My system is a bit to bright to me can someone help? thanks

[sir sanders zingmore]

19 minutes ago, Ozcall said:

Yes but there is still more than enough power at the 4and 2ohm ratings to drive the 802's beyond their limits (2.46 KW@3 OHMS with distortion way below 0.1%)) ie it is not a factor in the issue under discussion as far as I understand these things.

Good point. As I think about it I realise I don’t fully understand the implications. 
I might start a new thread about it (once I sort out in my own mind what I think I don’t understand). 
Thanks for making me think about this

[DanFi]

Lol. OP has left the building…. 

[sir sanders zingmore]

1 hour ago, DanFi said:

Lol. OP has left the building…. 

The OP is here. He just likes keeping us in suspense 

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by sir sanders zingmore

[eagle]

1 hour ago, DanFi said:

Lol. OP has left the building…. 

LOL

 

I agree, we must have overloaded him with too many suggestions, albeit good ones!

 

Whilst I don’t own the 802’s, I do own the 800’s of the same version and it could be a myriad of things including personal perception and choice of music type/recording quality. The speakers whilst not being bright, neutral as Steve M pointed out, won’t do any favours to poor quality recordings.

 

Choice of amplifier makes a massive difference, as does source and to a lesser degree cabling. They are very revealing and if not set up right, will never deliver on what their potential is. This can be a painstaking process.

 

I recently demoed the new Classe Delta stereo amp and whilst I preferred my current amplifier, you could really hear a synergy, as it was a more laid back sound and definitely had less presence up top that lead to a fatigue free listening experience. 

 

My experiences with source has been interesting.  Certainly changes the presentation but not to the degree an amplifier does, nor speaker position and room acoustics.

 

The other poster who mentioned balance in the bass is spot on. If there is a null in the mid bass range, and I suffer from that in my room, then it will  make the sound brighter 100%. I’ve done crude experiments boosting the mid bass using my Auralic streamer and it made the sound much warmer albeit with some loss of resolution, so prefer the non-processed sound. Subs could be a big help for OP if that’s an option.

 

Also, B&W’s are not for everyone and one might simply prefer a warmer sounding speaker like SF, Dynaudio. 

 

If the OP is still chasing an improvement, pictures of his setup with some description on his room design and speaker positioning would really help us all in providing some further assistance.

 

Good luck and wish you all the best on your journey

[7502dan]

I had similar experience with my Focal1028be and after spending big(for me)on other more expensive amplifier (from devialet to Vitus amplifier) expensive cables room treatment,i ended up selling the speakers (i also tried the utopia line of Focal speakers and found the exact sound signature that bothered me.I think this particular brand is not your sound,nothing to do with price.I actually ended up with cheaper speakers (Harbeth monitor 30.1)

[7502dan]

Just reading again your first communication, it looks like you did the same mistake as me ,trying to correct the sound of the speakers by changing other components. I know, how could such good reviewed speakers sound so bad to me?Ahh  well, live and learn. 

[Sandnorth]

Hello. Richard,

I’ve had similar problems with my system, albeit different equipment. The avenues of solutions offered by others have all been solid. All of these I have tried, copper cables, regenerators, power cables etc. These all made a difference, however after implantation the same problem existed to a lesser degree. Still annoying, trying to get a balance between detail and brightness.
 

If you haven’t considered the following please try. Your equipment may not be positioned or connected in phase. This will most probably result in the bass frequencies cancelling each other out. Leaving you with only high frequencies, a bright sounding system.

 

The three areas that improved my system out of site were [1] REL subs, one for each stereo channel. High output connection to augment the sound, [2] Finding the right location for the speakers to provide the best sound stage. Try using pink noise files for this or a bass heavy track. [3] A DSPeaker connected before pre amp. My music room has 22 corners, 2 doors [one glass, 2 cased openings] a couple of alcoves and 3 angled walls - not ideal. The DSPeaker analysed the room and adjusted the signal into the preamp to suit the room. Resulting in the base frequencies in phase and a system that can be listened to for hours,

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers, Steve.

[giteshb]

Hello did any solution come out of this as I am facing same problem .

I recently brought B & W 706 s2 speakers but I find them bright for listening to streaming music on my stereo setup comprising of harman kardon 3380 stereo receiver , speakers and iPad . They are causing me ear fatigue though rest of the family is fine !! 

 

I use my iPad directly connected to  my Harman kardon 3380 stereo receiver to run the speakers . On the iPad I stream Amazon music . 

 

I was thinking about some solution for brightness and I  read about mojo 2 . My question is that can I use Mojo 2 equaliser connected to my iPad for reducing the brightness in my stereo set up 

 

[Robbiefest]

3 hours ago, giteshb said:

Hello did any solution come out of this as I am facing same problem .

I recently brought B & W 706 s2 speakers but I find them bright for listening to streaming music on my stereo setup comprising of harman kardon 3380 stereo receiver , speakers and iPad . They are causing me ear fatigue though rest of the family is fine !! 

 

I use my iPad directly connected to  my Harman kardon 3380 stereo receiver to run the speakers . On the iPad I stream Amazon music . 

 

I was thinking about some solution for brightness and I  read about mojo 2 . My question is that can I use Mojo 2 equaliser connected to my iPad for reducing the brightness in my stereo set up 

 

You sure that's not an AV receiver? Looks like it gets very poor reviews in general. Owners are saying the amp is bright and lacks bass. I'd be trying a good, warm stereo amp. Maybe start with a Marantz as they are warm sounding. 

 

Wrong power cables and speaker cables can cause brightness and harshness. It's a rabbit hole. Some people are adamant that cables make no difference. I'm of the opposite opinion due to my experience and experimentation. If you've got speakers that can reveal all, then every piece of equipment should change what you hear, starting from what power cable you're using on the amp. If you're using a thick cable, start by going back to the regular crap black $2 cable that comes with most devices. This will be the least harsh sound you're most likely to get. You need good thick copper cables 12 awg. In your case, cheapies will do, as long as they're copper to start off with. These wont break the bank. As said, before start here. QED xt25 speaker cables are a nice warm cable if you want to go up a small level. Even your power board can make a difference. You don't have to spend a lot here either. Just be aware some can sound bright and some don't. Any power board that does RF filtering etc, will be brighter than one that doesn't. etc etc. I'd be getting a friend to bring over a spare amp if possible.. NOT AV amp. 

[Robbiefest]

1 hour ago, Robbiefest said:

You sure that's not an AV receiver? Looks like it gets very poor reviews in general. Owners are saying the amp is bright and lacks bass. I'd be trying a good, warm stereo amp. Maybe start with a Marantz as they are warm sounding. 

 

Wrong power cables and speaker cables can cause brightness and harshness. It's a rabbit hole. Some people are adamant that cables make no difference. I'm of the opposite opinion due to my experience and experimentation. If you've got speakers that can reveal all, then every piece of equipment should change what you hear, starting from what power cable you're using on the amp. If you're using a thick cable, start by going back to the regular crap black $2 cable that comes with most devices. This will be the least harsh sound you're most likely to get. You need good thick copper cables 12 awg. In your case, cheapies will do, as long as they're copper to start off with. These wont break the bank. As said, before start here. QED xt25 speaker cables are a nice warm cable if you want to go up a small level. Even your power board can make a difference. You don't have to spend a lot here either. Just be aware some can sound bright and some don't. Any power board that does RF filtering etc, will be brighter than one that doesn't. etc etc. I'd be getting a friend to bring over a spare amp if possible.. NOT AV amp. 

when I mentioned 12awg i was referring to the speaker cables .. think cables usually = thin sound. 

[Anthony1]

I tried a Nordost QKore secondary earth box recently attached with wires to DAC & Preamp and noticed that really helped sound wise to lets say synchronise the B&W speakers high and low end so they sounded pleasantly in phase. (As opposed to the mid/tweeter dominating).

 

As a quick fix perhaps is to consider an amplifier with a little bit of tone control to switch in as required if listening to a bright recording.
Would figure 160W/ch+ would be a reasonable size amp size to manage the 701 amplifier load.
 

Otherwise short term is closer to rear wall & speakers off axis a bit (not aimed close to ears). And if you can or have, some damping material on wall at first reflection point.

 

 

[andyr]

34 minutes ago, Robbiefest said:

when I mentioned 12awg i was referring to the speaker cables .. think cables usually = thin sound. 

 

I presume the 'k' is an error?

 

Whilst I agree with you that very  thin cables = thin sound ... I would say 12g spkr cables are totally unnecessary unless the cables are 10m long.  At normal spkr cable lengths (2 - 3m), I would suggest 12g stranded ==> a muddier sound than you could otherwise achieve (with a different cable).

 

[bob_m_54]

5 hours ago, giteshb said:

Hello did any solution come out of this as I am facing same problem .

I recently brought B & W 706 s2 speakers but I find them bright for listening to streaming music on my stereo setup comprising of harman kardon 3380 stereo receiver , speakers and iPad . They are causing me ear fatigue though rest of the family is fine !! 

 

I use my iPad directly connected to  my Harman kardon 3380 stereo receiver to run the speakers . On the iPad I stream Amazon music . 

 

I was thinking about some solution for brightness and I  read about mojo 2 . My question is that can I use Mojo 2 equaliser connected to my iPad for reducing the brightness in my stereo set up 

 

Are you using the headphone jack from the Ipad direct to your HK receiver/amplifier? If so, it probably has more to do with the output signal of the Ipad being designed for use with headphones. You might get better sound feeding the digital audio from the Ipad to a DAC, and then to the amplifier.

[Cloth Ears]

2 hours ago, Robbiefest said:

You sure that's not an AV receiver? Looks like it gets very poor reviews in general. Owners are saying the amp is bright and lacks bass. I'd be trying a good, warm stereo amp. Maybe start with a Marantz as they are warm sounding.

 

2 channel, does have video inputs, but it's from the mid-noughties, so it's all analog signals. Almost universally got good reviews for playing music.

 

I'd say it's more on the Bob line - with the connection of the Ipad. There are options other than using the headphone jack - I'm fairly sure I've seen Ipad Aux to 3.5mm stereo jacks, so I'm guessing that you could probably find one that goes to a pair of (male) RCA's. But I think that ends up being line level output (i.e. doesn't go through the pre-amplifier, if it works anything like Ipods), so it would need to be put into the CD or other inputs to be able to adjust the volume.

[bob_m_54]

18 minutes ago, Cloth Ears said:

2 channel, does have video inputs, but it's from the mid-noughties, so it's all analog signals. Almost universally got good reviews for playing music.

 

I'd say it's more on the Bob line - with the connection of the Ipad. There are options other than using the headphone jack - I'm fairly sure I've seen Ipad Aux to 3.5mm stereo jacks, so I'm guessing that you could probably find one that goes to a pair of (male) RCA's. But I think that ends up being line level output (i.e. doesn't go through the pre-amplifier, if it works anything like Ipods), so it would need to be put into the CD or other inputs to be able to adjust the volume.

Does the Ipad have an Auxiliary Output though? It seems they have either a headphone jack, or use USB headphones.

 

[Cloth Ears]

10 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said:

Does the Ipad have an Auxiliary Output though? It seems they have either a headphone jack, or use USB headphones.

 

The Auxiliary Output is the same as the charging dock. So for Ipads, it's what this will plug into (this is the 3.5mm output female jack)...

Edited March 26 by Cloth Ears

[Mr 57]

We’re a bunch of tweakers, my recommendation comes from my experience.

I changed from Quad ESL 57’s to Zu Soul Supremes, the midrange from the the Zu’s were not quite 57 level (no surprise) but it had far more benefits to hang in there with them to find a solution.

I too did a bit of research, and for such a ridiculously small amount of money, I found adding an equaliser the answer. I love this thing, give it a try, if not happy with it in your system you can pass it on to another tweaker amongst us.

Douk Audio T8 Pro. Some good reviews out there too, I’m so impressed with mine I added a LPS, makes the fun even more fun, and is that not why we play in this crazy field ? Good luck, you’ll find the answer

[bob_m_54]

On 26/03/2024 at 11:01 AM, Cloth Ears said:

The Auxiliary Output is the same as the charging dock. So for Ipads, it's what this will plug into (this is the 3.5mm output female jack)...

OK, so that's a digital out?

[bob_m_54]

Bloody i-garbage, why would you bother?

[a.dent]

3 hours ago, bob_m_54 said:

Bloody i-garbage, why would you bother?

 

I suspect some i-prejudice there. 

 

The Apple dongles actually measure quite well for a $15 DAC and certainly better than several very well recognised DACs that retail for 100 times the Apple dongle price.

 

How a DAC has much to do with making a system sound bright I just don't know. Room EQ ideally or a tone control are the obvious solutions.

Edited March 27 by a.dent

[Cloth Ears]

13 hours ago, bob_m_54 said:

OK, so that's a digital out?

I don't think so. None of my headphones are new enough to translate a digital signal. I think it comes out as either stereo or 5.1.

[bob_m_54]

12 hours ago, Cloth Ears said:

I don't think so. None of my headphones are new enough to translate a digital signal. I think it comes out as either stereo or 5.1.

The lightning connector is digital, but the adapter has an inbuilt DAC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_(connector)

[bob_m_54]

22 hours ago, a.dent said:

I suspect some i-prejudice there. 

I hate em wif a passion.. LOL

[Robbiefest]

On 26/03/2024 at 10:03 AM, andyr said:

 

I presume the 'k' is an error?

 

Whilst I agree with you that very  thin cables = thin sound ... I would say 12g spkr cables are totally unnecessary unless the cables are 10m long.  At normal spkr cable lengths (2 - 3m), I would suggest 12g stranded ==> a muddier sound than you could otherwise achieve (with a different cable).

 

For me when I go the thicker cables, my speaker handles the bottom end very nicely. On thinner cables, the speakers sound thinner, and that's often due to the less dominant bottom end. My system is not that prone to muddiness. 

[andyr]

On 29/03/2024 at 6:13 AM, Robbiefest said:

For me when I go the thicker cables, my speaker handles the bottom end very nicely. On thinner cables, the speakers sound thinner, and that's often due to the less dominant bottom end. My system is not that prone to muddiness. 

 

Interesting, R.  Yes, I agree; spkrs sounding "thinner" would be the effect of less low bass getting thru. 

 

How long are your spkr cables?