Jventer Posted February 7, 2013 Posted February 7, 2013 Has anyone got an opinion or experience with the Short Block USB filter (Empirical Audio) or the Aubisque USB filter?
jof062 Posted February 7, 2013 Posted February 7, 2013 Have used one of these for a while and seemed to work well. Not used now since adding a DI-V3 and PS https://www.olimex.com/Products/Modules/Interface/USB-ISO/ Some good info in Google Mine will be up for sale soon at the right price.
drez Posted February 7, 2013 Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) I am doubtful, USB is already fairly good at filtering out common mode noise and filtering is often a double edged sword ie you remove one form of noise but add another. Nothing I have put between my computer and my transport has ever improved the sound. Edited February 7, 2013 by drez
gavtron Posted February 7, 2013 Posted February 7, 2013 I have heard good things about the short block filter, but it does not work with devices that need USB power from the PC. I have the JKenny usb / spdif mk3 which has a battery pack but still needs the power from the USB port to "handshake" with the computer. I use the adnaco s3 USB card which isolates usb devices from the PC via fiber optics. It makes a bid difference to the sq of my setup compared to on board USB. 1
HumanMedia Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) The concept is good. PCs are a furnace of RFI noise that should be screened from downstream components. I hope the Aubisque USB filter isnt just a ferrite around the USB cable. Not that thats a bad idea, its a good one that anyone can do themselves for a couple of dollars. I just don't like the idea of charging 'audiophile' prices for it. Hopefully its a little more sophisticated than that. I have faith in the Empirical Audio - if your target device doesnt require 5v line. Also consider the iFi products too as they come with good reports and are a little more comprehensive: http://ifi-audio.com/en/iUSB.html And iFi's upcoming Gemini cable with multiple filters: http://www.facebook.com/notes/ifi-audio/ifi-gemini-dual-headed-usb-cable/483148201720927 And just to be clear I have no personal experience with any of these products, but electrical noise on the USB supply line is an obvious weak link that needs consideration. Edited February 8, 2013 by HumanMedia
goldiver Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) I agree with Drez... I've tried a few brands and similar devices (insulated leads etc) and they only ever detracted from sound quality. I look at some of these advertised 'music servers' with large price-tags and numerous noise filters, wondering how many people are being sucked in... ....A good power cord for the PC source is normally the best idea, I've found. Edited February 8, 2013 by goldiver
HumanMedia Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 Keep the findings coming. Especially if something made a positive or negative difference (no difference not so much). The negatives are just as fascinating as the positives and don't surprise me. Adding things to the USB chain runs the danger of adding impedance changes to what should be a clean 90ohm connection. Also in the case of powered devices (iFi) that power transformer may provide ultra clean 5v, but what sort of rfi does it dump back out into the mains to affect other equipment?
Jventer Posted February 8, 2013 Author Posted February 8, 2013 The reason why I asked was because: I read about Adnaco products relating to jplay (e.g. gavtron) I was referred to read about the Aubisque filter Steve from Empirical recommended the USB block even with an expensive USB cable. These things are fascinating and with my limited knowledge and understanding regarding the technical aspects I like the discussions.
empirical Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 The reason why I asked was because:I read about Adnaco products relating to jplay (e.g. gavtron) I was referred to read about the Aubisque filter Steve from Empirical recommended the USB block even with an expensive USB cable. These things are fascinating and with my limited knowledge and understanding regarding the technical aspects I like the discussions. It is possible to add a connector for external cable power for a small additonal charge. When you do this, you must make sure to sequence the power correctly: USB external powr first, then USB interface. there is a lot of feedback on SB on Audiocircle.com Steve N.
wis97non Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) I am doubtful, USB is already fairly good at filtering out common mode noise and filtering is often a double edged sword ie you remove one form of noise but add another. Nothing I have put between my computer and my transport has ever improved the sound. Its a data line filter, not really a power line filter. I will shortly report back when I have done my demo. Edited March 12, 2013 by wis97non
acg Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 JV, I have the Shortblock here. It is new and part of a plethora of changes that I have made to my system in the last couple of days so I cannot yet tell you the specific difference that it made to SQ. The Shortblock, expensive USB cable, Offramp and dedicated audio pc have all happened in the last two days so all I can tell you is that everything sounds a LOT better than before. I will be going through the process of evaluating each of these items individually once they are all run-in and can let you know then if you would like. Anthony 1
Jventer Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 Anthony Very exciting. My goal when I started my upgrade journey two years ago was to just play music in digital format (and to sell everything else I had). As most SNA members know plans quickly go astray and I bought lots of other stuff while learning about computers and realising how little I knew and how much it is developing.Eventually I wish to end up with an "audio" silent PC or mac mini in my system with the necessary tweaks and accessories to get the quality comparable to my CD rig or better. At the moment I need to get my laptop working as best as possible. It is an i5 so fast enough. I upgraded the ram to 8gig, this week it is the installation of the audiophilleo, after that it will be things like usb cable, external power supply for Audiophilleo and a ssd. I like reading about what you are doing so please keep us up to date.
acg Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Hi JV. I just posted some interesting USB cable shootout results on my original thread. Basically I am in love with the Revelation Audio Labs Cryo Somethingorother. It smashed its opponents and is a really nice match for the Offramp and the Ribbonteks. Based on my limited experience in this field I reckon that the RAL cable is the jizz and would really take some beating. Tomorrow, time permitting, I will have a play with the Shortblock and its effects and let you know. Anthony 1
wis97non Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 For USB, I much rather get a competent inexpensive cable with correct impedance (the MOST important property) and then treat the power and the data lines. This seems like a more systematic approach.
acg Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 Okley dokely JV. I have just finished some listening with and without the Shortblock in my system used in conjunction with the Offramp5. I certainly makes a difference. As you would expect from a good product I could hear no general difference in tone BUT I could hear more of each note and the entire presentation was cleaner and clearer from the lowest to the highest notes. The noise floor is significantly retracted resulting in more realism across the entire range of sounds. Small things such as the decay of strings seem better represented which, for me, adds to the listening experience. Does the Shortblock add a night and day, grab you by your nether regions, kind of change in sound quality? No. But I really do appreciate the little white box when it is not there. Plus is makes for a less fatiguing listen. The Shortblock, for me, is two hundred clams well spent. Anthony
drez Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Okley dokely JV. I have just finished some listening with and without the Shortblock in my system used in conjunction with the Offramp5. I certainly makes a difference. As you would expect from a good product I could hear no general difference in tone BUT I could hear more of each note and the entire presentation was cleaner and clearer from the lowest to the highest notes. The noise floor is significantly retracted resulting in more realism across the entire range of sounds. Small things such as the decay of strings seem better represented which, for me, adds to the listening experience. Does the Shortblock add a night and day, grab you by your nether regions, kind of change in sound quality? No. But I really do appreciate the little white box when it is not there. Plus is makes for a less fatiguing listen. The Shortblock, for me, is two hundred clams well spent. Anthony Damn now I think I need one... Any kind of return/trial period possible?
acg Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Damn now I think I need one... Any kind of return/trial period possible? Yep. As far as I know everything from EA has the trial period regardless of where you are in the world. I don't think you will want to return it though. Anthony
jkeny Posted July 26, 2013 Posted July 26, 2013 I have heard good things about the short block filter, but it does not work with devices that need USB power from the PC. I have the JKenny usb / spdif mk3 which has a battery pack but still needs the power from the USB port to "handshake" with the computer. I use the adnaco s3 USB card which isolates usb devices from the PC via fiber optics. It makes a bid difference to the sq of my setup compared to on board USB. That isn't correct - none of my devices require power from USB to handshake. have you tried the short block with JKSPDIF MK3?
gavtron Posted July 26, 2013 Posted July 26, 2013 That isn't correct - none of my devices require power from USB to handshake. have you tried the short block with JKSPDIF MK3? Hi John, Apologies for the incorrect info - I could have sworn I tested your converter with a power isolating usb cable and it didn't work. No, I never tested the shortblock with the mk3. Does it improve the sound much? I had mixed results when I used the SB a few weeks back, depending on the devices I plugged it into. Mostly it had a positive effect however. Cheers, gav.
Tobes Posted July 28, 2013 Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) I've come from heavily analog based system and only recently started playing around with computer streamed audio. Never liked CD much. I have a Grace M903 DAC which has multiple connection methods including asynchronous USB (version licensed from Wavelength Audio's Gordan Rankin). My thought was that with an AC powered asynchronous DAC like the Grace, the connected PC/USB cable wouldn't have much influence (I wish!). FWIW, the 'PC' I'm using at the moment is a recycled Lenovo netbook which uses a pretty slow single core Atom processor. Music is streamed from a single disc NAS. What I found was that everything seemed to make a difference in this setup: the lan connection (wireless sounds better than ethernet), netbook power (battery better than AC plugpack), USB cables and even whether or not I kept the Android Foobar control app on my phone connected to the Netbook(!). Very frustrating! Anyhow, since I'd proven to my satisfaction that USB cables influenced the sound in my setup, I thought I'd try a little isolation via the iFi USB power device and Gemini cable. I've got to say I'm very impressed with its positive improvements. I used to find it very difficult to sit through a long session of digital based music. While I first noted improvements in soundstage size and image specifity/detail, the biggest gain is something far more significant. Music gains a dimensionality, nuance and harmonic rightness - maybe related to low level detail - that makes listening hugely more engaging. I wouldn't want to be without the iFi power/Gemini and highly recommend them. I also noted that differences between wireless/ethernet, battery/AC etc while still worthwhile were diminished with the iFi pairing in circuit. Got a lot more experimenting to do - today I masked off the power pins in the USB connector from the Netbook to the iFi and got another improvement. I'm looking at replacing my little netbook with something having more grunt - currently tossing up between a Windows laptop, Windows based C.A.P.S type PC or a Mac mini. Any recommendations? Edited July 28, 2013 by Tobes
Jventer Posted July 28, 2013 Author Posted July 28, 2013 Anyhow, since I'd proven to my satisfaction that USB cables influenced the sound in my setup, I thought I'd try a little isolation via the iFi USB power device and Gemini cable. I've got to say I'm very impressed with its positive improvements. Thanks for posting. I was wondering if anyone was using the iFi and Gemini. Please see Acg's thread about how much does a pc influence a dac. I prefer a mac mini with Audirvana - mainly because I got it cheap, it is fairly easy to use and the fact that there are many apple devices in my home.
qwerter Posted July 28, 2013 Posted July 28, 2013 I was wondering if anyone was using the iFi and Gemini. Would like to hear opinions on the above mentioned too.
gavtron Posted July 28, 2013 Posted July 28, 2013 Hi Tobes, If you decide to use the Mac - maybe try Steve Nugent's recommended setup. If you prefer PC, look into building a caps style server, I think the Zuma would be my pick, but instead of using the SOTM USB card they recommend, try the PPAStudio USB card + a linear PSU to power it. As JVenter mentioned, have a look at acg's thread, as he has written about a lot of experiences with different combo's of PC hardware + software. I have a custom built PC based music server and the SQ is far better than my stock standard laptop running the same software. It is also possible to use Windows 2012 server + audio optimisation script to squeeze even more out of the setup, if it's only going to be used for music playback. Cheers, gav. 1
Tobes Posted July 29, 2013 Posted July 29, 2013 Would like to hear opinions on the above mentioned too. If you're asking about how the Gemini compares to other usb cables, I can't offer a lot of comparison. Prior to the gemini I was using the Furutech Formula 2. The Furutech is a fairly inexpensive cable - as far as audiophile cables go anyway - and the gemini was several times the cost. I'd found the furutech to be a useful improvement over the generic cables I'd experimented with. Nonetheless the gemini was obviously the more transparent and informative cable - the Furutech sounded a bit 'fat', lacking in definition and somewhat bland by comparison. BTW this was both cables being fed by the output of the iFi usb power device. No doubt some people will roll their eyes at usb cable comparisons - I would have been in the same boat prior to doing some listening. It does seem that every effort in separating the data and power and reducing noise on both is worthwhile. As to why usb is so sensitive, I don't know. I doubt it has anything to do with the digital threshold voltages (ie noise influencing voltages for 1's and 0's). More likely noise spectra riding on the digital signal somehow leaking into the analog circuit. However Grace say "the m903 now uses a completely galvanically isolated, asynchronous data transfer high speed USB interface". So what's going on? Hi Tobes, If you decide to use the Mac - maybe try Steve Nugent's recommended setup. If you prefer PC, look into building a caps style server, I think the Zuma would be my pick, but instead of using the SOTM USB card they recommend, try the PPAStudio USB card + a linear PSU to power it. As JVenter mentioned, have a look at acg's thread, as he has written about a lot of experiences with different combo's of PC hardware + software. I have a custom built PC based music server and the SQ is far better than my stock standard laptop running the same software. It is also possible to use Windows 2012 server + audio optimisation script to squeeze even more out of the setup, if it's only going to be used for music playback. Cheers, gav. Thanks gav. Still tossing up between Mac and PC options. I'm more familiar with the latter and it does offer more options. On the other hand Mac has very good rep for audio, has neat packaging and its easier to add a linear supply down the track. But....for $100 less than the price of an i7 based Mac mini I could buy this: http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/np350v5c-s07au-samsung-np350v5c-s07au-3630qm-750gb-7670m-p-64304.html?sort=2a Same cpu/ram, but more flexible and useful - keyboard/screen/battery option etc. I'm tempted.
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