Jump to content
2024-StereoNET-Logo-20-Years
stickeyLogo

2m Black - Bright

jg@speedofsound
 Share

Recommended Posts

jg@speedofsound Collaborator

jg@speedofsound

Posted
Posted (edited)

Firstly, thanks for a great forum. Great to see so many like-minded people livin' the dream.

I have a Gyrodec/Tecnoarm?Lehmann Blackcube which I was using with a Grado platinum. Not too shabby with my Gryphon Atilla and B&W 804's.

Upgrade bug bites. Enter a 2m Black.

I'm 20 ish hours in and wondering if its lined up right. I know they are sensitive to rake angle and have toed the VTA down at the back but I'm finding it a bit harsh/fatiguing on some tracks and a bit toppy compared to the Grado, on others.

Is this just the sound of this "revered" cartridge? The Grado, whilst lacking in speed was warm and had plenty of presence in the bottom end.

I'm also thinking about purchasing a Manley Chinook. Will that give me more oomph?

Thanks

Edited by jg@speedofsound
  • Replies 30
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

at68
at68

jg, if you have come from the Grado Platinum I am not suprised. I had the same experience trying a 2m blue. The grado / ortofon switch is like chalk and cheese. Most folks would gravitate in one direc

ZEN MISTER
ZEN MISTER

JG, I opened your post with some excitement, expecting to find a mention of the first black snake of the season , in the town of Bright. Yesterday being the first really warm day of the season, and ev

DRC
DRC

I am not familiar with the sound of the 2M Black. A couple of suggestions - 1. Give it another 20 hours. 2. Have a play with the input loading on your phono stage, there may be some benefit with res

ZEN MISTER Grand Champion

ZEN MISTER

Posted
Posted

JG, I opened your post with some excitement, expecting to find a mention of the first black snake of the season , in the town of Bright. Yesterday being the first really warm day of the season, and everything....

I duely note some disappointment.

Have fun anyway.

ZM.

  • Like 1
DRC Veteran

DRC

Posted
Posted

I am not familiar with the sound of the 2M Black. A couple of suggestions -

1. Give it another 20 hours.

2. Have a play with the input loading on your phono stage, there may be some benefit with respect to the brightness you are experiencing.

  • Like 1
Guest Muon

Guest Muon

Posted
Posted (edited)

Give the cart a little more time to settle in, I have read people saying up to 50hrs is required.

Try and get the rake angle as close to perfect as possible too.

What capacitance loading have you got on it? the manual recommends 150pf to 300pf @ 47k.

Edit: Ah..beaten by DRC ;)

Edited by datafone
metal beat Life Member

metal beat

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi JG

The Ortofon Black is a neutral cartridge that is not warm sounding like the Grado. It is a very good cartridge, but like all things in hifi, synergy is king.

You probably have too much of a good thing with your Lehman phono,Gyrphon and B&W speakers. Give the black some more time for the cartridge and your ears, however I feel it may just be showing how the system is voiced now.

A tube phono or more forgiving cables will definately help.

cheers

Edited by turntable
  • Like 1
Guest Muon

Guest Muon

Posted
Posted

Very good advise from Turntable.

With capacitance loading, maybe play with that loading once you have another 20 or 30hrs up.

A J Grand Champion

A J

Posted
Posted

I have been running a 2M black through a GCPH PS Audio into some Plinius amps - I wouldn't say its bright at all, in fact I tried directly feeding the PS via balanced into a pair of Ncore monoblocks, now these are very uncloured as against the Plinius being slightly on the warm side, I found the combo to be breathtaking, massive detail but again I wouldn't have said it was at all bright. AJ

sean Experienced

sean

Posted
Posted

Interesting thread.

I have a 2M Black/Rega 3 combo and was running the PS Audio GCPH. The amp combo is a ME25 pre and ME850 power driving a set of Thiel CS5's. My experience with this cart, tt, amp, speaker combo was a lot of top end, brightness. Especially with some of the new vinyl I have. It was fine with some of my older albums purchased in the 70's/80's. Had to play with the capacitance loading, which helped some but didn't cure the problem. I recently ended up selling the GCPH(regretfully, as it is a very good phono stage) and moved onto a Musical Fidelity M1. Result, no more top end/brightness probs.

Maybe borrow/try a different phono stage and see if that helps.

Cheers.

  • Like 1
jg@speedofsound Collaborator

jg@speedofsound

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks all. Much food for thought.

Dafafone, I'm going to stick with it for a while and let it bed in.There are clear advantages I can hear in the detail/soundstage dept.

Funny, the Grados do generate a lot of bad press!

I will try & prise an Origin Live pre from a mate and see how that fares sean.

Turntable, "Synergy is King".... we are all "chasing the dragon" no? Good advice though.

Thanks all. Keep the ideas coming!

brownemi Proficient

brownemi

Posted
Posted

Something else to try.

I had a similar set up but an Orbe, and with my technoarm it actually liked a little negative VTA with the 2m black, it took some of the shrill out. Rega arms can be like that.

brownemi Proficient

brownemi

Posted
Posted

I should add that negative VTA is lower at the tonearm base by a smidge. Play with it a little to see if by your ear it helps. I agree more playtime is needed ie 30 hours plus helps.

at68 Collaborator

at68

Posted
Posted

jg, if you have come from the Grado Platinum I am not suprised. I had the same experience trying a 2m blue. The grado / ortofon switch is like chalk and cheese. Most folks would gravitate in one direction or the other - you could be a grado man.

I have a Heybrook TT2, Rega 300 and tried all manner of tweaks but still found the 2m blue too bright for my taste. I am quite partial to the Grado sound, glorious mids, decent bass etc. The Platinum did not quite work on my set up due to sibilance.

But if you asked me which I would prefer to keep, The Grado would be the one.

Give it some more time, but if it doesnt work, could I suggest a Benz Micro Ace SL. I have just gone to that and found it to be the best of all worlds - detail, bass, gentle highs. highly recommended.

good luck adam.

  • Like 2
sean Experienced

sean

Posted
Posted

JG, forgot to mention that if you want to try out a different phono stage try dropping Keith a PM(aka cheekyboy here on SNA) He has a loaner program for Graham Slee phono stages.

It may be worth a try.

Cheers.

  • Like 1
jg@speedofsound Collaborator

jg@speedofsound

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks for all comments. I purchased a Project "align it" which placed the 2m back a bit (replaced a mofi aligment disc). Sibs a bit better, still too forward in mids. VTA kicked back a bit.

This thing does excell at Jazz...Rock is the thing thats too dense in the mids.

A footnote: The black cube doesn't appear to get on with the 2m (itchy feet). I have an Icon audio PS3 signature coming from Decibel for 2 week trial. Wish me luck entering "Valve Territory".

If anyone has experienced these all valve examples, please let me kow your thoughts.

metal beat Life Member

metal beat

Posted
Posted

Thanks for all comments. I purchased a Project "align it" which placed the 2m back a bit (replaced a mofi aligment disc). Sibs a bit better, still too forward in mids. VTA kicked back a bit.

This thing does excell at Jazz...Rock is the thing thats too dense in the mids.

A footnote: The black cube doesn't appear to get on with the 2m (itchy feet). I have an Icon audio PS3 signature coming from Decibel for 2 week trial. Wish me luck entering "Valve Territory".

If anyone has experienced these all valve examples, please let me kow your thoughts.

Now your talking :thumb:

ochremoon Proficient

ochremoon

Posted
Posted

This thing does excell at Jazz...Rock is the thing thats too dense in the mids.

My experience exactly. I find the 2M Black all I could ever want for jazz, but less than stellar with rock when there's a lot going on.

  • Like 1
sean Experienced

sean

Posted
Posted

any thoughts on Cartridge choice? The Icon has changed things for the better I must admit.

I too was quite surprised what a change of phono stage made to the 2M Black.

Glad it is working out for you.

Cheers.

  • Like 1
jg@speedofsound Collaborator

jg@speedofsound

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Just a further note to this topic. I still have the Icon PS3 and have to make a call on that soon. It hasn't tamed what I thought was the 2m Black not getting on with the Black cube.

In an effort to stop obsessing about gear and get on with listening to music here is a quick cartridge comparison from last night.

Gyrodec/tecnoarm, Gryphon Atilla, B&W 804 Nautilus, Belden/Chord cable.

2M Black

+'s Best soundstage ever if it likes the record, Punchy bass, best Jazz cart-period.Incredible pace & finesse at extremes

-'s Fatiguing mids even through valves, Paranoia about set-up (I keep adjusting VTA), CD sounding?

Grado ref platinum (high OP)My go-to cartridge

+'s full bodied, more tolerant, romantic, more forgiving across a wide range of music.

-'s overblown bass (can be an advantage on thin 70's pressings), loss of definition/soundstage, loss of vocal focus

Denon DL 304 (an experiment in low OP MC, 30 hrs-been in the cupboard for a few years)

+'s Some surprises here: punchy bass and a nice match for the Icon, sounded flat as a tack on the Black cube. Politically correct across all frequencies.

-'s low output (didn't worry the icon one bit). Little WOW factor. Bet it's great on classical. Why do people revere the 103, I'm not quite sure.

Conclusion: I've made a rod for my own back introducing another pre to this debate but it is a thing of beauty Jury still out on the 2M.It may be too clinical for my 60's 70's music It may appear in FS. now for a Benz ACE.......hmmmm. Any other suggestions for a slightly romantic all rounder welcome. I want it all and under 1k!

Edited by jg@speedofsound
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...
To Top