Supratek Owners & Discussion Thread

[balk2117]

 
Don't do it. They look nice enough on the outside. The inside will just be a profound disappointment. 

The response from Mick is honest and transparent without even needing to expose the internals. A wonderful sounding preamp that deserves the highest praise. But that's just my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[loki65]

59 minutes ago, balk2117 said:

 A wonderful sounding preamp that deserves the highest praise. But that's just my opinion.

 

 

My opinion too. Mick builds bloody good pre's.  

 

Despite what the Supratek bashers say, well worth the money.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Micoz]

Love the sound of my Cortese. I would only change it for a Supratek upgrade. 

 

Yes I have looked underneath and am not worried.  The sound comes first!

 

Cheers

Mike

[bzr]

8 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

Don't do it. They look nice enough on the outside. The inside will just be a profound disappointment. 

yes, but so do you

 

[firefly0071]

17 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

Don't do it. They look nice enough on the outside. The inside will just be a profound disappointment. 

 

The exterior looks nice with the wood panels. But looks "odd " to the common metal rectangular boxes.

 

 

I got mine for a good price and as with second hand equipment, is great value for  dollars (less than 1.5k).

 

I find the sound quality great!

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

2 minutes ago, firefly0071 said:

 

The exterior looks nice with the wood panels. But looks "odd " to the common metal rectangular boxes.

 

I agree. The exterior fit and finish is of a high standard. The preference for styling is a personal one and one that I don't argue one way of the other. I do find the (empty) chrome or gold plated domes a little odd though. I am very much a 'form follows function' kind of guy. 

 

2 minutes ago, firefly0071 said:

 

 

I got mine for a good price and as with second hand equipment, is great value for  dollars (less than 1.5k).

 

I find the sound quality great!

 

I don't argue about sound quality, one way or the other. It is the (internal) construction quality that requires a great deal more effort. Again: Earle Weston manages to construct point to point wiring in his devices and the internal construction is second to none. 

[Chazz]

I have a 300B DHT Dual Cabernet which Mick built for me.  It's on his blog  http://supratekaudio.blogspot.com.au/2016/12/300b-dual-cabernet.html

 

I chose the 300B because of all the 'magic' that people have mentioned about this tube, and certainly it does have this magic.  One thing though about the 300B DHT is that it is microphonic.  When the music is playing you don't notice it is but it is definitely something you notice when the music is not on.  If I have to buy again I'd be happy to by another Supratek but perhaps this new circuit that Mick has developed which apparently addresses the microphonics without losing the magic.

[georgehifi]

4 minutes ago, Chazz said:

When the music is playing you don't notice it is but it is definitely something you notice when the music is not on.

So if you turn the volume up to normal very gently tap the tube with your finger nail with no music playing, can you hear it through the speaker/s?

If so, the tube has gone microphonic, and needs to be changed, as it will be just as microphonic with air borne bass vibration when music is playing.

 

Cheers George  

[Bronal]

1 hour ago, georgehifi said:

So if you turn the volume up to normal very gently tap the tube with your finger nail with no music playing, can you hear it through the speaker/s?

If so, the tube has gone microphonic, and needs to be changed, as it will be just as microphonic with air borne bass vibration when music is playing.

 

Cheers George  

Some valves are inherently microphonic and the 300B is one of them.  Remember that they weren't designed for high-gain preamp use - many were designed for radios!

[georgehifi]

44 minutes ago, bronal said:

Some valves are inherently microphonic and the 300B is one of them.

If this is the case, they should be in another room well away from the speakers, or used with headphones only.

 

Cheers George

Edited October 29, 2017 by georgehifi

[Gryffles]

2 hours ago, Chazz said:

I have a 300B DHT Dual Cabernet which Mick built for me.  It's on his blog  http://supratekaudio.blogspot.com.au/2016/12/300b-dual-cabernet.html

 

I chose the 300B because of all the 'magic' that people have mentioned about this tube, and certainly it does have this magic.  One thing though about the 300B DHT is that it is microphonic.  When the music is playing you don't notice it is but it is definitely something you notice when the music is not on.  If I have to buy again I'd be happy to by another Supratek but perhaps this new circuit that Mick has developed which apparently addresses the microphonics without losing the magic.

Could you explain how you notice it? What does it do to tell you it's microphonic?

[Bronal]

You tap the cabinet (with no music on)  and you hear a dull ringing noise it's microphonics.  Usually encountered with 45s, 2A3s and 300Bs. Also 274Bs I am told. I've even had it with Sylvania VT231s. Very hard to get rid of.  Some people try dampers but they have never worked for me.

 

Or get someone else to do it for you and listen at your speakers.

Edited October 29, 2017 by bronal

[THOMO]

12 hours ago, bronal said:

You tap the cabinet (with no music on)  and you hear a dull ringing noise it's microphonics.  Usually encountered with 45s, 2A3s and 300Bs. Also 274Bs I am told. I've even had it with Sylvania VT231s. Very hard to get rid of.  Some people try dampers but they have never worked for me.

 

Or get someone else to do it for you and listen at your speakers.

Much like most turntables really.

Try tapping on a tonearm and you will get a much louder microphonic sound.

 

[Addicted to music]

19 minutes ago, THOMO said:

Much like most turntables really.

Try tapping on a tonearm and you will get a much louder microphonic sound.

 

You'd be surprised on TT like the Sota Saphire.   I was on my way to buy one,  but retailers here wasnt game enough to sell them at the time.  Auditioned one at Tivoli HiFi 30yrs ago when I was 20 something and tried to get one.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

11 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

You'd be surprised on TT like the Sota Saphire.   I was on my way to buy one,  but retailers here wasnt game enough to sell them at the time.  Auditioned one at Tivoli HiFi 30yrs ago when I was 20 something and tried to get one.

To be fair, THOMO did say "Try tapping on a TONEARM..." 

 

Completely and utterly unrealistic, of course. No sane person would do such a thing.

 

I agree with your assessment of the SOTA, BTW. Extremely resistant to microphonics. You can whack a hammer on the SOTA chassis and there is no audible issue. Quality valve preamps are also designed to be resistant to microphonics as well. They do so, by using valves that are inherently low microphony devices and various damping schemes, such as compliant PCB mounting systems. 

[THOMO]

The whole need for reducing microphonics debate has already been done to death around turntables with all sorts of isolation techniques and engineering and yet there would appear to be very little evidence that it brings any sonic improvements unless you place these components in silly places like right next to the speakers.

Rega has built a hugely successful business selling turntables and tonearms that pay little attention to this issue for example.

[Wimbo]

12 minutes ago, THOMO said:

Rega has built a hugely successful business selling turntables and tonearms that pay little attention to this issue for example.

Doesnt mean its right.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

18 minutes ago, THOMO said:

The whole need for reducing microphonics debate has already been done to death around turntables with all sorts of isolation techniques and engineering and yet there would appear to be very little evidence that it brings any sonic improvements unless you place these components in silly places like right next to the speakers.

Quite possibly, the silliest thing I've read about turntables. Ever. Turntables MUST be well isolated from external influences. When this is done, sound quality takes on a new dimension. 

 

18 minutes ago, THOMO said:

Rega has built a hugely successful business selling turntables and tonearms that pay little attention to this issue for example.

Your point being? McDonalds have built a successful business making hamburgers that do not resemble food too. 

 

In fairness, Rega build spectacularly good tone arms and decent turntables, PROVIDED the owner takes due care to ensure the turntable is isolated. Dollar for Dollar, they respresent fine value for money, IMO. SOTA built far superior turntables, but at far, far higher cost. Unfortunately, good isolation costs money. 

[georgehifi]

24 minutes ago, THOMO said:

isolation techniques and engineering and yet there would appear to be very little evidence that it brings any sonic improvements

Really, then why did Linn go to the trouble of tuning their adjustable Sondek chassis suspension to 11hz or something, which Merv of Riverina HIFI, (Linn setup expert) was taught how to do it by Ivor Tiefenbrun at the Riverina workshop, and I watched when he was taught.

 

Cheers George 

Edited October 29, 2017 by georgehifi

[THOMO]

4 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

Really, then why did Linn go to the trouble of tuning their adjustable Sondek chassis suspension to 11hz or something, which Merv of Riverina HIFI, (Linn setup expert) was taught how to do it by Ivor Tiefenbrun at the Riverina workshop, and I watched when he was taught.

 

Cheers George 

Its called marketing.Linn also made turntables [the Axis] with none of that.

I have owned plenty of turntables that attempted to deal with these issues but sounded pretty terrible.Horrible suspended chasis things they were.My Logic DM101 amongst them which I converted to having no suspension and which then sounded much better.A Denon tonearm that had a split toneram with a rubber suspension/isolation ring in the middle which  also sounded terrible.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

14 minutes ago, THOMO said:

Its called marketing.Linn also made turntables [the Axis] with none of that.

I have owned plenty of turntables that attempted to deal with these issues but sounded pretty terrible.Horrible suspended chasis things they were.My Logic DM101 amongst them which I converted to having no suspension and which then sounded much better.A Denon tonearm that had a split toneram with a rubber suspension/isolation ring in the middle which  also sounded terrible.

The Axis had/has fairly effective isolation. It was designed to be reasonably effective out of the box and over its life, where the Sondek requires periodic attention to stay at its best. No springs but some pliant materials in a clever design. Some very expensive turntables are essentially decendents of the Axis.

As far as Regas go, note that the company also sells a wall shelf for best support for its turntables (my limited experience is that the cheaper Regas work much better when sat on a wall shelf firmly fixed to a solid wall). Here:

https://www.aussiehifi.com.au/products/rega-turntable-wall-bracket?variant=45080385287

$300 for a frame shelf. Don't tell me Rega don't care about isolation...

 

 

 

 

[Wimbo]

54 minutes ago, THOMO said:

Its called marketing.

Of course. Every different design technique has marketing in it.

Back in the 80's I had a Ariston RD40. The skeletal design. (Marketing). Tried an old LP12 from the 70's which was well set up with an LVX. Sold the RD40. Dynamically, the LP12 blew it away. Lower noise floor.

[Addicted to music]

2 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

I agree with your assessment of the SOTA, BTW. Extremely resistant to microphonics. You can whack a hammer on the SOTA chassis and there is no audible issue. Quality valve preamps are also designed to be resistant to microphonics as well. They do so, by using valves that are inherently low microphony devices and various damping schemes, such as compliant PCB mounting systems. 

Yep,  what a great selling demo, I was sold instantly....

 

not that hat I would do that if I owned one but this guy gave it such a wack that I though he was gonna damage TT,  annnnd the music just continued as if nothing had happen!

[THOMO]

1 hour ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

The Axis had/has fairly effective isolation. It was designed to be reasonably effective out of the box and over its life, where the Sondek requires periodic attention to stay at its best. No springs but some pliant materials in a clever design. Some very expensive turntables are essentially decendents of the Axis.

As far as Regas go, note that the company also sells a wall shelf for best support for its turntables (my limited experience is that the cheaper Regas work much better when sat on a wall shelf firmly fixed to a solid wall). Here:

https://www.aussiehifi.com.au/products/rega-turntable-wall-bracket?variant=45080385287

$300 for a frame shelf. Don't tell me Rega don't care about isolation...

 

 

 

 

Yes if you have a suspended timber floor some isolation is probably good hence the wall shelf.Still not going to stop airborne sound from directly impacting on the tonearm and cartridge though.Fortunately most of us have concrete floors so such things become far less important.

 

Anyway back on topic.

I have owned and used a few directly heated triode preamps and yes they were all a bit microphonic.The Ming Da MC2A3 more so than the Suprateks but that still sounded very good.A friend now owns that and his system sounds excellent.My Supratek 300B is only mildly microphonic anyway.You have to tap pretty hard on the chasis to hear anything and even then it is only a very slight ringing sound.A lot of valve power amps will do that too.

So either that fact that they are a bit like that makes no difference or it may even add something that makes them sound that extra bit special .If the latter is the case then it would also be fair to conjecture that it could also be why vinyl replay can also sound that extra bit special-cartridges are after all a type of microphone.I suspect however that they sound really good  simply because the DHT [especially the meshplates] are just nice sounding things.

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by THOMO

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Here are some articles that reference this, allegedly, non-existent problem:

 

https://dalmura.com.au/static/Microphonics in valves.pdf

http://www.pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/01_Audio_Notes/Measuring_Microphony.pdf

http://web.itu.edu.tr/sanliturk/Publications/ICSV10_2003.pdf

 

That said, I have long suggested that part of the attraction of SOME valve preamps, is due to their tendency towards microphony. This characteristic seems to add an artificial sense of width and depth to a musical performance and may be preferred when playing poorly engineered recordings. Those of us who prefer low distortion systems will likely look elsewhere. Companies like Conrad Johnson and others will probably continue to develop their products using microphonic reduction techniques.