Aussie HiFi Show 2013 - "Back to Melbourne"

[Luc]

Yeah I'd rather not say which store it is as naming it serves no purpose really except to start arguments up. Salesmen come&go and the stores remain behind and I'm always careful about burning bridges

[Guest guru]

We did both shows in Melbourne and Sydney and will be back in Melbourne again in October. We consider the shows as a not for initial profit experience because punters are there for a gander and nothing else. The vast majority race between rooms and make judgements between friends about sounds emanating from unrealistic situations and illogical expectations. The only meaningful contact you have is generally with strangers about non audio equipment related topics, ie. music and food.

You need to build a reliable presence over a period of time in order to approach a sense of trust and given the cost of the products we sell, trust is a very important common ground.

The reluctance of the show organisers to engage with web forums is merely a reflection of forums to have a tendency to eat their own and with the constant negative attitude towards traditional models of retail, it's a hard sell to turn to exhibitors and say we are going to use sna as a format for promotion and then be handed a plate of bile dredged from these pages over issues of price rip offs, offensive service or lack of, promotions of group buys from overseas suppliers, how much cheaper, faster, better everything is than the services provided by those same exhibitors you are hoping to be attracted by attaching sna as a media co contributor.

It's all well and fine to say we have this many visitors and we are important but one ill informed comment or spiteful post will stay longer in the memory bank of any potential customer much longer than any positive appraisal. I will never want to see a sanitised only positive spin version of sna but with this forum as it is at the moment, it would be difficult to engage a conservative English company in sharing a media platform with a forum that so openly through its members, calls into question of rorting and corrupt behaviour the very companies it seeks to have as paying exhibitors.

Regards,g.

[Guest]

Some valid points raised there guru. I could expand on some points and offer response, however the topic and can of worms it opens is probably best not posted to a public forum.

[Phantom]

So. Let me see if I have this straight.

It great to receive publicity from a forum where opinions are expressed, but it's not OK if some of the posts are not to the liking of certain companies who may have been outed due to questionable business practices.

 

There are "plates of bile"  [which is hyperbole] about "offensive service" and "rorting" as well as "corrupt behaviour", but apparently you would never wish to " see a sanitised only, positive spin" on the forum. So which is it?

 

You appear to advocate publicity of a kind that meets pre approval from vested interests and free speech is fine, except when it's honest comment that is not approved by some marketing departments. So long as comments made are not libellous or materially incorrect, or deliberately intended to demean or degrade a reputation, they should never be censored by commercial interests.

 

We already have sufficient restraints on freedom of speech by corporations with a pre disposition towards being litigious and having lawyers on permanent retainer and now we see that an enthusiast forum, which they prefer not to interact with, due to a lack of confidence that their ethics and product standards will not elicit some negative comment.

 

Or was there something I missed?

[Guest guru]

whether you like it or not, my comments were relevant only to the reluctance of one particular company who is conservative and successful in what they do and the possible reasons why they choose not to engage sna in actively promoting these events. having been on the end of criticism after both times of exhibiting at these shows publicly on sna and still being an active member, i think shows you that i don't advocate only good pre approved publicity.i am all for the individuals right to type what ever they want as long as the forums guidelines are respected and no offence is intended.

sometimes you get what you ask for and the only one disadvantaged by the contents on this forum is marc and his business, some other organisations will engage and provide an income stream, a lot won't because of the content and their perception of the forum membership and their spending habits which are so readily obvious.

[Phantom]

 a lot won't because of the content and their perception of the forum membership and their spending habits which are so readily obvious.

 

Readily obvious to whom exactly?

Neither you nor your recalcitrant exhibitors are familiar with the spending habits of SNA members. In point of fact the amount and variety of equipment owned and purchased by members here is so broad as to be statistically insignificant for anyone to be able to point to a trend, let alone an entire demographic.

 

Companies should never fear their customers and members of this site are their customers and your customers. If commercial entities fear their customers or fear enthusiasts then they are either making the wrong product that is not in demand or they are making a product that is deeply flawed.

Most, if not all product development, takes customer experiences and perceptions into account as part of the product's DNA,otherwise it is just an exercise in intellectual delusion.

 

I hasten to add that it isn't my intention to make this personal, but you give a sense of being patronising towards people's buying choices and appear to be an apologist for overly precious companies who want to tell people what is food for them. IOW, they are covering  their ears so they remain conservative and rearward looking in their business dealings and this a classical example of moribund companies circling the drain because they stopped listening years ago.

[samman]

We did both shows in Melbourne and Sydney and will be back in Melbourne again in October. We consider the shows as a not for initial profit experience because punters are there for a gander and nothing else. The vast majority race between rooms and make judgements between friends about sounds emanating from unrealistic situations and illogical expectations. The only meaningful contact you have is generally with strangers about non audio equipment related topics, ie. music and food.

You need to build a reliable presence over a period of time in order to approach a sense of trust and given the cost of the products we sell, trust is a very important common ground.

The reluctance of the show organisers to engage with web forums is merely a reflection of forums to have a tendency to eat their own and with the constant negative attitude towards traditional models of retail, it's a hard sell to turn to exhibitors and say we are going to use sna as a format for promotion and then be handed a plate of bile dredged from these pages over issues of price rip offs, offensive service or lack of, promotions of group buys from overseas suppliers, how much cheaper, faster, better everything is than the services provided by those same exhibitors you are hoping to be attracted by attaching sna as a media co contributor.

It's all well and fine to say we have this many visitors and we are important but one ill informed comment or spiteful post will stay longer in the memory bank of any potential customer much longer than any positive appraisal. I will never want to see a sanitised only positive spin version of sna but with this forum as it is at the moment, it would be difficult to engage a conservative English company in sharing a media platform with a forum that so openly through its members, calls into question of rorting and corrupt behaviour the very companies it seeks to have as paying exhibitors.

Regards,g.

 

 

Hi G

 

Well said you've hit the nail on the head with this ......

[Guest guru]

 a lot won't because of the content and their perception of the forum membership and their spending habits which are so readily obvious.

 

Readily obvious to whom exactly?

Neither you nor your recalcitrant exhibitors are familiar with the spending habits of SNA members. In point of fact the amount and variety of equipment owned and purchased by members here is so broad as to be statistically insignificant for anyone to be able to point to a trend, let alone an entire demographic.

 

Companies should never fear their customers and members of this site are their customers and your customers. If commercial entities fear their customers or fear enthusiasts then they are either making the wrong product that is not in demand or they are making a product that is deeply flawed.

Most, if not all product development, takes customer experiences and perceptions into account as part of the product's DNA,otherwise it is just an exercise in intellectual delusion.

 

I hasten to add that it isn't my intention to make this personal, but you give a sense of being patronising towards people's buying choices and appear to be an apologist for overly precious companies who want to tell people what is food for them. IOW, they are covering  their ears so they remain conservative and rearward looking in their business dealings and this a classical example of moribund companies circling the drain because they stopped listening years ago.

Funny how you can have 2 conversations with the same person and get 2 completely different outcomes. Whatever.

[Phantom]

Well Guru. I wish you all the best and no harm.

 

Whatever indeed.

[Gruffnutz]

Hi G

 

Well said you've hit the nail on the head with this ......

 

I thought he hit himself on the head...

[Luc]

Is there a more derisory put down or such an intellectually lazy one as: "Whatever."

 

 

I have no idea who you are or who you represent Guru(and yes I can read your signature) but your post #58 is just an appalling put down of members here at SNA and snide+smarmy to boot.

 

 In my case it represents a guarantee for me that I'll never knowingly deal with the company you represent.

 

As Marc said: "Can of worms, opened etc etc.

[Rob181]

Hmmm...Guru makes some valid points...AMG Toppers a perfect example.

 

However so does Phantom...and his are equally as valid...how many NAD M51's were sold as a direct result of the SNA Forum...another perfect example at the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

The bottom line is...if your product is at the pointy end of technology, good quality and good value for money...then you have nothing to fear and everything to gain by being part of SNA...Rob

[firefly0071]

Hmmm...Guru makes some valid points...AMG Toppers a perfect example.

 

However so does Phantom...and his are equally as valid...how many NAD M51's were sold as a direct result of the SNA Forum...another perfect example at the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

The bottom line is...if your product is at the pointy end of technology, good quality and good value for money...then you have nothing to fear and everything to gain by being part of SNA...Rob

It's dollars that count and not votes.

[Guest guru]

Is there a more derisory put down or such an intellectually lazy one as: "Whatever."

 

 

I have no idea who you are or who you represent Guru(and yes I can read your signature) but your post #58 is just an appalling put down of members here at SNA and snide+smarmy to boot.

 

 In my case it represents a guarantee for me that I'll never knowingly deal with the company you represent.

 

As Marc said: "Can of worms, opened etc etc.

just so you have the context right, pete and i exchanged pm's mid december over auditioning some speakers, he indicated he was in the process of moving and we would catch up when he is next in sydney, best of the season to all and thanks all round. next conversation is public and i'm recalcitrent, patronising and apologising on behalf of others. hence my remark over 2 conversations with 1 person but 2 outcomes, i could have bit back  but i let it slide, whatever will be will be, no big drama.

i don't know what your buy in was but i hope you feel better for it.

[Gruffnutz]

...You need to build a reliable presence over a period of time in order to approach a sense of trust and given the cost of the products we sell, trust is a very important common ground...

 

And yet, when challenged by a potential customer, you reveal the content of an unrelated private conversation to try to illustrate that the person is somehow duplicitous?  That'll get you a whole lot of 'trust'.  It is hardly surprising that you can have '2 conversations with 1 person but 2 outcomes' when they're conversations about completely different things.  That seems pretty normal to me.

 

As to what Luc's 'buy in' is; you made a number of statements that were very derogatory about the membership of SNA in particular, and attendees at HiFi shows in general.  You seem to take a pretty dim view of your potential customers (you know; the ones you want to trust you), and presume mostly poor motivations on their part.  Not just in this thread either; it's a consistent attitude.  You can hardly be surprised if the odd person takes exception at being described as 'illogical' or 'ill-informed'.

 

[sir sanders zingmore]

I take great pride in being illogical and uninformed