Richard Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Hello My system before B&W 802 D3 Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblock Benchmark dac2 xlr cable with that system I was not enable to listen more that 2h, with the new one is better but still to bright My system now is: B&W 802 D3 MCINTOSH C53 Preamp Michi M8 Mono Blocks Audioquest XLR cable I listen a lot of music from computer via my dac 2 build in mcintosh preamp, when I play music on my system it is bit to sharp and to bright, can anyone help with any idea what to do, shall I get some new preamp (tube one, never hear before tube preamp) to make it more comfortable to listen ? thank you for any idea.... best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetherock Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 I had the same issue with my 804D2, and here's what I did: https://peteswrite.blogspot.com/2013/12/how-to-make-bright-sounding-speakers.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted July 8, 2021 Volunteer Share Posted July 8, 2021 Speakers have a bit of a boost in frequency response around 10kHz. This may sound bright. https://www.stereophile.com/content/bowers-wilkins-802-d3-diamond-loudspeaker-measurements Also, not sure if this is relevant but the B&Ws drop to 3ohms. I believe the Michis are not recommended for speakers below 4 ohms 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCAJack Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 The first thing to consider might be your room. Does it sound echoey if you clap your hands? Are there carpets, curtains, and upholstered furniture or floor tiles, metal and glass? A minimalist design aesthetic with lots of hard surfaces can bring make for a sound that’s bright and fatiguing. Otherwise, obviously... speakers. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinilink Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 One of biggest culprit would be the source, I think. And to tame the brightness of the sound, you may consider other preamps (valve or ss) and with very limited experiences with Audioquest cables, I am not really fan on Audioquest. And, should put consideration into what @RCAJack said 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioGeek Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 What software are you using in your computer source? A usb microphone ($100-200), and REW (free) may help you identify the issue. If it is the bowers house curve - treble boost, easy to fix with eq/dsp, although its probably the wrong speaker for you. Changing other components is hit and miss and not a great way to "tune" a system. With dsp you can create multiple profiles for different source material, different loudness, or simply mood. B&W respond well to eq particularly the top end. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill125812 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 May I ask which Audioquest xlr cables you have and which speaker cables you use 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted July 8, 2021 Volunteer Share Posted July 8, 2021 8 hours ago, Richard said: MCINTOSH C53 Preamp Your preamp has a built in equaliser. Try dragging down that 10kHz peak a bit and see if that improves things. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakabatou Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 (edited) Have you got the speakers toed in? Reducing toe-in can help B&W brightness IME. I think they actually recommend firing straight down the room Edited July 9, 2021 by sakabatou typo 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 9, 2021 Author Share Posted July 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Bill125812 said: May I ask which Audioquest xlr cables you have and which speaker cables you use audioquest fire xlr speaker cable is https://viablue.de/com/cables_sc6_bi_amping_speaker_t6s.php thanks ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafad Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) I've heard of a few B&W 800 series owners who feel that they are too bright. Are you emotionally invested in them? If not there are a whole lot of speakers out there that are nowhere near as bright as the ones you currently have, I would recommend looking into alternatives. If so then you need to investigate the room (does it contain hard surfaces like tiles or windows), if so you could investigate rugs and curtains (the larger and thicker the better) and the gear. I don't have any experience with any of your sources or DACs or amps so can't say if they are bright in and of themselves but I can suggest you look into brands that are generally known to be softer in sound signature such as Naim, Exposure or Audiolab. Best of luck. Edit: Silver speaker cables also tend to make a system a bit brighter, they give you more treble, as do silver interconnects. If your system is already bright then staying away from silver is a good idea. In a vinyl or tube based system this extra treble can be a good thing, rarely is it a good thing in a digital system (at least in my experience). Edited July 9, 2021 by Cafad 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikhuong Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) "music from computer via my dac 2 build in mcintosh preamp, when I play music on my system it is bit to sharp and to bright" Your digital front seems not ideal yet, you have a high resolving system, source is really important, to many, source is first. If you browse this forum, many digital folks are fans of Antipodes music servers/transport from Kiwi. Discover your front end more, anyone says to know everything about digital or digital is just 1's and 0's are the one who has no experimenting or is lazy to try, or lives in remote places with less opportunity to meet up. Would recommend you to replace your PC with a proper design transport with linear power supply (Antipodes S30/S60 for example) and a decent USB cable, check out https://curiouscables.com, highly regarded cables from Aussie. Once you can fix this weakest link IMO, then it would be good time to further tweak the sound to your liking with cables or a tube pre. Changing speakers would be a big deal as you need to change everything again to match them, so work on the weakest link first as it is much more easy to achieve and cost less then changing system, sell/buy usually results in a considerable lost in this hobby Edited July 9, 2021 by ikhuong 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Slack Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) On 7/8/2021 at 11:07 PM, Richard said: with that system I was not enable to listen more that 2h, with the new one is better but still to bright Hi Richard, your speakers are too bright for you, and , indeed, measurably brighter than ideal. You changed the wrong components in search of a solution. Like Sad Bastard 3 says, you have the good fortune to have bought a (very expensive) preamp that has EQ controls, albeit crude. Based on the measurements for your speaker, you could turn down the 10kHz control by 5 dB and the 2.5 dB [sorry: 2.5 kHz] control by 1-3 dB based on listener satisfaction. The controls are too limited for precision, but better than suffering in puristic silence. Or, since you mainly play music through your PC, apply software EQ. This can be a lot more finely tuned to your needs than the controls on your McIntosh. cheers Grant Edited July 10, 2021 by Grant Slack 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripitaka Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 11 minutes ago, Grant Slack said: Hi Richard, your speakers are too bright for you, and , indeed, measurably brighter than ideal. You changed the wrong components in search of a solution. Like Sad Bastard 3 says, you have the good fortune to have bought a (very expensive) preamp that has EQ controls, albeit crude. Based on the measurements for your speaker, you could turn down the 10kHz control by 5 dB and the 2.5 dB control by 1-3 dB based on listener satisfaction. The controls are too limited for precision, but better than suffering in puristic silence. Or, since you mainly play music through your PC, apply software EQ. This can be a lot more finely tuned to your needs than the controls on your McIntosh. cheers Grant 2.5dB above should read 2.5kHz, I imagine? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Slack Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Yes and thank you. I have made an edit to my previous post. Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICUToo Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) Lots of good suggestions above, especially about the front end, but another option is to look at power supply. Power supply to the computer, DAC and pre- are really important to "brightness" in some situations. I would suggest trying power filtering / conditioning / regeneration / new power cables and see if that helps. These should all be borrowed and tried at home. Toric transformers have been amazing in some systems. A simple power filter changed my Devialet 1000 system from good to amazing. All that said, D-series B&Ws have a reputation for brightness- maybe try listening markedly off axis (ie speakers aiming straight down room or, alternatively, heavily toed-in to cross in front of you) All the best regards, Edited July 10, 2021 by ICUToo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) The B&W's are bright but I've heard them running before and they were fine in that setup so they can be made to sound good. What does you room look like? Can you add any sound absorption on the side walls and rear wall? Edited July 10, 2021 by deepthought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) These are super cheap but measurably good way to tame upper frequency reflections - https://www.ebay.com/itm/114880089410 https://www.wovenimage.com/media/productattachment/echopanel_27_soundabsorption.pdf Edited July 10, 2021 by deepthought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetherock Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 On 7/9/2021 at 10:59 AM, Cafad said: I've heard of a few B&W 800 series owners who feel that they are too bright. Are you emotionally invested in them? If not there are a whole lot of speakers out there that are nowhere near as bright as the ones you currently have, I would recommend looking into alternatives. I sold them and got my Dynaudio C1Ps... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Hi OP I’ve got a decent amount of experience with 800’s, particularly D3. Whilst I understand people calling them bright, and thinking that the same at one stage, that’s not what I hear. They are not coloured like some speakers and do have a real presence up top that needs careful matching. Current, not power, is critical in getting the best response from the bass drivers. Nothing wrong with your preamp and would have thought the Michi to be ok, although never heard one personally. As others have said, room acoustics is critical and just as important, speaker position. I find you need to really play with speaker positioning to get the tonality right. Try moving the speakers out into the room and closer together as this will provide some mid bass coupling and increase the midrange warmth. Toe in makes a difference too but nothing like the speaker positioning will. Also, cables do make a difference but not your primary concern at this stage in my view. Maybe if you provided us with you current speaker positioning and room acoustics/layout, we can help provide some more ideas. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronsound Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 On 7/9/2021 at 12:50 AM, RCAJack said: The first thing to consider might be your room. Does it sound echoey if you clap your hands? Are there carpets, curtains, and upholstered furniture or floor tiles, metal and glass? A minimalist design aesthetic with lots of hard surfaces can bring make for a sound that’s bright and fatiguing. Otherwise, obviously... speakers. Agreed! Room treatments!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddyev Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 If youre using Roon and have the skills the convolution filters work minor miracles. In my system - with b&w 805 d3 - the filters have had more impact than a component upgrade . 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POV Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 In my experience B&W 800 series speakers have an artificial boost in treble so this is no doubt contributing but as per above posts you should start with your room. Can you post some photos so we can see? how far away from side walls are the speakers? Do you have any treatments in the room? Have you taken any measurements? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronsound Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 17 minutes ago, POV said: In my experience B&W 800 series speakers have an artificial boost in treble so this is no doubt contributing but as per above posts you should start with your room. Can you post some photos so we can see? how far away from side walls are the speakers? Do you have any treatments in the room? Have you taken any measurements? Moving my speakers and listening couch/chair made the MOST difference to better bass (tighter), mid range vocal transparency and further with room treatments - even just some side panels for better highs etc. Look for a room/speaker placement calculator online to help with setup. my couch is 1/3 from my back wall. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronsound Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) http://noaudiophile.com/speakercalc/ for help with speaker placement and listening position. Edited July 10, 2021 by ronsound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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