Roon core? Is it ok to do it this way?

[blakey72]

Hi all. I'm trying to work out how to set up a Roon network in my house and it's just confusing me. So I need something to use as a core right? Is a laptop running Windows 10 (Intel i5, 8GB ram) ok to do this task? I currently have all my digital music on a seagate external hdd which plugs into the usb port of the laptop. Roon is installed on this as a core. 

 

I'm running this laptop straight into my dac so I guess it's an endpoint too which is controlled by a iPad mini. So Am I better to move the laptop and external hdd to the network modem/router and plug it in there, then get a streamer to hook up to my dac as an endpoint? OR am I just paying for something I already have? On the other hand I've heard that laptops introduce noise into the system so should I scrap the laptop and get a NUC to plug the external hdd into? So damn confusing. I don't want to spend money if I don't have to but I want to get decent sound. 

 

What do you think? 

 

Cheers

Blakey.

[Frank Prowse Hi-Fi]

 

 

32 minutes ago, blakey72 said:

Hi all. I'm trying to work out how to set up a Roon network in my house and it's just confusing me. So I need something to use as a core right? Is a laptop running Windows 10 (Intel i5, 8GB ram) ok to do this task? I currently have all my digital music on a seagate external hdd which plugs into the usb port of the laptop. Roon is installed on this as a core. 

 

This will work and certainly get you started.

[a.dent]

42 minutes ago, blakey72 said:

Hi all. I'm trying to work out how to set up a Roon network in my house and it's just confusing me. So I need something to use as a core right? Is a laptop running Windows 10 (Intel i5, 8GB ram) ok to do this task? I currently have all my digital music on a seagate external hdd which plugs into the usb port of the laptop. Roon is installed on this as a core. 

 

I'm running this laptop straight into my dac so I guess it's an endpoint too which is controlled by a iPad mini. So Am I better to move the laptop and external hdd to the network modem/router and plug it in there, then get a streamer to hook up to my dac as an endpoint? OR am I just paying for something I already have? On the other hand I've heard that laptops introduce noise into the system so should I scrap the laptop and get a NUC to plug the external hdd into? So damn confusing. I don't want to spend money if I don't have to but I want to get decent sound. 

 

What do you think? 

 

Cheers

Blakey.

Start with the laptop plugged straight into your DAC. If you're not happy with the SQ think about getting a streamer.

A Raspberry Pi is a good starting point as a streamer/Roon endpoint and won't cost much except a little bit of time setting it up.

[blakey72]

5 minutes ago, Frank Prowse Hi-Fi said:

 

 

This will work and certainly get you started.

So what do you think should be my next move towards a good setup? Would the laptop be introducing noise? Is USB a bad way to connect to the dac? I had in mind either a Roon Nucleus or decent Intel NUC as a final core, am I better off just getting a NUC? 

 

And what about an endpoint for my main system? I'll be running into the Audio-gd Ref 7 dac so should I be looking at something like a Lindemann Limetree Bridge or a Lumin U1 Mini? Since I'm running into the same dac would there be much difference in SQ or is it mainly just features and app? 

 

And what's best to do first, core or endpoint? So many ways to go. Ripping my hair out....

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, blakey72 said:

So what do you think should be my 

And what's best to do first, core or endpoint? So many ways to go. 

If you can afford it and SQ is a high priority, do separate core and end points.  It can be an appliance or DIY (e.g. Pi, NUC).  Adding a LPS to an end point gives a significant SQ jump. Adding a LPS to the core has a smaller jump but noticeable.

 

However, there is no need to rush and get the above. Suggest using your laptop with the external hard disk first. This will give you some experience with setting up Roon and you will then understand how it works.  You can then take your time to evaluate how far you want go with Roon.

[buddyev]

Go simple first and get used to the system as Snoopy said. Usb is excellent. Most modern dacs won’t have a problem with this. 
You wouldn’t start worrying about changing cart on your TT until you were familiar with it.  Same with digital. 

[blakey72]

Thanks guy's, I'll do that I think. So should I leave the Ext HDD hooked up to the laptop or try hooking it to the modem/router? If I leave it as it is (HDD---->Laptop----->DAC) should I keep the HDD away from the laptop or dac? Where will most noise come from or am I barking up the wrong tree? ATM I have it all together (HDD touching DAC and Laptop on top of DAC). Is that bad??

[a.dent]

You'll have to try it to see how it sounds. It really depends how the Audio GD handles USB.

You may eventually want to consider getting another DAC!

 

[buddyev]

I have 2 systems based on my portable laptop & hard drive. They both sound fantastic to my ears.

On one system I just USB direct into the dac ( a topping d50).

On my other, main, system I go via ultrarendu into the network into the dac ( Gieseler gross).
But I am planning to go direct laptop/dac as soon as i get a decent rack. 
I can see no SQ reason to complicate things. 
 

Edited August 9, 2021 by buddyev

[AlurkA]

Hi @blakey72

 

My config is

 

mac mini -> internal ssd with music

mac mini -> network switch/router -> Wifi -> Raspberry Pi -> DAC

 

The Pi uses Ropieee which wasn’t too hard to build and configure.  It cost about $120 put together which includes the Pi Board, case and power supply.  Acts as a Roon endpoint and Includes Spotify Connect amongst other functions.  Pretty hard to beat as a streamer budget wise. 

 

The specs for Roon Core

 

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/faq-what-are-the-minimum-requirements

 

Ropieee in case you are interested 

https://ropieee.org
 

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by AlurkA

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, blakey72 said:

Thanks guy's, I'll do that I think. So should I leave the Ext HDD hooked up to the laptop or try hooking it to the modem/router? If I leave it as it is (HDD---->Laptop----->DAC) should I keep the HDD away from the laptop or dac? Where will most noise come from or am I barking up the wrong tree? ATM I have it all together (HDD touching DAC and Laptop on top of DAC). Is that bad??

A step at a time, but please get Roon running first. You can then listen for yourself whether the HDD placement would impact SQ. 

[blakey72]

This is how my laptop runs into the DAC. 

 

The thingy on the top takes the USB signal and converts it to S/PDIF I think. Not sure if it does anything else??? The bottom box is the power supply to the thingy on top, LPS perhaps? 

[wklie]

4 hours ago, blakey72 said:

So what do you think should be my next move towards a good setup? Would the laptop be introducing noise? Is USB a bad way to connect to the dac? I had in mind either a Roon Nucleus or decent Intel NUC as a final core, am I better off just getting a NUC? 

 

And what about an endpoint for my main system? I'll be running into the Audio-gd Ref 7 dac so should I be looking at something like a Lindemann Limetree Bridge or a Lumin U1 Mini? Since I'm running into the same dac would there be much difference in SQ or is it mainly just features and app? 

 

And what's best to do first, core or endpoint? So many ways to go. Ripping my hair out....

 

You may try to install Roon on your Windows laptop.  Make sure the Roon database is on the internal SSD.  You may add some RAM if you have a large library or need to multitask with other apps.

 

After you've spent enough time and are really committed to it, and if you really want to use a dedicated Roon Core, consider either a NUC8i7BEH or NUC10 with no less than 8GB RAM, smallest capacity of Samsung 970 m.2 SSD for boot drive, but not NUC11 (incompatible with ROCK), in a fanless chassis.

 

If I am not mistaken about your DAC, it is a 2010 or 2009 design and can neither play Hi-Res 192kHz nor DSD (if not using Roon DSP Engine to convert them to lower sample rate PCM).  I suggest you use a 1.5m AES cable to connect the DAC from the Lumin U1 Mini if you really want to keep using the DAC.  I assume you got the non-USB version of the DAC since you're using a USB to SPDIF converter.  Even if you had the USB version of the DAC, I'd assume the USB won't be compatible anyway.

 

Better yet, you may consider a Lumin T2 or D2 to simplify the chain and be able to play Hi-Res and DSD.

Edited August 9, 2021 by wklie

[davewantsmoore]

13 hours ago, blakey72 said:

Hi all. I'm trying to work out how to set up a Roon network in my house and it's just confusing me. So I need something to use as a core right? Is a laptop running Windows 10 (Intel i5, 8GB ram) ok to do this task?

Yes.

 

13 hours ago, blakey72 said:

OR am I just paying for something I already have?

Yes.

 

You may get better performance plugging a "dedicated audio computer" into the DAC..... ie. a computer or "streamer" as an "endpoint" ... and running the core on your laptop (or server or wherever) .... but that depends on your DAC, and isn't necessary.

 

13 hours ago, blakey72 said:

On the other hand I've heard that laptops introduce noise into the system so should I scrap the laptop and get a NUC to

plug the external hdd into?

See above.

 

A standard NUC would / could be about as a noisy as a standard laptop.

 

13 hours ago, blakey72 said:

So damn confusing. I don't want to spend money if I don't have to

Try just running Roon on the laptop (as both core/endpoint) as you originally speculated... and see how you like it.

[davewantsmoore]

12 hours ago, blakey72 said:

Would the laptop be introducing noise? Is USB a bad way to connect to the dac?

The bottom line is that this depends on the DAC.... and if it's circuit design is sensitive the incoming USB signal, or other electrical noises.

 

12 hours ago, blakey72 said:

And what's best to do first, core or endpoint? So many ways to go. Ripping my hair out....

If you have a "dedicated endpoint" .... then (if everything is working right) the core "performance" should be all but irrelevant.

.... but a laptop running Roon core/endpoint can be fine.

 

8 hours ago, wklie said:

Lumin T2 or D2 to simplify the chain and be able to play Hi-Res and DSD.

If you were going to replace your DAC .... then something like this (endpoint/player/DAC in one box) works well (and just run the roon core on your laptop).

[BugPowderDust]

1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

If you have a "dedicated endpoint" .... then (if everything is working right) the core "performance" should be all but irrelevant.

.... but a laptop running Roon core/endpoint can be fine.

Roon has many features available that can drag on the core very quickly. Depending on how many zones your Roon setup gets into or if you are going to do much / any upsampling or DSP, OP's needs with a Roon core in terms of performance may vary considerably.  No DSP, no upsampling, single zone, pretty much any laptop from the past decade should be ok.  

 

I run Rock on a 10th Gen i7 NUC and I can bring it to it's knees with all zones (circa 10) going and playing back a few separate zones with convolution filters and procedural EQ (gain +3dB) enabled. To see what I mean, there is an easy test: look at your CPU stats then turn on upsampling to MAX PCM or DSD and then watch the CPU wig out.

 

Starting on a laptop will be fine, but you'll eventually want to just shove the core out of sight on a headless device I'd bet. When you do it, the difference in buying a high performance NUC (as @wklie outlined above) and not isn't that much in the scheme of things. 

[sir sanders zingmore]

if you already run your DAC from your laptop and are happy with the sound, then adding Roon should not suddenly mean you need streamers/linear power supplies/new dacs/fancy ethernet cables. 
 

[davewantsmoore]

 

1 hour ago, BugPowderDust said:

but you'll eventually want to just shove the core out of sight on a headless device I'd bet.

 

He won't be upsampling or DSD (given his USB to SPDIF converter) or convolution, and hasn't asked about multiple zones.....  So I don't think so.    An i5 from the "Windows 10 era" will be plenty to run endpoint and core on the one machine, without even noticing that core is running.

 

 

[Guest]

A cheap and effective way to clean up any grunge coming out of a PC into your DAC is the use an IFI Idefender. I run a NUC I5 as my Roon core and I connected directly to my Holo Spring 2 DAC using the IFI filter. Very cost effective and should get rid of any sounds emanating from your switch mode power supply.

[blakey72]

9 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

 

He won't be upsampling or DSD (given his USB to SPDIF converter) or convolution, and hasn't asked about multiple zones.....  So I don't think so.    An i5 from the "Windows 10 era" will be plenty to run endpoint and core on the one machine, without even noticing that core is running.

 

 

As far as zones go I think I'll be running 3-4 zones I'd say. This won't happen until early-mid next year. At the moment it will probably be 2 zones, Lounge and bedroom. I have two old HP Envy laptops (the i5's above) which have been replaced, one is what I'm using as the core/endpoint in the lounge. The other I might use as the second endpoint with either my Topping D10 or CA CXN V1 as the dac. Pity the CXN isn't Roon ready. 

 

Next year I'll be looking at a Holo Audio May KTE with a decent streamer network bridge, Lumin U1 is on my radar. Audio-gd dac will move to the bedroom.

Edited August 10, 2021 by blakey72

[davewantsmoore]

1 hour ago, blakey72 said:

As far as zones go I think I'll be running 3-4 zones I'd say.

As long as you are not running resampling or convolution, then as many zones as you want will be fine.