Turntable Isolation Platform

[karmakat]

slightly off topic but do you use 3 or 4 squash balls under a turntable ?

[rockpig]

What problem are you attempting to solve with turntable isolation?

Foot fall skipping, noise, feedback?

Knowing this may help others give you the right advice.

[PKay]

On 10/08/2021 at 2:41 PM, balk2117 said:

A wall is the best way to go with turntable isolation but sometimes this is just not possible to some people. I run a Basis 2800 turntable that is located on a dedicated wall shelf and a Garrard 401 that is located on the rack.  I wish I could also locate the Garrard on the wall but unfortunately only one turntable shelf is permitted in my shared space.  

Looks great.  What phono stage are you using?

[balk2117]

34 minutes ago, PKay said:

Looks great.  What phono stage are you using?

Einstein "The Turntable's Choice " phonostage.  Sounds amazing!

[awayward]

I have recently added Monkey Noodles under my IKEA bamboo chopping boards that support all my equipment. Added it under my tt this week and the improvement has been dramatic, you know when you run through your mental list of albums you must here next, that’s a sign it’s been a good change. Monkey noodles are very resistant to compression and seem to isolate very well, just thought I would post my experience.

 

[April Snow]

1 hour ago, awayward said:

I have recently added Monkey Noodles under my IKEA bamboo chopping boards that support all my equipment. Added it under my tt this week and the improvement has been dramatic, you know when you run through your mental list of albums you must here next, that’s a sign it’s been a good change. Monkey noodles are very resistant to compression and seem to isolate very well, just thought I would post my experience.

 

 

 

That is cool, do you think they would keep the board level over time though and one end may not end up more crushed (squashed) than the other over time?

[bob_m_54]

2 hours ago, awayward said:

I have recently added Monkey Noodles under my IKEA bamboo chopping boards that support all my equipment. Added it under my tt this week and the improvement has been dramatic, you know when you run through your mental list of albums you must here next, that’s a sign it’s been a good change. Monkey noodles are very resistant to compression and seem to isolate very well, just thought I would post my experience.

 

 

 

 

Bit rough on the monkeys though...

[Warren Jones]

Isolating a TT is not just about feedback/footfall isolation. A TT is a very sensitive vibrometer, so sensitive infact if you put a scope on the output of the phono-pre it will pick up talking 5m away. It will pickup vibration in the building even on a concrete floor

 

Here are spectrum plots. These were done with a sweep through the speakers from REW with the stylus sitting in the groove of a stationary LP.  an unmodulated groove.

 

Blue trace no isolation

Red trace cheap eBay spring under the TT

Green trace a very small piece of soft foam in the spring cage

 

Springs are loaded at 50%

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Warren Jones

[Bass13]

1 hour ago, Warren Jones said:

Isolating a TT is not just about feedback/footfall isolation. A TT is a very sensitive vibrometer, so sensitive infact if you put a scope on the output of the phono-pre it will pick up talking 5m away. It will pickup vibration in the building even on a concrete floor

 

Here are spectrum plots. These were done with a sweep through the speakers from REW with the stylus sitting in the groove of a stationary LP.

 

Blue trace no isolation

Red trace cheap eBay spring under the TT

Green trace a very small piece of soft foam in the spring cage

 

Springs are loaded at 50%

 

 

Interesting analysis, makes me want to pull my finger out and get this done sooner rather than later, but again still not sue which way to go, I really don't want to use the wall mount as its to awkward for my situation.

 

This looks like it might do the job, has anyone got one here.??

ProJect Ground-It Deluxe 3

Resonance Free Equipment Support Base

Heavy Weight (13.5kg) Equipment Support Base Filled With Granular Damping Material. Delivers Resonance Free Support For Turntables And Other Hi-Fi Components.

Four Height Adjustable, Magnet Supported Feet.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Bass13
updated post

[Red MacKay]

2 hours ago, Warren Jones said:

Isolating a TT is not just about feedback/footfall isolation. A TT is a very sensitive vibrometer, so sensitive infact if you put a scope on the output of the phono-pre it will pick up talking 5m away. It will pickup vibration in the building even on a concrete floor

 

Here are spectrum plots. These were done with a sweep through the speakers from REW with the stylus sitting in the groove of a stationary LP.

 

Blue trace no isolation

Red trace cheap eBay spring under the TT

Green trace a very small piece of soft foam in the spring cage

 

Springs are loaded at 50%

 

 

That green line is really interesting!

 

A long time back, I ran a Goldmund Studio with a SME V which has sprung suspension.  The sound was always OK - but far from great .  A little while later a friend suggested some foam into the springs, not too much, but just enough to take the 'boing' out like a shock absorber.

 

We had some 2" open cell vacuum foam where I worked so I cut some up and fitted.  WOW - what an improved difference.  So yes - this concept definitely works and the green line in Warren's pic is the proof.

[Candyflip]

6 hours ago, Warren Jones said:

Isolating a TT is not just about feedback/footfall isolation. A TT is a very sensitive vibrometer, so sensitive infact if you put a scope on the output of the phono-pre it will pick up talking 5m away. It will pickup vibration in the building even on a concrete floor

 

Here are spectrum plots. These were done with a sweep through the speakers from REW with the stylus sitting in the groove of a stationary LP.

 

Blue trace no isolation

Red trace cheap eBay spring under the TT

Green trace a very small piece of soft foam in the spring cage

 

Springs are loaded at 50%

 

 

I've always wondered about why he didn't publish the purple and orange lines (Sweep 6 & 9) on his graph - you can see the tabs are there but he chose not to plot it.

The orange one had very similar output to the green line, and both used foam (according to his labels), so I'm guessing that's why he didn't plot that.
Not sure about Sweep 6 though?

 

Either way, I'm keep to use some foam on my springs shortly: I'm thinking memory foam might do the trick.

Will probably try it and regular packing foam and see what differences occur.

[audiofeline]

9 minutes ago, Candyflip said:

...Either way, I'm keep to use some foam on my springs shortly: I'm thinking memory foam might do the trick.

Will probably try it and regular packing foam and see what differences occur.

All foams are not equal.  I'm partial to the dark grey foam sold at Clark Rubber, they said it's the highest grade that's used for cushioning high-tech devices and doesn't degrade with time. 

 

I recall when I made a woodwind musical instrument case when I was young, and I used the yellow foam common at the time (and still common now).  I was horrified when I opened the case after not opening it for a decade only to find the foam had deteriorated and the sticky substance was all over the instrument I was trying to protect. 

 

[Warren Jones]

1 hour ago, Candyflip said:

 

I've always wondered about why he didn't publish the purple and orange lines (Sweep 6 & 9) on his graph - you can see the tabs are there but he chose not to plot it.

 

 

The other sweeps were different amounts of foam and other tests while I was testing for best performance. Unfortunately the laptop with the REW file is dead so the original file is gone.

 

Also the testes were done with the stylus in an unmodulated groove not a stationary LP.

 

I used is very soft memory foam in the cage. It's only job is to damp any ringing in the springs.

[Candyflip]

33 minutes ago, Warren Jones said:

 

The other sweeps were different amounts of foam and other tests while I was testing for best performance. Unfortunately the laptop with the REW file is dead so the original file is gone.

 

Also the testes were done with the stylus in an unmodulated groove not a stationary LP.

 

I used is very soft memory foam in the cage. It's only job is to damp any ringing in the springs.

 

Oh nice Warren - apologies I didn't realise this was your original work.

I saw the graph published at Audiokarma but never got the link to yourself.  

 

So something as simple as those cheap little springs from eBay, with small pieces of very soft memory foam (like those used in the cheapo $13 memory foam face masks) inserted in the springs, should mimic your tests?  Keen to give that a go, if so.

[Warren Jones]

I posted it here and AK to help folk isolate their TT with minimum cost.

 

Yes those cheap $40 eBay springs and any very soft foam.

 

I found hard foam bypassed the springs as did too much soft foam. The foam needs to JUST touch each spring. My springs have 5 in each cage on the platter side and 4 in the tonearm side. The foam sits in the middle.

 

 

[Marc]

I haven't used them, but have seen these get recommended: https://www.essecidesign.it/

 

[awayward]

On 13/08/2021 at 8:03 PM, April Snow said:

That is cool, do you think they would keep the board level over time though and one end may not end up more crushed (squashed) than the other over time?

Time will tell, but I have been using the noodles for many years for another purpose, smaller pieces supporting 4kg and there hasn’t been any deterioration in the level of support.

[April Snow]

10 minutes ago, awayward said:

Time will tell, but I have been using the noodles for many years for another purpose, smaller pieces supporting 4kg and there hasn’t been any deterioration in the level of support.

Oh I imagine that would be fine for that sort of weight I was looking at my Technics and thought that would never work as that is just under 12kg. Sounds like you are on a winner then 

[awayward]

15 minutes ago, April Snow said:

Oh I imagine that would be fine for that sort of weight I was looking at my Technics and thought that would never work as that is just under 12kg. Sounds like you are on a winner then 

I have the same setup under three of my other components which are 10kg each, nice improvements for my dac and pre amp, not so much for my phono pre amp.

12kg would not be an issue, I use one noodle cut into 4 pieces on each board, perhaps use 2 noodles cut in half for the 12kg, there are 5 noodles in a pack, just make sure you get the same brand as some are different diameter and length.

[lumholtzii]

Very interesting results. Nice thinking. ... i just wanted to check that I was reading the thread correctly.  Units like these ??

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/392952088476?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-139619-5960-0&mkcid=2&itemid=392952088476&targetid=1280421173959&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9071358&poi=&campaignid=12499394795&mkgroupid=123469081380&rlsatarget=pla-1280421173959&abcId=9300512&merchantid=7364522&gclid=CjwKCAjw092IBhAwEiwAxR1lRvgI8vHU5qlkQLAK-6bCvvIpaG4Z0A9yTB6qIa044nMOBqlapBpiCBoCOZ0QAvD_BwE

[Candyflip]

25 minutes ago, lumholtzii said:

Very interesting results. Nice thinking. ... i just wanted to check that I was reading the thread correctly.  Units like these ??

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/392952088476?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-139619-5960-0&mkcid=2&itemid=392952088476&targetid=1280421173959&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9071358&poi=&campaignid=12499394795&mkgroupid=123469081380&rlsatarget=pla-1280421173959&abcId=9300512&merchantid=7364522&gclid=CjwKCAjw092IBhAwEiwAxR1lRvgI8vHU5qlkQLAK-6bCvvIpaG4Z0A9yTB6qIa044nMOBqlapBpiCBoCOZ0QAvD_BwE

 

Yes, but don't get the ugly ones.

Get these machined alloy ones instead:  https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/253878827916 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Candyflip

[Warren Jones]

Here is my isolation setup. It's 2.6m tall. The TT is hung from shock cord. It has 6 DOF and is constrained to 18mm of vertical and horizontal movement. There are stops to prevent the TT from turning upside down.

 

I still have a few teething issues to sort out and then a coat of paint. The isolation is about 0.6Hz.

 

The improvement is significantly audible.

 

[wen]

wow, thats some effort Warren, but as you say , worth it, impressed

[qlder75]

On 10/08/2021 at 2:00 AM, GregWormald said:

I suspect it depends on the suspension of the t/t itself. I know that suspended tables like the Linn generally sound better on a light rigid table. Heavy and heavily damped table supports can make them sound dull.

 

I was actually about to ask forum members about this.

 

I am considering a new Linn LP12 and was hoping for some advice regarding stands and isolation etc.  I was going to simply place in on the light rigid timber stand I have my amp and phono stage on as I did with my very old TT.

 

Any thoughts/advice? 

[Wimbo]

38 minutes ago, qlder75 said:

 

I was actually about to ask forum members about this.

 

I am considering a new Linn LP12 and was hoping for some advice regarding stands and isolation etc.  I was going to simply place in on the light rigid timber stand I have my amp and phono stage on as I did with my very old TT.

 

Any thoughts/advice? 

I havent had a Linn for a while, but when I did, I used a Sound Organisation stand which was a rigid metal frame with a Medite shelf.