Dac and Streamer advice

[JPete9]

I have started a new thread on this as I am moving along this part of the journey quickly.

 

I am tossing up between a

 

1. Denafrips Venus and continue with Pi streamer, saving/waiting for a dedicated streamer in the future. Using the Venus as a base to build around.

 

2. Or, something like a Lumin T2?

 

3. Or a Denafrips Pontus and some other streamer, eg a Lumin U1 Mini - but this does feel like a double compromise. I think i am more keen to jump up into the next bracket and build around higher quality.

 

For now i will keep the amp and speakers, i may change speakers at another time but for now they are both staying.

 

I have very little knowledge of these ultra modern devices and i live in perpetual lockdown so in person demo is tricky. i need to rely on comments, discussions, reviews and buying online. So i really appreciate any and all thoughts on this.

[BugPowderDust]

The T2 is a great unit. I’m not the only person here with positive things to say for it. Lumin are also active supporting users on many forums (including this one) and the product is rock solid and stable.

 

soundwise, if I hadn’t upgraded to a far more expensive dac, I’d still have a T2 in my system.  I like the integrated nature of the DAC / streamer functionality and didn’t have a huge need for additional DAC inputs (only an old CD player that gets used by the kids in the main now).

 

the u1 mini is a great streamer and I think it’s only the external LPS that really differentiates it from the u1 which is a much more expensive unit.

Some third party LPS exist for the Lumin devices, including the T2 and U1 mini but beware this will nuke your warranty as you’re cutting wires inside the units.

 

I was never wanting for sound improvements with my T2 and I think LPS upgrades are glitter on your audio solution at best. I’m sure Lumin engineered a quality smps into their products but I’ll leave it to Peter from LUMIN to reply on that front.

[BugPowderDust]

@wklie tagged you for your input 

[maximus]

I've heard units at and a lot more expensive than the T2. Yes, they produce a respectable sound quality but lack the midrange warmth, liquidity and dimensionality of the Lumin, this just adds to the added emotion and engagement of the music. 

I've been buying and selling audio products for almost 20years, best product owned, nothing comes close as an all in one.

[genkifd]

my most recent purchase is the Lumin U1 mini. i have plans to upgrade to LPS but so far its awesome. App is ok imo reason i dont like how it organises my artists list. 

 

But its far better than my Oppo 105 in every way. sounds and functions much better.

 

IMO i should have purchased the lumin a long time ago if i knew it was this good. 

[Guest]

As you know, I would suggest you persist with the Pi and SnakeOil.  I am running my Intel NUC with tweaked SnakeOil, feeding a Kii Three setup and it is excellent.  It is my hope that my documented SnakeOil tweaks make their way to the general release; so it does not have be an IT project that we discussed in another thread.

 

Nevertheless, there is merit in considering a streamer DAC, and doing away with the challenges of connecting the DAC and streamer via USB or other methods.  The Lumin T2 is well regarded in the forum.   Given you are an Apple person, the Auralic Altair G1 or G2 should be considered (has only iOS app).   Another possibility is the NAD C658 or M12 which includes BluOS (easy to set up and use) and Dirac Live room correction (which is very useful especially in shared rooms).

 

You may already know that there are 2 tiers of products, the 2nd tier typically double the price.  The premium tier has better power supplies, internal clocks and chassis, which do make a difference to the SQ.  But like all things HiFi, the laws of rapidly diminishing returns apply and you have to decide whether it is worth the premium price.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Snoopy8
Typo

[maximus]

@genkifd IMO i should have purchased the lumin a long time ago if i knew it was this good.

 

Dead right, I thought my destiny was going to listen to a SACD player for the rest of my life, I just didn't trust  streaming,  too many negative blogs about it on SNA, Lumin put paid to that.    

 

Thanks Geoff and Kevin.    

[JPete9]

Thanks, so much to think about. I am reading and considering it all. Anyone using the Lumin on speakers with metal tweeters?

 

I went to R2R to bring some texture and reduce the digitalness? of other chip based DACs in my price range. This is why i m thinking of just going up the line on Denafrips.

 

I am going to continue with the Pi one way or the other, i will buy a hat and explore, but i am also keen for that slick appliance feel. Right now i am trying roon with qobuz and tidal and loving it.  I am thinking there is no reason i cant have both.

 

I would love to try the T2, but if i have to buy based on theory, I am thinking the denfrips is less theory than the others - i think??

 

Its my first big boy hifi purchase so i am pretty nervous.

Edited August 16, 2021 by JPete9

[evil c]

1 hour ago, BugPowderDust said:

The T2 is a great unit. I’m not the only person here with positive things to say for it. Lumin are also active supporting users on many forums (including this one) and the product is rock solid and stable.

 

soundwise, if I hadn’t upgraded to a far more expensive dac, I’d still have a T2 in my system.  I like the integrated nature of the DAC / streamer functionality and didn’t have a huge need for additional DAC inputs (only an old CD player that gets used by the kids in the main now).

 

the u1 mini is a great streamer and I think it’s only the external LPS that really differentiates it from the u1 which is a much more expensive unit.

Some third party LPS exist for the Lumin devices, including the T2 and U1 mini but beware this will nuke your warranty as you’re cutting wires inside the units.

 

I was never wanting for sound improvements with my T2 and I think LPS upgrades are glitter on your audio solution at best. I’m sure Lumin engineered a quality smps into their products but I’ll leave it to Peter from LUMIN to reply on that front.

The LPS upgrade is a very easy one to install.

Only one wire needs to be detached, and rather than cutting it - can be desoldered like the way l did it.

That way it is easy to reverse and go back to normal if selling without the PSU .

 

The Lumin U1 is fairly bullet proof, with a single large main board - and problems are rare and usually solved with updates or rebooting.

The PSU upgrade will elevate it's performance level to virtually the same as it's much, much more expensive higher up model - the U1 - so l think it's well worth the trouble of upgrading. 

 

Sure you could get a tech to do a 15 minute job, if uncertain.

[mjs]

55 minutes ago, maximus said:

@genkifd IMO i should have purchased the lumin a long time ago if i knew it was this good.

 

Dead right, I thought my destiny was going to listen to a SACD player for the rest of my life, I just didn't trust  streaming,  too many negative blogs about it on SNA, Lumin put paid to that.    

 

Thanks Geoff and Kevin.    

 

I have much the same view on the results that are now available from streaming devices and services (ignoring the Tidal MQA kerfuffle). Having spent a small fortune over a few years ago on upgrading my LP12 to a point where vinyl performance is superb, I now have an Auralic digital front end that is equally as impressive and maybe more so in some instances. Very enjoyable and so much more music available. I am sure that Lumin devices will give similar outcomes. 

[Rosco8]

39 minutes ago, mjs said:

 

I have much the same view on the results that are now available from streaming devices and services (ignoring the Tidal MQA kerfuffle). Having spent a small fortune over a few years ago on upgrading my LP12 to a point where vinyl performance is superb, I now have an Auralic digital front end that is equally as impressive and maybe more so in some instances. Very enjoyable and so much more music available. I am sure that Lumin devices will give similar outcomes. 

Agree, my LP12 and RP8 haven't run since I got my Lumin U1 mini, Synology NAS and Tidal working well, its just too easy and sounds damm good.  LP's still look impressive in their shelves    Just ordered the SBooster LPS Lumin upgrade kit.

[BugPowderDust]

1 hour ago, JPete9 said:

Thanks, so much to think about. I am reading and considering it all. Anyone using the Lumin on speakers with metal tweeters?

 

I went to R2R to bring some texture and reduce the digitalness? of other chip based DACs in my price range. This is why i m thinking of just going up the line on Denafrips.

 

I am going to continue with the Pi one way or the other, i will buy a hat and explore, but i am also keen for that slick appliance feel. Right now i am trying roon with qobuz and tidal and loving it.  I am thinking there is no reason i cant have both.

 

I would love to try the T2, but if i have to buy based on theory, I am thinking the denfrips is less theory than the others - i think??

 

Its my first big boy hifi purchase so i am pretty nervous.

I ran my T2 with beryllium tweeters to very good results. 

I’m now on a R2R DAC so I know the appeal.

 

I bought my T2 used and sold it 6 months later for the same price. If you’re risk adverse and don’t want to lose a pile of cash, maybe that’s an approach to consider.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, JPete9 said:

Its my first big boy hifi purchase so i am pretty nervous.

So, why are you rushing to get a streamer DAC?  It has only been a few weeks ago that we were discussing the merits of upgrading the power supply of the Mac Mini.

 

Now, it is a premium streamer DAC or premium DAC, plus Roon to boot.  It seems like a big rush to adopt lots of new bits without learning what works for you!   While we can give suggestions, we do not have your system and more importantly your ears and your expectations.

[JPete9]

16 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

So, why are you rushing to get a streamer DAC?  It has only been a few weeks ago that we were discussing the merits of upgrading the power supply of the Mac Mini.

Cos i could wake up dead tomorrow.

 

I am compressing what i would normally do over a long period of time into a much shorter one. I am being indulgent and emotional rather than precise and practical. I almost never do this, i always agonise and analyse often to the point of not doing anything and running a stock macmini for years on end. This time and i am just doing it. So i realise i might not get it 'right'.

 

Most likely i will go with option 1. Buy the further up the line Dac, stick with R2R and continue to play with various streaming devices. I don't have anyone in real life to discuss it with, so blurting it on here and and just hearing other thoughts can help to clarify your own etc

[wklie]

Just want to add that Lumin T2 and U1 MINI support Tidal Connect, Qobuz, Spotify Connect and will soon support Spotify HiFi, in case you use these services.

 

I would suggest getting a Lumin T2, but of course I'm biased.

[Guest]

Some similar discussions here, worth a read

 

 

[Bunno77]

2 hours ago, JPete9 said:

Cos i could wake up dead tomorrow.

 

I am compressing what i would normally do over a long period of time into a much shorter one. I am being indulgent and emotional rather than precise and practical. I almost never do this, i always agonise and analyse often to the point of not doing anything and running a stock macmini for years on end. This time and i am just doing it. So i realise i might not get it 'right'.

 

Most likely i will go with option 1. Buy the further up the line Dac, stick with R2R and continue to play with various streaming devices. I don't have anyone in real life to discuss it with, so blurting it on here and and just hearing other thoughts can help to clarify your own etc

Not a bad plan at all. Do it properly and do it once.

 

Try to audition if you can though.

[JPete9]

Thanks for the tips and inputs, I appreciate it all. i guess my approach is not conventional. Just doing what i can.

 

Sadly i cant audition, Melb lockdown is at least 2 weeks away and even then who knows. Last year it was 100 days plus.

 

I like the idea of the T2, there is so much support for it and financially it would be least risky, but i am cautious about Sabre and the big change in direction and i do like the Ares2. So i ordered the Venus2. This will leave me plenty of options (at lower price points) to explore the Pi (i am keen on PI2AES for example) and the various software (currently switching between snakeoil and ropiee daily) and some other streamers. eg Sotm, U1 etc

 

I am starting to think about trying some modern speakers...maybe next year. I wouldn't consider speakers without audition.

 

 

[Guest]

Not too late to change your mind...

[JPete9]

Thanks i saw it. I could get it and try both and sell one, but, I am happy to continue with raspberry and the DAC for now. I have PI2AES and the Pi so i am content playing around with the possibilities for now. Might just be the longest and most expensive path to a T2 or similar anyway but its the journey not the destination right?

 

I will re think it when hi res streaming of spotify and apple exists on these devices. (i already have access to accounts for both).

 

EDIT: Plus i might shift my attention to a new set of not monitor speakers at some point instead of more devices. I am waiting for lockdown to go in a demo some.

Edited August 24, 2021 by JPete9

[wklie]

48 minutes ago, JPete9 said:

I will re think it when hi res streaming of spotify and apple exists on these devices.

 

We already have Spotify HiFi working internally, since we have been working on it for months.

[Jsen18]

Currently I'm using the U1 Mini with a Plixir Elite bdc. With the right combination of amp, cabling & speakers, I doubt I'll able to get the enjoyment without paying more than double the price of the U1 Mini. Btw, I was using a Dmd tweeters previously.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Jsen18

[genkifd]

Jsen18 - have you tried any other LPS? im thinking later on getting the Teddy Pardo kit.

[Jsen18]

1 hour ago, genkifd said:

Jsen18 - have you tried any other LPS? im thinking later on getting the Teddy Pardo kit.

Hi genkifd, nope I've not tried others as this LPS suits my system & taste and most importantly, it's not out of touch in term of financial cost. Cheers.

[genkifd]

thanks