holliswhy Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) Possibily, the topic may have been visited or discussed. Cliche idea. But listening to neil young's tonight's the night album, i wondered which musical element defines or draws a line between pop in 2012 and this album. Indeed, lyrically, it is obvious and easy to identify the embedded affection available from neil young. Poetics, romanic, and self doubt, to me, this dominates the album. It was easy for me to conclude that pop had none of this characteristics. Lyrics are direct, unimaginative and are designed to act like mcdonalds advertising. Brain washing. My question tonight is, how would one identify and separate pop and emotionless music to the neil young sound? What are the musical characteristics that make it affecting and emotional? Edited September 4, 2012 by holliswhy
proftournesol Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 Neil Young's music is personal and idiosyncratic, modern pop has been approved by the focus groups. 2
ZEN MISTER Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) Good to hear you are listening to that particular album. It, plus " ON THE BEACH"- and "TIME FADES AWAY" are commonly known as The Doom Trilogy. "Tonight" and " Time Fades.." were comparative failures in a commercial sense when originally released. Only with the passing of the years have their artistic merits been reappraised and given their due. This was the era when Neil discovered the joys of writing and playing 'uncompromising' and uncommercial music. What he gave us was a direct insight into what was in his heart , mind and soul. Bare, raw, sometimes beautiful, never easy. I think this gets to the heart of your question- he is an artist, driven to express himself honestly, with no concessions to fads or fashion. I remember hearing him on the International Harvesters Tour many years ago. The first half of the concert was very country tinged and joyous- Neil and the band obviously enjoying themselves. Then, some prick in the audience shouted, " Play some rock and roll". Without missing a beat, Neil sneered " If you think it's easy you come up and play it." So much of the 'music' served up today is committee generated, soulless, buffed and monotonous. It springs from a commercial imperative, not an artistic one. To get to the gold, you have to listen with discernment, open ears, and be willing to try something new occasionally. I have picked up on some great leads from this forum, for which I am very thankful. That you have listened to "Tonight's The Night" , presumably knowing the back story, and not run screaming from the room is very encouraging. Edited September 4, 2012 by Zen Mister 1
Full Range Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 I'm my day ( as I grew up with Neil Young ) he and a few others were the favoured musicians that surfers listened to If I can add anything to the topic Neil Young told wonderful stories in condensed form, he striped away anything unnesasary and added music to the words I know it's a simplistic view but it's not easy to get to the essence of his insight
maryusdemetry Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 Neil Young's music is personal and idiosyncratic, modern pop has been approved by the focus groups. Sad but true
surprisetech Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 Good to hear you are listening to that particular album. It, plus " ON THE BEACH"- and "TIME FADES AWAY" are commonly known as The Doom Trilogy. "Tonight" and " Time Fades.." were comparative failures in a commercial sense when originally released. Only with the passing of the years have their artistic merits been reappraised and given their due. This was the era when Neil discovered the joys of writing and playing 'uncompromising' and uncommercial music. What he gave us was a direct insight into what was in his heart , mind and soul. Bare, raw, sometimes beautiful, never easy. I think this gets to the heart of your question- he is an artist, driven to express himself honestly, with no concessions to fads or fashion. I remember hearing him on the International Harvesters Tour many years ago. The first half of the concert was very country tinged and joyous- Neil and the band obviously enjoying themselves. Then, some prick in the audience shouted, " Play some rock and roll". Without missing a beat, Neil sneered " If you think it's easy you come up and play it." So much of the 'music' served up today is committee generated, soulless, buffed and monotonous. It springs from a commercial imperative, not an artistic one. To get to the gold, you have to listen with discernment, open ears, and be willing to try something new occasionally. I have picked up on some great leads from this forum, for which I am very thankful. That you have listened to "Tonight's The Night" , presumably knowing the back story, and not run screaming from the room is very encouraging. That would about sum it up for me too. There are artists who write songs and/or sing and/or play music. Then there are the others who write songs and/or sing and/or play music.
RoHo Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 While I agree that there is a vast chasm dividing landmark rock works like TTN from current commercial pop I think it's a mistake to use this as a comment on current pop. TTN was a commercial disaster - it was nowhere near the mainstream. Commercial pop, the stuff the radio plays, has almost always been 75% rubbish. Look at what radio was playing back in '75 when TTN was released: Bay City Rollers, Hush, Abba, Eagles plus all the tacky stuff we've just forgotten about. It was no better , or worse, than what you hear today. Well.... maybe worse in the opinion of us SNA'ers but that could possibly be a generational thing. There's always been good music around, still is. You just have to turn off the commercial radio and go out and find it. 3
holliswhy Posted September 5, 2012 Author Posted September 5, 2012 While I agree that there is a vast chasm dividing landmark rock works like TTN from current commercial pop I think it's a mistake to use this as a comment on current pop. TTN was a commercial disaster - it was nowhere near the mainstream. Commercial pop, the stuff the radio plays, has almost always been 75% rubbish. Look at what radio was playing back in '75 when TTN was released: Bay City Rollers, Hush, Abba, Eagles plus all the tacky stuff we've just forgotten about. It was no better , or worse, than what you hear today. Well.... maybe worse in the opinion of us SNA'ers but that could possibly be a generational thing. There's always been good music around, still is. You just have to turn off the commercial radio and go out and find it. I agree. We cannot condem a generation of music as it is unfair to those producing emotional stuff. Unfortunately, the 70s isnt talkin about my generation. I grew up with the Spice girls, Britney Spears, and other tools. It was fortunate for me to discover alternative music via 00s friends. But what note and chord in neil youngs music that draws you in? How can the same chords have such different affection?
RoHo Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 But what note and chord in neil youngs music that draws you in? How can the same chords have such different affection? That's the question, innit? At the extremes music is either art or entertainment. It either comes from the soul expressing genuine emotion or it's a planned performance. And genuine art can be intensely moving. TTN is one of the most raw, stark pieces of emotion ever recorded in rockdom. But I don't think you can break it down into individual bits to find where the magic lies. It's in the vibe of the whole thing (with apologies to The Castle)
hgholden Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 I admire Neil Young and have a number of his albums but for the life of me I dont get "Le Noise" however I do admire him for putting it out there for all of us to listen to and make our judgements be it critical or otherwise. Maybe thats it? hgholden
Tollbags Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) [media=] [/media]guess thats like asking if you belive in a God? Or do you have faith? and is Neil the new messiah? All been done tables turned and all...but reality stays the same. Edited September 5, 2012 by tolley
Tollbags Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) worst $100 bucks I've spent is to see Neil Young at the Myer Music Bowl...I'm sworn of that joint. Second badoozled gig for $100. But his albums rock? The other $100 bucks I spent at the Myer bullshit bowl was Jack Johson..and I heard some teenagers saying how good the sound was..it was ******* dire. Edited September 5, 2012 by tolley
Tollbags Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 So pop is only what level the masses are at...but is music all about being above? Or is it just ******* fun?..Pop? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB00GTgyxMk
Tollbags Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) Who is Bernard Cribbins? Neill Young? A Messiah? Jesus? allah? Prime Minister...Presidet..El President? The difference between your idol and anothers..... [media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-08aTQSuJpM[/media] is once upon atime you had to play an instrument. Now you just sample that **** dude. And you are old if you can hear the samples....but Apple are suing Samsung? Nothing created in a void...but? Guess Microsoft, Androi .. Google..never thought about copyright...but ******* apple, a name they stole and the court case was only dropped once a certain George Harrison passed? Edited September 5, 2012 by tolley
Tollbags Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 And the name "Apple" such a precious one..why not "Orange"? There is amplifers called that..."Pear" whimpy..apple was the first sin...temptation..the Christian thing..who knows it could have been pork? There is no pop ....only you...or prog or punk?
Tollbags Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 and it aint gonna last http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOJgOhCTy1c where is Terry Kath on the guitar scale? What is pop and what was pop when you was young? where is Kath or Kim..it was pop and still is enjoyable.
RoHo Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 I admire Neil Young and have a number of his albums but for the life of me I dont get "Le Noise" however I do admire him for putting it out there for all of us to listen to and make our judgements be it critical or otherwise. Maybe thats it? hgholden Exactly, HG. NY has never produced music in order to please critics or fans, it's just what he feels like doing at that moment. It may be well received (TTN, Ragged Glory) or critically bashed (Shocking Pinks). It may be commercially successful (Harvest, Rust Never Sleeps, Freedom) or die a death out in the market (TTN, Time Fades Away, Life). It just doesn't matter to him. And I agree with you about Le Noise. I thought the first track was interesting but after that it was pretty dull with rather embarrassing lyrics-something his recent albums have unfortunately featured.
ZEN MISTER Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 worst $100 bucks I've spent is to see Neil Young at the Myer Music Bowl...I'm sworn of that joint. Second badoozled gig for $100. But his albums rock? The other $100 bucks I spent at the Myer bullshit bowl was Jack Johson..and I heard some teenagers saying how good the sound was..it was ******* dire. Of interest, which gig at the Bowl- the Greendale tour, or the more recent show. If the latter, we got My Morning Jacket playing a beautiful set as opener, then Neil playing a stormer, all in 48 degree heat. You cannot blame him for the weather, or the state of the 'lawns'. He and his band were brilliant, with a crystal clear sound system. ZM.
proftournesol Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 I admire Neil Young and have a number of his albums but for the life of me I dont get "Le Noise" however I do admire him for putting it out there for all of us to listen to and make our judgements be it critical or otherwise. Maybe thats it? hgholden that album is a good case in point, I really like it, but if Neil Young errs at all, its in the direction of experimentation, if mainstream pop errs, its in the direction of banality. I've been to all NY's concerts in Melbourne, both Music Bowl ones. The Greendale one was fantastic, the sound at the most recent one was shocking, probably the worst concert sound I've ever experienced, but that was probably because we had an expensive seat right next to the side wall about 15 rows from the front and despite having a great view it was like listening to the concert in the cone of silence.
hired goon Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 G'day, But listening to neil young's tonight's the night album, i wondered which musical element defines or draws a line between pop in 2012 and this album. Hmmm ... a rather specific distinction to draw there. Tonight's The Night is a 1975 sloppy bar-room rawk and/or roll album about seedy stuff like drugs and overdoses. Pop in 2012 is polished bass-heavy synthesized auto-tuned ditties about teh sekks and how I am so gangsta. You may as well ask what's the difference between Blue Poles and a velvet rendition of Elvis. Not too many who like the latter are gunna like the former, and there's no single "line" to draw between 'em. --Geoff
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