Wanted MC Cartridge that is around 0.2mV

[rocky500]

Not sure anyone does it this way, but I have a Phono stage that is suited to MC cartridges around the 0.2mV.

I have been using MM cartridges on a Clearaudio Concept turntable and would like to try a MC cartridge with this phono stage.

I have a Denon DL301-II that its output voltage is 0.4mV and it distorts when the music hits the high notes. I'm pretty sure it is overloading the phono stage.

So anyone recommend a MC cartridge to try that is around the 0.2mV?

I am using a Clearaudio Maestro MM at the moment.

I also have a Grado MM but can not use it as my arm adjustment does not alow me to push it back enough to align it.

Edited December 25, 2012 by rocky500

[Hergest]

Not sure anyone does it this way, but I have a Phono stage that is suited to MC cartridges around the 0.2mV.

I have been using MM cartridges on a Clearaudio Concept turntable and would like to try a MC cartridge with this phono stage.

I have a Denon DL301-II that its output voltage is 0.4mV and it distorts when the music hits the high notes. I'm pretty sure it is overloading the phono stage.

So anyone recommend a MC cartridge to try that is around the 0.2mV?

I am using a Clearaudio Maestro MM at the moment.

I also have a Grado MM but can not use it as my arm adjustment does not alow me to push it back enough to align it.

If you like the DL301 then you will love the DL-304. Just under .2mv and is a ripper of a cartridge.

[Jake]

I have a Denon DL301-II that its output voltage is 0.4mV and it distorts when the music hits the high notes. I'm pretty sure it is overloading the phono stage.

I can't help but think that the fault probably lies with the setup rather than "overloading". But I am no expert!

[rocky500]

The Denon works fine with other phono stages. The phono I want to try out is a Tom Evans micro plus that has been setup for 0.2mV. So the sticker on the bottom says.

I did email Tom about switch settings and he said it was setup for low output MC's.

Unless the phono stage is at fault?

It distorts a little when singers hit their higher notes with the Denon. It is the only MC cart I have here to try.

Edited December 25, 2012 by rocky500

[Tax]

Sent you a pm about the Fidelity Research FR1mk3F. It has an output of 0.14mV.

[Young Skywalker]

Not sure anyone does it this way, but I have a Phono stage that is suited to MC cartridges around the 0.2mV.

I have been using MM cartridges on a Clearaudio Concept turntable and would like to try a MC cartridge with this phono stage.

I have a Denon DL301-II that its output voltage is 0.4mV and it distorts when the music hits the high notes. I'm pretty sure it is overloading the phono stage.

So anyone recommend a MC cartridge to try that is around the 0.2mV?

I am using a Clearaudio Maestro MM at the moment.

I also have a Grado MM but can not use it as my arm adjustment does not alow me to push it back enough to align it.

Which phono preamp are you currently using? Your proposed experiment sounds a little bit like putting the chicken before the egg.

[Telecine]

The Denon works fine with other phono stages. The phono I want to try out is a Tom Evans micro plus that has been setup for 0.2mV. So the sticker on the bottom says.

I did email Tom about switch settings and he said it was setup for low output MC's.

Unless the phono stage is at fault?

It distorts a little when singers hit their higher notes with the Denon. It is the only MC cart I have here to try.

You can send it back to the factory or a dealer to have it set to suit your cart.

[rocky500]

Your proposed experiment sounds a little bit like putting the chicken before the egg.

Yes you are correct. I actually have 2 phono stages here already and this one came up at a very good price. I thought while I had the other 2 this would be a good chance to do a comparison of what a Tom Evans was like compared to what I had already.

It has dip switches on it , so I thought it would be adjustable for different cartridges. It looks like it is set for the mV but with different loadings.

There is no mention on the net when I did a quick search on what cartridges are suited to these phono stages.

I also enquired and got an email back from Tom himself which has me really interested in giving this a good go with a suitable cartridge.

His quote "It should outperform your 'other ' phono amps by a fair margin."

No I don't think I will mention the others I have.

I have not been uterly impressed with my turntable setup, so would like to give this a real go. So I have the phono stage now, so would like to get a good cartridge to see how it performs.

Sending it back to have it modified sounds expensive, which I think might be better spent on a cartridge itself to suit.

When I brought the phono, I did not know it would not even work with MM cartridges. I thought the dip switches would alow for this.

I also did own a Denon DL304 when I had a rega setup but sold that one when I sold the Rega. Would have been a good match.

Edited December 25, 2012 by rocky500

[shogun2]

I have an absolutely brand spanking new Audio Technica AT50ANV if you are interested.

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/cartridges/55c732e450a18cb1/index.html

My setup cannot do it justice, so I would be happy to move it on to someone who can.

[Owen Y]

Rocky,

If you haven't sorted things already... try setting resistive loading downward - to a even as low as say ~150 ohms for the Denon.

Sometimes HF peaking/resonance manifests itself like distortion at h level peaks, esp in the upper mids region.

[metal beat]

Assuming phono stage is now working fine. Denon DL-S1 is a fine choice at a good price.

Cheers

[pulinap]

Assuming phono stage is now working fine. Denon DL-S1 is a fine choice at a good price.

Cheers

Yes, but hard to tame given the low output with relatively high impedance......

[metal beat]

Yes, but hard to tame given the low output with relatively high impedance......

Perhaps if you are using a SUT or have insufficient gain. Rocky wants to use it with Tom Evans mg - active gain set up for 0.2mv. With these specs it should be an excellent fit.

The DL-S1 is a gentlemen with no need for taming if fed the right food. I own one, if anything when being amplified correctly it is rather laid back in delivery.

Cheers

Edited December 30, 2012 by turntable

[pulinap]

Perhaps if you are using a SUT or have insufficient gain. Rocky wants to use it with Tom Evans mg - active gain set up for 0.2mv. With these specs it should be an excellent fit.

The DL-S1 is a gentlemen with no need for taming if fed the right food. I own one, if anything when being amplified correctly it is rather laid back in delivery.

Cheers

I am yet to find a SUT that has enough gain for a MM stage....as there aren't many around (in fact none) that can deliver at least 30db considering the 33 ohms impedance with 0.14mv output.

If you have a head amp/active gain then there is no problem.

Edited December 30, 2012 by pulinap

[valvelover]

I can't help but think that the fault probably lies with the setup rather than "overloading". But I am no expert!

I'm tending to agree here. Perhaps the phono stage in question has some internal damage too?

Dave

[rocky500]

I would not have thought it is faulty but it is possible.

I brought it from a Dealer who included a 3 month warranty. So might be good to try another cartridge before that time expires.

I did set the phono dip switches to 112 Ohms, which is its lowest setting when trying with the Denon 301-II.

It could be what Owen mentioned

"Sometimes HF peaking/resonance manifests itself like distortion at h level peaks, esp in the upper mids region."

I noticed it in the vocals and when they hit the higher notes.

I am now also finding, I am limited to what cartridge I can use. I was offered some on SNA but each one looked like it will not setup in my Clearaudio tonearm.

The distance between to bolt holes and the stylus tip looks like it has to be under 10mm or I do not have enough adjustment to alow the stylus tip to follow the arc in setup.

I have a Grado here where I can not adjust it back enough in the arm to follow the protractor arc.

Edited December 30, 2012 by rocky500

[Owen Y]

I am yet to find a SUT that has enough gain for a MM stage....as there aren't many around (in fact none) that can deliver at least 30db considering the 33 ohms impedance with 0.14mv output.

If you have a head amp/active gain then there is no problem.

There is of course Denon's AU-S1 SUT, which has only 1:13 Gain.

This would get line level up to somewhat less than CD level, but could work if the amp-spkr combo was powerful/sensitive.

(Sorry rocky, digressing....)

Edited December 31, 2012 by Owen Y

[Owen Y]

I did set the phono dip switches to 112 Ohms, which is its lowest setting when trying with the Denon 301-II.

Around 250~400 ohms should be the right ballpark for the 301-II.

Which Clearaudio tonearm & TT?

[rocky500]

It is clearaudio concept which has the verify tonearm.

I did not have a guage for setting up cartridges, so I printed one with "Arc template generator 1.15"

It has a Clearaudio Maestro cartridge in the pic and it is close to right back in the arm to have the stylus follow the arc.

Unless my Arc template is wrong it seems a little odd with where Clearaudio have the adjustment for moving the cartridge forward and back. It limits the brand of cartridges. Was thinking of filing off the little tabs/pins each side of the allen key bolt. This would also allow me move it back more and to straighten the cartridge if needed.

Specs of the arm

Overhang:

17.31 mm

Overall length:

302 mm

Effective length:

9 inches (exact 239.31 mm)

Distance from pivot:

222 mm

Offset angle:

23.00°

Zero points:

Inner: 66,00 mm

Outer: 120.9 mm

Edited December 31, 2012 by rocky500

[Owen Y]

It looks a nice tonearm...

(I know your cart was working OK with other phonostages previously but....)

It seems odd that the Verify has difficulty accommodating various cartridges...check a few things...

- That 222mm distance above should be Arm Pivot-to-Records Spindle - check it.

- Check the accuracy of your printed alignment protractor - the 66mm & 120.9 distances, for example.

- For good measure, check the tonearm pivot to stylus tip distance - this should be 239.3mm.

PS. I'm hoping that your current cartr has rectang sides, unlike the curved one pictured above, which looks tricky to align

[rocky500]

PS. I'm hoping that your current cartr has rectang sides, unlike the curved one pictured above, which looks tricky to align

It doesn't matter at the moment as you can not adjust this. There is 2 pins that stick up either side of the Alen Key bolt in the top middle. This stops any movement of the cartridge(like straightening it). The alen key bolt lets me move the cartridge forward and back only.

I noticed in some pics online the Clearaudio MC cartridge sits in the middle. So that would be best and also best for having the cartridge square I would of thought.

Filing off the lugs would enable me to straighten if needed but it would only be one bolt holding the cartridge to the tonearm.

Also double checked the tonearm distance to make sure it is 222mm.

Pic of the 2 lugs that are there.

Edited December 31, 2012 by rocky500

[Owen Y]

OK, CA have set the Offset Angle (23deg) based on the 222mm pivot distance & a 239.3mm Effective Length... check also the latter (as best as you can, tricky I know).

(The other way to confirm this latter, is the Overhang... which should be 17.3mm.)

And, your protractor.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Owen Y

[rocky500]

Anyone local want to try out a Tom Evams MicroGrove Plus X phono stage?

You will need a cartridge that has a very low output of around 0.2mV.

You will be doing me a favour, by trying out and seeing if the phono is ok.

In the mean time I will keep looking for a cartridge for myself.

[davm]

Not sure what your price range is, but I can recommend a ZYX R100-02 cartridge. It has an output of 0.24mV so right on the money there.

I have one and find it excellent...great soundstage and doesn't suffer from being over bright which I think many MC can tend to.

Not sure about local retail in WA, but available online from Pure Music Group:

http://puremusicgroup.com/cart/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=61

Regards, David.

[rocky500]

Thanks David, the ZYX cartridges look interesting.

The ZYX RS-30-02 looks to be more in my budget. It is still 0.24mV. Any good?

2 others I am looking at is the Denon DL103 and the Audio Technica AT-33PTG/II. Both are 0.3mV.

Not sure how good a match any of them will be with my tonearm.

I also think setting my Antiskating is a bit limited and a cartridge with a VTA around 2g is easier to setup.

Edited January 1, 2013 by rocky500