kopidilo Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 Switched to Dirac Live room EQ now for my HT. Super lost... :-[ Super steep learning curve! :'( it's so different from audyssey! And it didnt help that the manuals are not very detailed :'( Need desparate help on the following: 1) During "Volume calibration" stage, what should be the ideal target to achieve for mic input gain alone before measuring the individual speakers volume? The manual doesn't define clearly. Currently I'm using middle of the bar for the mic gain as the target. 2) for the speaker target curves to load for the speakers, what are some well known target curves to use?
econav Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 your mic that come with the set should hv it files for the calibrated gain and seeting once you started Dirac live. 1)You can imcrease the vol level till your spk clipping point and reduce it by 6-10 db and then start the calibration process. 2) this are manufacturer's spec for key in to the Dirac for ref point of calibration by spec,if you don't hv the data should omit this input.
desray Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 Switched to Dirac Live room EQ now for my HT. Super lost... :-[ Super steep learning curve! :'( it's so different from audyssey! And it didnt help that the manuals are not very detailed :'( Need desparate help on the following: 1) During "Volume calibration" stage, what should be the ideal target to achieve for mic input gain alone before measuring the individual speakers volume? The manual doesn't define clearly. Currently I'm using middle of the bar for the mic gain as the target. 2) for the speaker target curves to load for the speakers, what are some well known target curves to use? Not sure how to help you since I haven't dive into the Dirac Live calibration. But did you read up the basic setup guide here: https://live.dirac.com/content/uploads/2019/05/dirac-live-quick-start-print-version.pdf Legacy setup guide can be found in this pdf: https://dirac-site.squarespace.com/s/dirac-live-room-correction-suite-user-manual-v11.pdf which may come in handy. I know the GUI changed quite a fair bit.
rayleh Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 [embed=640,480] [/embed] Did some research as I was into Dirac Live so I hope the above link helps.
desray Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 Did some research as I was into Dirac Live so I hope the above link helps. Thanks rayleh for sharing :) Anyway I've checked with Sevenz...he's using NAD T777 and the Dirac version (not sure full suite or lite version though) has its own unique NAD interface which may differ quite a bit from the Dirac Live s/w downloaded form the Dirac website...but I believe the pre-set up to get everything in order should be pretty similar.
rayleh Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 I should have guessed that he finally gotten a NAD T777 as he has mentioned to me before . Above links are Dirac Live set up for NAD, I am sure they are helpful.
kopidilo Posted December 31, 2019 Author Posted December 31, 2019 Yea t777. Dirac live full version Thank u for the links!
desray Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 Yea t777. Dirac live full version Thank u for the links! Congrats on your new toy :)
rayleh Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 Hope the Youtube videos will help bro Sevenz.
ronildoq Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 Couldn’t help bro Sevenz much as I’m not familiar with the NAD controls. They are quite different from the minidsp Dirac and the controls are rather limited Apparently can’t change distance or delay post eq Can’t set volume or levels post eq for individual channels A lot of things have to be done pre-eq. One of it is the gain optimisation process, I believe he is struggling to find the point of unity gain in the NAD, the mic levels + amplifier choice all contribute to this.The reason for setting this correctly is to Ensure when Dirac calibration takes place, the mic picks up data accurately with reasonably good signal to noise ratio. I would try this if I was into NAD. First I’ll use the umik -1 mic instead. Definitely much better quality than the stock. Use the 90 degree calibration file that comes with it. Ideally, the input mic gain levels pre calibration should be centred at 0. Next adjust the master volume (left beside input gain) to a point where all speakers / most speakers return a value of -12db. For the subwoofers I normally have it slightly louder at -10db. Once u have determined the master volume, u then adjust individual speaker levels on the sliders to match it to -12 That’s a good starting point. It’s the same process with the stock microphone. All the best in your calibration journey and congrats on your new toy for 2020! Ps: unity gain is achieved when the mic levels + amplifier levels + speaker output returns a value of 105db or 75db with -30dbfs pink noise playing and mic at MLP. U can easily establish this with umik mic in rew using the signal generator
desray Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 Couldn’t help bro Sevenz much as I’m not familiar with the NAD controls. They are quite different from the minidsp Dirac and the controls are rather limited Apparently can’t change distance or delay post eq Can’t set volume or levels post eq for individual channels A lot of things have to be done pre-eq. One of it is the gain optimisation process, I believe he is struggling to find the point of unity gain in the NAD, the mic levels + amplifier choice all contribute to this.The reason for setting this correctly is to Ensure when Dirac calibration takes place, the mic picks up data accurately with reasonably good signal to noise ratio. I would try this if I was into NAD. First I’ll use the umik -1 mic instead. Definitely much better quality than the stock. Use the 90 degree calibration file that comes with it. Ideally, the input mic gain levels pre calibration should be centred at 0. Next adjust the master volume (left beside input gain) to a point where all speakers / most speakers return a value of -12db. For the subwoofers I normally have it slightly louder at -10db. Once u have determined the master volume, u then adjust individual speaker levels on the sliders to match it to -12 That’s a good starting point. It’s the same process with the stock microphone. All the best in your calibration journey and congrats on your new toy for 2020! Ps: unity gain is achieved when the mic levels + amplifier levels + speaker output returns a value of 105db or 75db with -30dbfs pink noise playing and mic at MLP. U can easily establish this with umik mic in rew using the signal generator This is the part that I don't get it...why Dirac Live module implemented by AV manufacturers can differ from the Dirac's own s/w in terms of features? Is this even still considered a full-fledged suite or lite version? Are we getting money's worth? I have been rather hesitant to get my hands on a Dirac based AVR due to the reasons cited. Anyone with experience or perhaps the underlying reasons for this deviation? Pls do share...
ronildoq Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 Not sure how other bros are using their NAD I believe if one prefers one stop solution, hit calibrate button and go and settle, then this NAD avr works If one prefers a bit more manual control, then this NAD avr is not for u. Better to just set it to 80hz xo and go, otherwise if u found out there is a big cancellation at the crossover region, will be very hard to accept. Setting the unity gain for mic levels is just a small issue, the main crux of the issue is how to integrate mains+subs when the features are not there. I believe one would need an outboard eq with flexible controls to achieve this. So Not really sure how they integrate mains+subs post eq on the NAD. The software on the avr doesn’t cater for mains+subs integration but more to individual channels calibration. Hopefully with the new bass management module this issue will be resolved
desray Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 Not sure how other bros are using their NAD I believe if one prefers one stop solution, hit calibrate button and go and settle, then this NAD avr works If one prefers a bit more manual control, then this NAD avr is not for u. Better to just set it to 80hz xo and go, otherwise if u found out there is a big cancellation at the crossover region, will be very hard to accept. Setting the unity gain for mic levels is just a small issue, the main crux of the issue is how to integrate mains+subs when the features are not there. I believe one would need an outboard eq with flexible controls to achieve this. So Not really sure how they integrate mains+subs post eq on the NAD. The software on the avr doesn’t cater for mains+subs integration but more to individual channels calibration. Hopefully with the new bass management module this issue will be resolved Exactly...it simply raised more questions than answers from the way I see it.
whitesox Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 Switched to Dirac Live room EQ now for my HT. Super lost... :-[ Super steep learning curve! :'( it's so different from audyssey! And it didnt help that the manuals are not very detailed :'( Need desparate help on the following: 1) During "Volume calibration" stage, what should be the ideal target to achieve for mic input gain alone before measuring the individual speakers volume? The manual doesn't define clearly. Currently I'm using middle of the bar for the mic gain as the target. 2) for the speaker target curves to load for the speakers, what are some well known target curves to use? Bro, We went to Lenbrook for demo of M17. A friendly promoter (Pinoy guy) also showed us how to use Dirac Live. He knows well. In fact, he also calibrated his showroom too so why not you can approach him ;D
rayleh Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 2) for the speaker target curves to load for the speakers, what are some well known target curves to use? You can download house curve from NAD website.
kopidilo Posted January 1, 2020 Author Posted January 1, 2020 This is the VOLUME CALIBRATION stage where instructions are not clear. Input gain vs master output. 1) For the mic gain - Most manuals advise to adjust the mic input gain lever (in BLACK), until the ambience spl reads -24db or best -36db. Some advise to adjust it to middle of bar to be balanced. Currently i am using -36db now.... Need help: So what is the ideal mic input gain to set? ??? My thinking is as long as it is above my noise floor which is 43db, it will work? lolol so confusing. 2) for the individual speaker levels, after mic input gain and master volume is set, the steps is to play test tone to make sure all are in the GREEN zone. But the problem is the SPL for each channel is different even though all are in GREEN zone. And there is individual speaker gain (in BLACK) that the controls allow user adjust Need help: Do I need to adjust the individual speaker gain on this screen such that all of the eventual SPL of each speaker is roughly the same before I proceed to the next step (measurements)? or just leave the individual speaker gain as default 0 as long as it is in the GREEN zone?
rayleh Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 With the microphone positioned at the listening focal point or 'sweet spot' of the room, limit as much noise in the room as possible. Start with Mic Gain set to “100%.” The Mic Gain and Master Output volume can also be seen as a signal to noise ratio setting (Output Volume is Signal, and Background Noise is noise.) Select the Test Button (Play) for the first speaker channel (left speaker) to play a test tone from that speaker Gradually adjust the Output Volume until the indicator bar is green. You will see a range of green bars while the test tone is playing, try to adjust the level as high as possible without it turning red red. Click the Test Button again to stop the test tone once completed. Repeat this process with each of the remaining speaker channels in the system using only the slider below each speaker to adjust that speaker so it is also green as close to red as possible without turning red. If your subwoofer has its own level control, use that to set the volume of the test tone for the sub instead of using the Subwoofer Volume Slider in the DIRAC program Choose your seating arrangement. Chair and Sofa are available by default. A DIRAC Pro license will open more options; From NAD website. Start with Mic Gain at 100% https://support.nadelectronics.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011867634-Dirac-Setup
kopidilo Posted January 1, 2020 Author Posted January 1, 2020 Thanks bro. Bro yuraias sent me this link, quite detailed. https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live-mic-levels/ Looks like have to adjust individual speaker gain too even though all may be in green zone.
desray Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 Thanks bro. Bro yuraias sent me this link, quite detailed. https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live-mic-levels/ Looks like have to adjust individual speaker gain too even though all may be in green zone. Wow...that link to showcase the steps and how to interpret those graphs are invaluable! Now I have a better knowledge on how Dirac Live works. Thanks for the link. Now it makes perfect sense. BTW...you've mentioned that yours is a full suite as in measuring from 20Hz - 20KHz...you need to confirm that it is not restricted to just 500Hz (that is not a full sweep). The reason I'm saying this is because the stock Dirac Live Suite maybe LE version and it seems like one need to pay US$99 to get the full range measurement. Though the previous owner claim he have gotten the full suite, it is prudent to check what the measurement Fq Range looks like.
kopidilo Posted January 1, 2020 Author Posted January 1, 2020 https://westcoastavgallery.ca/how-to-setup-dirac-calibration-for-nad/ One more link that might be useful. So for these are the few that is more "dummies guide" in nature.
rayleh Posted January 1, 2020 Posted January 1, 2020 Can you review the T777 once the dust has settled down?
kopidilo Posted January 1, 2020 Author Posted January 1, 2020 sure. I think it will take a few months given CNY coming and the limited HT time i have with a kid at home now... And longer time taken to learn and trial and error... lol. Hope to get on top of it soon
ronildoq Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 Bro Sevenz, By the end of your NAD journey, u will realise one thing: It’s not how good the avr is, or Dirac live is vs your previous avr with audyssey. It’s how well you calibrate the system to bring out the best in what works in that room with the rest of the gears. The crux of it lies in the calibration skills and the necessary functions that allow it. The benefits of having proper calibration far outweighs the benefits of moving on to Dirac from audyssey. Having a good calibration will provide far greater benefits than an equipment having a higher specs like good DAC, Good parts etc Personally I think it’s of paramount importance that understanding of the equipment and their usability is far more critical than price and specifications. Just look at emotiva RMC-1, then u will understand better
desray Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 Can you review the T777 once the dust has settled down? Take your time. No rush. Look forward to your review. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
kopidilo Posted January 4, 2020 Author Posted January 4, 2020 Thanks for all the help in one way or another everyone! :) Got the input gain challenge sorted out Liao. And finally conquered the DL software! Not that difficult after all. Just need to overcome the initial confusing part on the volume calibration of the mic and speakers output test tones. And also the stupid network connection problems between the avr, laptop and network modem.
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