JeffK Posted December 23, 2012 Posted December 23, 2012 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-24/nra-issues-point-blank-no-on-gun-control/4442190
hybridfiat Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) As a long standing shooter and former Lic gunsmith I have to say I cannot for the life of me understand how any group of civilians can; with a straight face; justify owning assault weapons. I call them weapons as opposed to guns because guns can mean sporting, hunting or historical/art artifacts; but these are offensive weapons designed to be used in combat against other human beings to wound and kill as efficiently and effectively as possible. So they have NO PLACE in civvie life. Never mind the prevelance or all pervading presence of firearms in America, that is indeed another problem, the fact remains that it takes a certain kind of mentality to want to collect and propagate the ownership of such weapons, Im glad it hasnt found a foothold in Australia. Now to the controversial; in a society that promotes the idea of a weapon in the household for the defence of a citizens country or sport,, where the owner or holder of said weapon is a member of the armed forces; it can and does work. Sweden and Switzerland are 2 examples of where it does work. However the mindset of the people of these 2 countries is very different from the mindset of Americans and to some extent Australians. To suggest to a Swede that a Reservist's gun would be good a way to settle an argument will be met with derision or stunned disbelief. Thats not what they are for. Simple! Hollywood and the popular American media (Bones, Hawaii 5 O, Supernatural, etc etc etc) however strongly promote the firearm; particularly the handgun; as the answer to almost any problem, even ghosts! The 'anti-gun' lobby here does no-one any favours either by; constantly reinforcing Hollywoods perverted message that guns are for settling disputes and for killing people. Say it often enough an the weak minded will believe that that is what they are for and act on it. I notice that the Beretta 92 has fallen out of favour and been replaced by the Glock 17 or another of the Glock family, I guess they didnt need to spend as much on product placement once they had the US govt contract. Sig still have product placement rights in NCIS I see. Edited December 24, 2012 by hybridfiat 4
Decky Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 Did you really expect any changer in NRA policies?
JeffK Posted December 24, 2012 Author Posted December 24, 2012 Did you really expect any changer in NRA policies? No what I think is that the Yanks have made their bed, and now they lie in it. They can only expect more of the same. Jeff
JeffK Posted December 24, 2012 Author Posted December 24, 2012 As a contrast look at the atrocity in India, and the reaction there. They, if what we see reported is true, are not sitting back but are out in the streets demanding changes to the law and to the culture which seeds the issue. The NRA have 4 million members - where are the other 296M?
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 http://www.abc.net.a...control/4442190 Yep. Collective delusion can be a powerful thing. Still, I have a hope that enough people can make a difference this time. The NRA is flexing it's muscles and there is a real possibility that people will see through the rhetoric and reject their lies.
hybridfiat Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 They have a lot of politicians in their pockets
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 As a contrast look at the atrocity in India, and the reaction there. They, if what we see reported is true, are not sitting back but are out in the streets demanding changes to the law and to the culture which seeds the issue. The NRA have 4 million members - where are the other 296M? They're afraid. Most importantly, the politicians are afraid of the NRA. The NRA targets all politicians who seek gun control and ensure that their members (and many non-members) know it. They use the standard tactics used by political agitators for many years.
Cafad Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 Just one more reason (and a big one at that!) to be happy that you don't live in America.
Phantom Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 it seems to me that between the NRA , the loony fundamentalists and the Tea Party that the $296million are being ruled by the 4million. The saddest aspect of the recent school shootings was where the members and leaders of the Westborough Baptist Church actually wanted to picket the funerals of the little kids who had been shot saying something along the lines of they deserved to die because they and their families were godless and had no faith. When I read this I almost exploded in rage and sadness. The ultimate irony in this classic tragedy is that it took the local chapter of the Hell's Angels bike club to warn the religious psycho freaks that they would be following their every move on the day of the funerals so that they couldn't impinge on the grief of the victims' families and disrupt the funeral. There was a huge contingent of hell's angles around on those days and the funerals proceeded in peace. If this wasn't so utterly tragic and sad,you could almost chuckle with fundamentalists being taught morals and ethics by a bikie club. 3
JeffK Posted December 24, 2012 Author Posted December 24, 2012 They're afraid. Most importantly, the politicians are afraid of the NRA. The NRA targets all politicians who seek gun control and ensure that their members (and many non-members) know it. They use the standard tactics used by political agitators for many years. Yes that's why I think they will continue to suffer. What are the statistics I heard reported this morning. Gun related crime about the same as a selection of "high income" countries. Gun related deaths 6 to 7 times higher. Mass shootings 100 times higher.
valvelover Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 Yes they do. Just like the RIAA & MPAA do. As I've said elsewhere, one must really question these politicians and they must be kicked out of office. Politicians should serve no one but the people - not business or lobby groups like the NRA. Period. Guns will never be banned in the US, not as long as the current political system is in place. Dave They have a lot of politicians in their pockets
hybridfiat Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 They will never be banned full stop. The best we/they can hope for is a compromise where assault weapons are banned and strict registration is enforced nationaly; I dont hold much hope for that either. Many Americans firmly believe that their govt already has too much say in their lives even if they are not gun owners. This gives the NRA and like organisations oxygen. one can only hope the NRA say or do something so callous they are publicly shamed and lose their shine.
firefly0071 Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 At least in Australia, both sides of politics believe in access to guns etc should be heavily restricted. I visited the USA about 8 years ago and I was allowed, without a license, to use a semi-automatic-machine gun (a Uzi I believe) at a firing range without any form of identification etc.
valvelover Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 Scary! Dave At least in Australia, both sides of politics believe in access to guns etc should be heavily restricted. I visited the USA about 8 years ago and I was allowed, without a license, to use a semi-automatic-machine gun (a Uzi I believe) at a firing range without any form of identification etc.
Nada Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 it seems to me that between the NRA , the loony fundamentalists and the Tea Party that the $296million are being ruled by the 4million. The saddest aspect of the recent school shootings was where the members and leaders of the Westborough Baptist Church actually wanted to picket the funerals of the little kids who had been shot saying something along the lines of they deserved to die because they and their families were godless and had no faith. When I read this I almost exploded in rage and sadness. The ultimate irony in this classic tragedy is that it took the local chapter of the Hell's Angels bike club to warn the religious psycho freaks that they would be following their every move on the day of the funerals so that they couldn't impinge on the grief of the victims' families and disrupt the funeral. There was a huge contingent of hell's angles around on those days and the funerals proceeded in peace. If this wasn't so utterly tragic and sad,you could almost chuckle with fundamentalists being taught morals and ethics by a bikie club. The Westboro Baptist Church.... is widely described as a hate group[4] ......consists primarily of members of his large family;[5] in 2011, the church stated that it had about 40 members I think some groups aren't worth feeding with attention.
DRC Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 The Second Amendment right of the people to keep and bear arms seems heavily entrentched in the USA at a State and Federal level. This law goes back to the 18th century and I cannot see any harm in a household owning a blackpowder ball musket in the spirit of the original intent. Civilian ownership of an AR-15 or semi automatic pistol is another thing. I do not envision the Founding Fathers had intended the civilian population to have access to the kind of military grade hardware so easily found today whilst shopping for a new toaster. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sig-Sauer-M400-with-Prismatic-Scope/21677320
hybridfiat Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 The Westboro Baptist Church.... is widely described as a hate group[4] ......consists primarily of members of his large family;[5] in 2011, the church stated that it had about 40 members I think some groups aren't worth feeding with attention. I agree. If you gather a big enough group of people together there are bound to be a limited number of deluded individuals led by nutters. Take Prof Richard Parncutt as an example :nana
valvelover Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 Agreed. Dave The Second Amendment right of the people to keep and bear arms seems heavily entrentched in the USA at a State and Federal level. This law goes back to the 18th century and I cannot see any harm in a household owning a blackpowder ball musket in the spirit of the original intent. Civilian ownership of an AR-15 or semi automatic pistol is another thing. I do not envision the Founding Fathers had intended the civilian population to have access to the kind of military grade hardware so easily found today whilst shopping for a new toaster. http://www.walmart.c...-Scope/21677320
valvelover Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 I find it amusing that the US of A has such idiots as Westboro Baptist Church and the KKK. I'm all for freedom of speech, but these guys take it too far. I mean, the communist party is illegal in Australia (and the US I might add - so much for freedom of speech!!!). In Germany the Nazi party is illegal - no ifs, buts or maybes. Public display of the Swastiska is forbidden. Personally though, I'm happy to let America sink and fall apart. The world would be better without it. Dave The Westboro Baptist Church.... is widely described as a hate group[4] ......consists primarily of members of his large family;[5] in 2011, the church stated that it had about 40 members I think some groups aren't worth feeding with attention.
hybridfiat Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) Personally though, I'm happy to let America sink and fall apart. The world would be better without it. Dave Ah not really Dave; like em or not America extends a positive influence in terms of freedom of speech and democracy over the whole world. Without them I have no doubt another world power with far fewer scruples would arise to fill the void. A prime example of the devil you know is the Assad regime. Few like or support it but when the dust settles the belligerent 'Brotherhood' (Islamic driven rebels) are going to prove more oppressive and intolerant. The few 'christians' left in Syria are already being killed and things will only get worse. Edited December 24, 2012 by hybridfiat
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted December 24, 2012 Posted December 24, 2012 I find it amusing that the US of A has such idiots as Westboro Baptist Church and the KKK. I'm all for freedom of speech, but these guys take it too far. I mean, the communist party is illegal in Australia (and the US I might add - so much for freedom of speech!!!). Actually, the Communist Party of Australia is not illegal. It has certainly been under undue scrutiny over much of it's time though. In Germany the Nazi party is illegal - no ifs, buts or maybes. Public display of the Swastiska is forbidden. I am torn by this. The Nazis were utterly evil. IMO, the best way to deal with such things is to reveal the history and beliefs of such people at every opportunity. The revulsion by the average person will cause the issue to disappear. Personally though, I'm happy to let America sink and fall apart. The world would be better without it. Dave I'm not. Like it or not, we are all intertwined in this planetary economic system. If the US sinks and falls apart (which appears unlikely in the short term), then the Chinese economy will be hit VERY hard (China is US's biggest creditor). If China is hit hard, then Australia will also suffer. And so on.
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