twwen2 Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) But it's time to call bullshit on some of this stuff. It's time to call bullshit on five-figure interconnects and four-figure isolation cones. It's time to call bullshit on $30,000 amplifiers that would be priced to sell for $10,000, tops, if not for their massive, jewelry-like casework.We are crippled not so much by fraud as by a bit of greed, a bit of sloppy, cost-ineffective engineering, and a lack of willingness on the part of us all to speak up and say, I'm sorry, but an interconnect is not, under any conditions, worth as much as a new car. For me, that lack of willingness ends today. http://www.stereophi...ntent/skin-deep It's refreshing to hear this kind of sentiment from someone in a position like Art's. I think a bit of sanity goes a long way in hobbies like ours, where I find it's easy to get carried away "because I can". I'd also suggest that the market's natural response to this issue is found in the emergence of manufacturers such as Audio-gd, where you can be sure that most of what you're paying for is good design and use of quality components. There will always be a small market for people with unlimited funds who want to feel like they have the best available (and pride of ownership is definitely important), but it's also important that the market accomodates for customers who don't need the bling but appreciate products that perform at or near the high-end while still providing good value for money. Edited August 29, 2012 by twwen2 5
New Sensations Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 Just read this myself. Great sentiment, nicely expressed.
twwen2 Posted August 29, 2012 Author Posted August 29, 2012 It was your FB post that alerted me to the article in the first place.
joz Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 Funny about that! I'm sorry, but an interconnect is not, under any conditions, worth as much as a new car. For me, that lack of willingness ends today. Funny about that! Yet some will still argue the point!
Sir Triode Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 Yup - At last some sanity has returned to at least one of the reviewers. I've been saying the same thing to others here for a while now. if one was to take inflation (4% p.a.) into account. There is no way amps should cost over $20K USD for the top of the line examples. 1
Sir Triode Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 Funny about that! Funny about that! Yet some will still argue the point! Only those who are: 1. Deluded themselves. 2. Have a hidden agenda to do so. 1
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted August 29, 2012 Volunteer Posted August 29, 2012 Why has it taken him so long? Has he just realised it now or has he been deliberately lying all this time? Credit to him for saying what he did, but I seriously wonder at what point reviewers become aware they are contributing to this stuff and why do they keep on doing it once they have?
twwen2 Posted August 29, 2012 Author Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Never underestimate the lengths people will go to in order to save face. I imagine it would be an even greater pressure facing people in the review industry, where reputations are directly related to readership numbers. Edited August 29, 2012 by twwen2
joz Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 Why has it taken him so long? Has he just realised it now or has he been deliberately lying all this time? Credit to him for saying what he did, but I seriously wonder at what point reviewers become aware they are contributing to this stuff and why do they keep on doing it once they have? People just say things they don't believe when on the payrol (politicians?) Perhaps an attack of concience made him fess up?
Jones99 Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 Get rid of BS in audio circles impossible......too many believe in the lies which are marketed.....lets hope this article will get some audiophiles to come to their senses. 1
Telecine Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 Only those who are: 1. Deluded themselves. 2. Have a hidden agenda to do so. I totally agree.
metal beat Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Grandstanding for grandstanding sake? Perhaps Art should look in the mirror. He does not live what he preaches?. At least Sam Telling owns and lives with reasonable priced gear He owns at 13.5k Shindo pre amp and a 14k Shindo amp. He used to own a 30k Lamm amp. People are free to spend what they like on hifi, drugs, sex or whatever else takes their fancy. You don't need to spend lots of $$ if you don't want to. Edited August 29, 2012 by turntable 2
Saxon Hall Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 It is an interesting article. He could have mentioned power boards which seem to be reaching astronomical prices. 6 outlets ( USA style) no lead, that's extra , $350http://www.ebay.com....=item2c67c060ea What about this a Nordost Valhalla 4 metre speaker cable preloved for only $2995, wow what a bargain.http://www.ebay.com....=item2574c51522 1
Sir Triode Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 Grandstanding for grandstanding sake? Perhaps Art should look in the mirror. He does not live what he preaches?. At least Sam Telling owns and lives with reasonable priced gear He owns at 13.5k Shindo pre amp and a 14k Shindo amp. He used to own a 30k Lamm amp. People are free to spend what they like on hifi, drugs, sex or whatever else takes their fancy. You don't need to spend lots of $$ if you don't want to. Perhaps he has seen the light and decided enough of this BS.
Addicted to music Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 It is an interesting article. He could have mentioned power boards which seem to be reaching astronomical prices. 6 outlets ( USA style) no lead, that's extra , $350http://www.ebay.com....=item2c67c060ea What about this a Nordost Valhalla 4 metre speaker cable preloved for only $2995, wow what a bargain.http://www.ebay.com....=item2574c51522 What about gold plated silver doped fuses at $40AUD a pop. Cant justified that or $350 power boards. I just dont see the value in this! What everyone dont realised about these items is that the live end in most stereo gear is separated and isolation from a step down transformer. The audio signal doesnt route through these neck of the woods. And only if they saw the building electrical! This area of improvement I class as over marketing! But every improvement helps???? If only SNAers knew what speaker cable I am using; 30A 6.00mm wiring that solid core, terrible to move but I got 100m role for free! I think it about $3.00/mtr at Bunnings!!!!! You are the MAN Art! Someone in your status had do something! 2
jaspert Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 This 2011 article about the current hi end marketing trend from John Atkinson is worth a read too. http://www.stereophile.com/content/upward-price-spiral 1
LogicprObe Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 What about gold plated silver doped fuses at $40AUD a pop. Cant justified that or $350 power boards. I just dont see the value in this! What everyone dont realised about these items is that the live end in most stereo gear is separated and isolation from a step down transformer. The audio signal doesnt route through these neck of the woods. And only if they saw the building electrical! This area of improvement I class as over marketing! But every improvement helps???? If only SNAers knew what speaker cable I am using; 30A 6.00mm wiring that solid core, terrible to move but I got 100m role for free! I think it about $3.00/mtr at Bunnings!!!!! You are the MAN Art! Someone in your status had do something! Shine on you crazy diamond!
robin-hobart Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 What about this a Nordost Valhalla 4 metre speaker cable preloved for only $2995, wow what a bargain.http://www.ebay.com....=item2574c51522 Pooh! I wouldn't get out of bed to only pay $2995 for speaker cables. Unless they're at least $GBP20k per 2.5m pair, don't bother to wake me up:- http://www.highendca...eaker Cable.htm
Saxon Hall Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 Pooh! I wouldn't get out of bed to only pay $2995 for speaker cables. Unless they're at least $GBP20k per 2.5m pair, don't bother to wake me up:- http://www.highendca...eaker Cable.htm As Mr Barnum once said "There is one born every minute" 1
Addicted to music Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 Pooh! I wouldn't get out of bed to only pay $2995 for speaker cables. Unless they're at least $GBP20k per 2.5m pair, don't bother to wake me up:- http://www.highendca...eaker Cable.htm Imagine that, getting up to get 4 metres of this stuff, mate I'd love to be the salesman here, the profit of 4 metres will set me up for 6mths without doing anything, or place me in a position to get my 1st porche!!!
alistairm Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 $2995 for 4m of Valhalla would be a steal. Honestly, I don't get all the angst about this. It's not as if anyone is forced to buy expensive gear with a gun to their heads. And it's not as if there isn't a wide range of keenly priced alternatives for audiophiles to explore, including in the cables market. It's like cars to some extent. A Corolla will get you from A to B safely and reliably. A cheap second hand MX5 is one of he most fun cars you can buy for any money, and offers driver involvement & an absence of electronic nannies lacking from most supercars. There is no economically rational reason to pay $320k for a new Porsche 911 cabriolet. But I'm sure glad there's a market for them anyway. The world would be less interesting for me without a 911. Why shouldn't you be able to drop $30k for gorgeous, "jewelry like casework" if you want to? Should we all be limited to kit amps with exposed PCBs because they're better value? If the market can bear the price and those brands remain profitable, good on them! I see that article more as a publication that's lacked credibility in its reviews forever trying to win some back, rather than a legitimate gripe. And you know what else? High end statement products in most engineering fields is what drives the R&D that sees innovation trickle down into the consumer level products. Take cars again. In 1978 Mercedes-Benz released the first commercial passenger vehicle with ABS, in its S class. By 1984 it was standard across the full MB line up. These days I doubt you can buy any new car without ABS, no matter how cheap. I'm not sure it's as plainly applicable to audio, but in most fields everyone benefits eventually from manufacturers who have leading edge statement products that most people will never buy, but into which they grow their best R&D. Back to audio. Yes, we all know some of it is BS. Yes, we all fall into the little pshycological self-protection mechanism of justifying our own spend as the best bang for buck & poo pooing stuff higher up the food chain. Yes, most ultra high end gear has a premium that can't be justified from an engineering stand point. But I'd suggest we take Art's spineless attempt to recover some credibilility for an outfit that's basically raved about every product in its pages forever with a grain of salt & celebrate the fact that there is still a high end market in this hobby we love. Especially when the value end of the market is strong too. Let's enjoy the astromocially priced gear from afar, be grateful a market exists so that the world is enriched by some of the marvelous hgh end gear and stop trying to turn audio into a race to the bottom, where the only criterion for manufacturers is good value. 2
Recommended Posts