Maynard Posted July 4, 2021 Posted July 4, 2021 (edited) Hey…hope your afternoon is a pleasant one. a bit bored this afternoon so I decided to dust off my Dennis Had “triode hot rod” low powered (10 watts or thereabouts), triode (sep?), power amp and connect that to my accuphase e303 integrated amplifier. Using the preamp of the e303 In Separates mode. Really enjoying this combination. Was a bit hesitant as I love this integrated so much and didn’t want to mess with the house sound of this lovely integrated amp. Ok it loses out of a little of the impact that I would get if I was using the power amp section of the e303 but the sound is just lovely and has this spatial airiness to it. The valves I’ve chosen are el34 with a 6sn7 driver. It’s a very different sound, more graceful?? So I looked up about power amps changing the sound signature. It seems there are many people who think power amplifiers sound the same. Well I can obviously hear a sizeable difference, and I was wondering if other people have opinions on this? Edited July 4, 2021 by Maynard Edit text 4
mbz Posted July 4, 2021 Posted July 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Maynard said: Ok it loses out of a little of the impact that I would get if I was using the power amp section of the e303 but the sound is just lovely and has this spatial airiness to it. My modest ventures into the world of valves (Consonance Ref 150, Cyber 800 and aikido pre) has me noting the loss of slam and detail on cymbol smashes etc... Yes the airiness is nice. The valve gear is mostly packed away until I'm a bit older and the hearing goes, the airiness should be magic then...
doogie44 Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 This 'sounding the same' argument about amplifiers energised many technophiles in the 1980s and beyond for years (still does). I say enough. Anyone who can listen and hear will quickly find that amplifiers do sound different. When the dispute changes to valves vs solid state--a most popular argument--then it's on for young and old. May I declare my biases and say that: 1. I prefer valve amplification because to me (as a musician) it usually sounds more like music, and 2. There is one main reason why valve technology persists and flourishes, especially in the worlds of pop and rock and hi-fi: so many people prefer it. 3. The peak experiences of my audiophile life have all been via valve equipment But that's just me. I do love good music reproduction in a balanced (well-married) system, whatever the topology. It's also true that great SS and great valve amps are growing closer and closer in their sound presentation. But I could count on the fingers of one hand the times that a solid-state amp in a system gave me goosebumps while listening. At home it's a daily experience... In your example of using the Dennis Had amp it's a classic situation where one kind of amplification means you usually can't 'have it all' (depending on the system). But it's not a binary argument. Many fine SS amps (eg Pass Labs; Goldmund) and valve amps (eg Audio Research; Line Magnetic) can sound quite similar at times. As you hear better and better examples of both kinds of amp topology in more well thought-out systems it does seem as though you get closer to having it all! Then there's the great-sounding GaNFET Class D amp modules inside the glass bottle of a KT88 tube!! WTF (but I like it). Just my 2c worth. 5
MattyW Posted August 9, 2021 Posted August 9, 2021 Aye, I love tube sound but I also love the detail, speed and impact of solid state. I tend to prefer solid state sounding tube amps, and tubes sounding solid state amps if that makes any sense? My favorite solid state amps that I've tried have been based on the Pass Labs Aleph-M or darTZeel NHB108B circuits. They combine all the attributes I like of both tube and solid state amps. Really they're transparent enough that the source is more critical. I certainly prefer tube sources paired with a passive pre into these amps. Let the source have the biggest impact on overall sound signature. That can be expensive but seems to get me the results I like.
knotscott Posted August 9, 2021 Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) There can be a significant difference in amps. It's harder to hear on lower res systems, or systems that mask subtle difference, but it can be pretty noticeable on some systems. It tends to not be quite as dramatic as a cartridge or speaker change, but they all definitely have their sound. After owning many good solid state power amps (and hearing many others), I finally settled on some nice old Dynaco 70s with the latest VTA upgrades, and haver never looked back. If done right, good tubes can really suck you into the performance with their clarity and depth that goes beyond just tonal balance differences. If you like what you heard from the tube amp, give it a fair shake and try a decent tube preamp.....many feel a tube preamp makes even more difference than the amp. Edited August 9, 2021 by knotscott 1
davewantsmoore Posted August 9, 2021 Posted August 9, 2021 On 04/07/2021 at 4:02 PM, Maynard said: and I was wondering if other people have opinions on this? They will sound the same, when "all else is equal". ... but the amplifier design you have here is quite different to a "typical solid state" amplifier. This will mean the amplifier delivers a different response (than a more typical amp would) into the speaker load..... and so you get a different frequency response (which sounds different). How much different? Depends on the amp design, and speaker design. Typically you get a small lift in frequency response around the bass and around crossover points..... which can easily sound "warm and airy". You can take tubes, or SS, and design amplifiers which sound "the same".... it isn't about the type of device, it's about the type of circuit you build with them ..... and whether that circuit, coupled with your speaker, delivers a flat and low distortion/noise response... or if it delivers "something else". 1
SlawMan Posted August 9, 2021 Posted August 9, 2021 On 04/07/2021 at 4:02 PM, Maynard said: It’s a very different sound, more graceful?? So I looked up about power amps changing the sound signature. It seems there are many people who think power amplifiers sound the same. Well I can obviously hear a sizeable difference, and I was wondering if other people have opinions on this? Amplifiers to a greater or lesser extent mangle the audio signal. Lesser are better designed, greater are poorly designed. If the intent of audio reproduction it to reproduce accurately, nothing in your system should "sound" like anything. But as we all know, components do taint the sound and minimising that to the greatest extent possible, for me anyway, is the ultimate progression in the hobby.
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