above comments.

Even better, it has DTS:X Pro which lets you break the 11ch barrier