holliswhy Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Time has passed since "Made in China" means consumerism - products which are made with plastic and poor quality, a throw-away toy, or a cheap sounding PC speaker. Good quality stuff are coming out from China regularly. e.g. iPhones, Quad speaker/ amp, NAD gear... etc etc. But are we (Australians/ Hi Fi hobbiests) still resistant to "Made in China"? If so, when will "Made in China" become a word for quality, not quantity? I would argue that this has happened to Japan (think Luxman and Leban), but when will it happen to China? What do companies like Jungson (etc) need to do to have a "Quality" reputation? 1
firefly0071 Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 My only problem with Chinese imports is that when they are imported without going going through a distributor and without getting a CE tick that it is safe to use in Australia. This applies to all imports. However, there are lots of Chiniese hifi equipment on Ebay with no official warranty and of various quality and not offically available in Oz,.
Guest Muon Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 I don't care where a product is made, if it ticks all the correct boxes, all good
richard260 Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 China can make crap or good stuff. I think the same, Theres good and bad but they are making lot good stuff lately.
eman Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Are we still resistant to "Made in China"? I am. 1
Sir Triode Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 They are still not there yet IMO - still some years to go but they are getting there. The problem is not that they lack technical know how or the ability to make great products - the problem lies with the culture.i.e. money above all else. So they are willing to sacrifice quality to save a buck. You won't know where they have shaved on quality to save on cost and more profit for themselves. The sample shown to the customer may not be the same as the products being shipped out after the contract is struck in the case of a sub-contract situation. 4
soundfan Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 I'm not. I have heard some excellent chinese products, that easily compete with overpriced hi fi from elsewhere. And they have already arrived.
metal beat Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) Performance, reliability, resale value, longevity of the brand, after sale service, pride of ownership are some of the reasons why I do not buy Chinese made hi end HiFi. You will not see any Chinese with a lot of disposable income buying Chinese HiFi. The lap up the big euro and US HiFi brands. You do not see any Chinese brands advertising and making their HiFi brands available for reviews etc. The Japanese did that very well in the 70's. It would seem that in Australia and elsewhere in the world, it is left to distributors to make the hard sell - without any brand awareness from the parent companies. Companies that outsource their manufacturing like NAD are IMO more in the consumer HiFi market, not the hi end HiFi market. I have tried a few Chinese amps and pre amps. The Consonance cyber 800 mono block tubes are very good. The Consonance pre amp I tried was the biggest pos I had ever listened to. I will never ever buy Classe or B&W for example as B&W moved production to China without lowering the prices accordingly. Companies that do that are just screwing with their customers. Did Pacific Dunlop reduce the prices on all the Bonds underwear when they closed down the Aussie factories and moved production to China? Edited January 7, 2013 by turntable 3
RockandorRoll Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 I deal a lot with Made In China for work. The quality IS there, you just have to monitor it. Companies who outsource to China and then forget about it will always run into trouble. I'm guessing this is what NAD did based on the past few items i have bought from them If you move manufacturing to China and monitor the hell out of it the problems arent there ime. China have great manufacturing processes, but its up the company to monitor tooling, QA etc. I believe this is the difference between 'outsourcing' and 'moving manufacturing'. Soon as we get a complaint on a product where i work, our engineers are on a plane asking wtf - companies need to follow this. China has basically closed its doors to outsources so we wont see a lot more coming out of there. Taiwan and India are the next up and comers if manufacturing costs (labour) are anything to go by. I have nothing against buying from China or making things in China - in a few years it will be a sign of quality. However i must admit, if a manufacturer has 2 pieces of identical equipment and one was made in China and one in England, i would pay a little more for England - stupidity? 1
holliswhy Posted January 7, 2013 Author Posted January 7, 2013 I agree with most of the posts here. It seems like promoting and marketing of quality will be important to us in Australia. Apple products are probably great examples of that.... On a global scale... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
ehtcom Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) I'm not. I have heard some excellent chinese products, that easily compete with overpriced hi fi from elsewhere.And they have already arrived. My amps would be heaps cheaper if I only had to pay AU 35 cents an hour for labour. No sick leave, holiday pay, super, workcare and OH&S to worry about. Cheers, Earle. Edited January 7, 2013 by ehtcom 5
Phantom Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 My amps would be heaps cheaper if I only had to pay AU 35 cents an hour for labour. No sick leave, holiday pay, super, workcare and OH&S to worry about. Cheers, Earle. Despite which, your amplifiers are still very competitively priced against much of the Chinese crap and the sound quality of your product is so much better it's almost surreal :) 2
Guest Muon Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) Deleted Off topic Edited January 7, 2013 by datafone
emesbee Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 As long as there is good quality control in the factory, there is no reason why products manufactured in China shouldn't be as good as those manufactured elsewhere. Some companies have done this, but far too many don't. What I do object to is formerly well regarded companies who lower the quality of their products by sticking their name on a cheap Chinese made substitute, but who try to trade on their brand name by keeping their prices high. Its nothing but a blatant rip-off. 1
emesbee Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 I'm not resistent to the 'made in China' label, but I am wary of it. Sometimes you see brand name products which are practically identical to some no-name Chinese brand. They are obviously using the same components, but if the no-name product is half the price of the better known brand, why not give it a try? As an example, I recently bought a Chinese brand wireless modem/router for $39, after having a bad run with another brand which cost me around $120. The $39 modem/router is working flawlessly. It it dies after 6 months, so what? I'll just buy another one.
gainphile Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 I'm very much impressed at what the Chinese can deliver, even ignoring the prices. Example: MiniDSP, Class D amps, etc. Just awesome!
soundfan Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 My amps would be heaps cheaper if I only had to pay AU 35 cents an hour for labour. No sick leave, holiday pay, super, workcare and OH&S to worry about. Cheers, Earle. I hear you Earle, and certainly understand your position. Just posting my experiences with chinese gear.
Briz Vegas Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 I'm not resistent to the 'made in China' label, but I am wary of it. Sometimes you see brand name products which are practically identical to some no-name Chinese brand. They are obviously using the same components, but if the no-name product is half the price of the better known brand, why not give it a try? As an example, I recently bought a Chinese brand wireless modem/router for $39, after having a bad run with another brand which cost me around $120. The $39 modem/router is working flawlessly. It it dies after 6 months, so what? I'll just buy another one. That sort of works at a personal level (after a fashion) but is a complete disaster for society when you multiply your experience by 7 billion. How many tonnes of e-waste is that. It's the market failing to adequately value our limited resources. It's why we need better regulation. Not picking on anyone here, it's a systemic problem that we are all very familiar with. Every once in a while I will buy a cheapy and learn the lesson once again. Most times it's better to go without, which is where you end up two weeks later anyway.........and yes, sometimes against the odds the 3 dollar clock works flawlessly for years. 2
Davros59 Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 very interesting topic. I for one am old enough to remember when buying Japanese goods was viewed in exactly the same way, with caution. It's cyclic, that's for sure. Just look at the car market. In the 1960's you wouldn't be caught dead driving an inferior Japanese car, in the 1980's the same was true for Korean vehicles. Now it's the turn of the Chinese. High demand for cheap products brings with it an inevitable evolution in quality manufacturing techniques. So buy up big and buy up quickly and in 10 years time we'll all be having the same conversation about the quality of products being made in the next third world country to realise their low wages make for a great opportunity. my question is when is it Australia's turn? 3
Willco Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 I'm not resistent to the 'made in China' label, but I am wary of it. Sometimes you see brand name products which are practically identical to some no-name Chinese brand. They are obviously using the same components, but if the no-name product is half the price of the better known brand, why not give it a try? As an example, I recently bought a Chinese brand wireless modem/router for $39, after having a bad run with another brand which cost me around $120. The $39 modem/router is working flawlessly. It it dies after 6 months, so what? I'll just buy another one. This is rumoured to be a direct copy of the Linn Klimax DS($25K) Interesting at $4K W http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/201212/LUMIN-20/0.htm
Willco Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 my question is when is it Australia's turn? Hmmm What happened to the Melody Aust/CHN co operative--are they still around? Willco
Willco Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 My only problem with Chinese imports is that when they are imported without going going through a distributor and without getting a CE tick that it is safe to use in Australia. Doesn't The CE stand for "Chinese Equivalent" Sorry! W
emesbee Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 That sort of works at a personal level (after a fashion) but is a complete disaster for society when you multiply your experience by 7 billion. How many tonnes of e-waste is that. It's the market failing to adequately value our limited resources. It's why we need better regulation.Not picking on anyone here, it's a systemic problem that we are all very familiar with. Every once in a while I will buy a cheapy and learn the lesson once again. Most times it's better to go without, which is where you end up two weeks later anyway.........and yes, sometimes against the odds the 3 dollar clock works flawlessly for years. I guess my point here is that the more expensive modem/router failed completely very early in its life, so has effectively and prematurely become e-waste. So far, the cheaper product has been working flawlessly for the last few months since I bought it. Sure, its a gamble, but based on this experience I have no confidence that the more expensive product was built any better than the cheaper one.
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