Hifiplus Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Any (DIY) coaxial fans out there? KEF, Tannoy etc - am particularly interested in the new KEF Blades, drivers look like they have overcome most coaxial limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krispy Audio Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Coaxial rule. Love them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.d Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I'm going to try buy a replacement pair of drivers for my Kef LS50s by telling Kef my jealous wife took a knife to them (so dont anyone else use that one), I want to see if I can improve on the cabinet with something bigger, sealed and much more elaborately shaped (keeping the front baffle probably and having side mounted opposing drivers like the Blade), and I want to try them in OB running >200hz. (I've only ever had Hawthorns Sterling Silver Iris coaxials before.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 You can get KEF coaxials. I think my friend tried a Blade clone. I use Thiels which use coincident phase and time coherent coaxial drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Coaxial = good KEF = not sensitive enough The Q900 for $225 USD ea seems like a lot of engineering for the money though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifiplus Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 thanks, how can I get a set of KEFs? I'm going to try buy a replacement pair of drivers for my Kef LS50s by telling Kef my jealous wife took a knife to them (so dont anyone else use that one), I want to see if I can improve on the cabinet with something bigger, sealed and much more elaborately shaped (keeping the front baffle probably and having side mounted opposing drivers like the Blade), and I want to try them in OB running >200hz. (I've only ever had Hawthorns Sterling Silver Iris coaxials before.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicester Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 would you classify the Divas as Coaxial or stick to the description as "dual concentric drivers"?... they're nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub Sonic Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I wonder what VAF's spare part price is for the i90/i91 coaxial/concentric driver? Might be another option, they certainly sound good. SS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Spencer Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I wonder what VAF's spare part price is for the i90/i91 coaxial/concentric driver? Might be another option, they certainly sound good.SS Seas used to make a coax with a dome tweeter in the middle, there were a few versions, one of them cost around $150. It's probably still around. would you classify the Divas as Coaxial or stick to the description as "dual concentric drivers"?... they're nice... Dual concentric is a fancier sounding term for the same thing. Coaxial means multiple drivers share the same axis. When 3 drivers are used, some make the mistake of calling it triaxial, but that means something entirely different - 3 different axes. The photos of the Diva show a compression driver tweeter, so it is a coaxial. I like the point source aspect of a coaxial driver, but they do certainly have their problems. Any time you put a compression driver or tweeter in the middle, the cone becomes a waveguide. The response is typically messy and ragged. A lot of pro coaxes are stupidly expensive, and yet the response of the compression drivers is vastly inferior to the same driver on a decent waveguide or horn. There is a price paid to get a point source sometimes. There is one coax I have in the back of my mind for a project. It's a 12", reasonably priced and looks unusually well behaved. Could make a nice Tannoyish project. I hope to find a good excuse at some point to do it! My feeling is that there is potential in coaxial drivers that has not yet been realised by the vast majority of them. Cabasse deserve a mention here - I think they make some of the best. But they are pricey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub Sonic Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Paul, Have you ever had the chance to measure the VAF i90's? They sound pretty darn good to me but there's no frequency response chart on their website. BTW, I think the Seas website does still have concentric drivers. SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Spencer Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 No, I haven't measured them. There are a lot of things that you just can't pick just by listening to music. There are many ways it can go wrong when a manufacturer shows measurements and there are some that I've seen that explain why many don't want to show it! (In case anyone asks, nope, not telling!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub Sonic Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) OK, thanks. A bit more on topic, I love the imaging of concentric drivers, if well designed, it is so precise :-) SS Edited January 17, 2013 by Sub Sonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Dunno where he got the Q100 coax from http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=122325.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr-wyas Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 A company called Equator Audio have a budget active studio monitor, the D5 - http://www.equatoraudio.com/D5_Studio_Monitors_with_DSP_300_Pair_p/d5.htm - featuring "an expensive coaxially designed transducer with a 5.25" woofer and a 1" silk tweeter". All for a measly US$299 (~AUD$430 landed), with DSP thrown in. Reviews suggest they rival monitors up to the $1k range. Am tempted to give them a go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.d Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 thanks, how can I get a set of KEFs? I've heard they are hard if not impossible to come by, the Blade/LS50 ones at least. DoggieHowser seems like me might know something though. Anyone heard the P-Audio BM8CXA that GR Research use in their OB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifiplus Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 Lusting after KEFs now, look a lot more advanced than SEAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Spencer Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Without thinking too much about it, one would think that the best imaging comes from a fullrange driver. It avoids a lot of problems and it's the simplest way to get a point source speaker. I spent some time recently with a Mark Audio fullrange speaker, just one little driver in a back loaded horn. I was quite impressed with it, obviously there are limitations but it's a well-rounded speaker that makes a good attempt at trying to "do it all." One of the things I listened for was the imaging. I have to say it didn't stand out above anything else in my room. I've been able to get just about anything to image, with open baffles performing the worst in that regard. A point source is the ideal, but you can break the rule to a certain extent before you start to notice a sonic penalty. As a rule, I try to keep driver centres within one wavelength at the crossover point. It's not too difficult to achieve, except where you start using super tweeters or running large multi way horns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifiplus Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 Curious, which MarkAudio driver was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Spencer Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 It was a grey alpair, the cone itself is about 4" but I think they class it as a 5". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifiplus Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Thanks Paul, Im using DIY 3 way 4 driver system at the moment. Just looking for something simpler for the next project. The KEF is appealing due to the simple crossover requirements, for fullrange drivers Im always tempted but have never been comfortable with their tonality, which for me is highest priority. Now if I can just find a driver which combines, reasonable (90db) sensitivity, smooth frequency response (on and off axis), doesnt require complex xover, images well (system dependent of course), clean waterfall plot & doesnt cost the earth, I'll be very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Spencer Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The question of simplicity is not always the simplest question in audio! I can't see how the Kef driver is helping you achieve simplicity. A quick glance at some review measurements showed a few issues that might make the crossover more complex in reality. The driver is certainly interesting. A quick glance suggests it has a strangly shaped dust cap. On closer inspection, it looks like the dust cap has been replaced with a small waveguide and a phase plug. The tweeter may in fact be a compression driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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