joamonte Posted April 29, 2013 Posted April 29, 2013 Just wonder how many XP audiophile added super tweeter to their soeaker system? Can share is there any benifit or trade off to sound after adding it to your system?
Guest james46 Posted April 29, 2013 Posted April 29, 2013 Every time I add the top, the bottom sound better too. ???
chaozhoi Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 used to use them, overall sounds more 3D than without the super tweeter. Stopped using them after I change to B&Ws
joamonte Posted April 30, 2013 Author Posted April 30, 2013 used to use them, overall sounds more 3D than without the super tweeter. Stopped using them after I change to B&Ws Why stop using if it sound more 3D with it?
joamonte Posted April 30, 2013 Author Posted April 30, 2013 Every time I add the top, the bottom sound better too. ??? Only good,no bad?
Guest james46 Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 9 out of 10 time is bad. As for the good depend on how much you spend and how you do it.
jeromelang Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 Super tweeters cannot anyhow add on wan ah. For example: Many speakers' tweeters and maybe also the mid-range driver could have been wired in inverted polarity. It is possible that adding the super tweeters, you could end up having in the treble (or even midrange) overlap region, one driver moving in one direction, and the other(s) moving in another, causing some form of phase cancellation. And those using d'Appolito driver configuration or off-centered tweeter mounting will not be able to get proper imaging alignment. Check your speakers' specs first.....
malsound Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 Beside what have already being mention, the hardest part is to get it to integrate seamlessly with your speaker. It is not always with the most expensive crossover part that will blend in well with your speakers and I still get a few paper and oil cap in my tool box to prove it. ;D One tweeter that I find annoying is those Piezo tweeter but they are excellent for Cha Cha music.
chaozhoi Posted May 1, 2013 Posted May 1, 2013 Why stop using if it sound more 3D with it? used it with my JBL floorstanders, but I think my B&W got enough highs from its own tweeters.. plus i am unable to place it on those BW due to their original on top of the speakers
jefmohd Posted May 1, 2013 Posted May 1, 2013 S tweeter should be the last to add on to your hifi rig. Yes, overall sound will be 3D. You may and may not like it. For a "top" S tweeter will cost about 4k-5k with built in cross over. Fostex top model S tweeter + custom cross over will cost about 3k.
joamonte Posted May 1, 2013 Author Posted May 1, 2013 So there are no one here use a super tweeter and say it is a "must use" item in his system? OMG! so many Super tweeter product in market and I thought it is popular because it work in many system... ;D JTL I agree with your observation , I have heard a few system that after add in Super tweeter sound turn odd too, once disconnect the super tweeter the sound become much "correct" to my wooden ear..... But I get interested in Super tweeter recently because I tried a arrangement in my friend place , he is using a Harberth M40.1 which in theory should already have good high extension, and add in a tweeter did affect not only the sound , even our measurement also show the phase is affected.... My Friend insist to use a Super tweeter (since it is already in the system), after tried a few adjustment (including the different Freq point and different gain) , we finally manage to find a way that I think it is really improving the sound... My friend living room is quite big and long (I guess about 6 m X 14m) and the speaker back baffle is about 1m away from its back wall. I posted this thread because I would like some other who using super tweeter to try our method and give me some command ....In theory I think I can explain why this method work well and why it don't affecting the original phase/time response of the speaker design, but if there are more user command to confirm it I would be more confidence saying "it work!" :o ;D ...anyone want to guess how we do it? ;D
jimi1624705950 Posted May 1, 2013 Posted May 1, 2013 You wire the super tweeters out of phase? Or perhaps you place it away from the speaker in such a way that it is in phase, so in front or behind the spkrs?
blue_starfish Posted May 1, 2013 Posted May 1, 2013 This is a high-end, and highly regarded super-tweeter that will cost +/- SGD2k when ordered from UK. Likely easier to integrate as has a 6-step switch. Comes in its own enclosure so can place for time-alignment. http://www.townshendaudio.com/supertweeters/
joamonte Posted May 2, 2013 Author Posted May 2, 2013 You wire the super tweeters out of phase? Or perhaps you place it away from the speaker in such a way that it is in phase, so in front or behind the spkrs? No bro....no matter in phase or out of phase, infront or behind the other , 2 tweeter still is 2 tweeter.... ...2 different tweeter is just like 2 blinking spot light with different color tone in a dark room pointing at you, no matter is it blinking together ( in phase) or not, you will still see the 2 different color light....so a simple way to minimun this effect would be?? :)
jimi1624705950 Posted May 2, 2013 Posted May 2, 2013 No bro....no matter in phase or out of phase, infront or behind the other , 2 tweeter still is 2 tweeter.... ...2 different tweeter is just like 2 blinking spot light with different color tone in a dark room pointing at you, no matter is it blinking together ( in phase) or not, you will still see the 2 different color light....so a simple way to minimun this effect would be?? :) OIC- forgot about that bit. Umm... Bin the super tweeter is easiest. Lol! Maybe point the super tweeter in the opposite direction to provide ambient adjunctive effect instead of directional component?
1AngMoh Posted May 2, 2013 Posted May 2, 2013 Hi J, Interested to know your definition of a super tweeter and whether or not you think they have a future? I know back in the old days super tweeters were considered to be devices at produced audio frequencies >20KHz. However, today, many loudspeakers are produced with tweeters that extend (as standard) to 50KHz.
econav Posted May 2, 2013 Posted May 2, 2013 No bro....no matter in phase or out of phase, infront or behind the other , 2 tweeter still is 2 tweeter.... ...2 different tweeter is just like 2 blinking spot light with different color tone in a dark room pointing at you, no matter is it blinking together ( in phase) or not, you will still see the 2 different color light....so a simple way to minimun this effect would be?? :) point that St to rear or side and use electronic to fine tune and you can make it to omi directional.
jeromelang Posted May 2, 2013 Posted May 2, 2013 The STs on my SS-M9ED go up to 100kHz These STs at one time could be purchased separately, with supplied crossovers. Even playing just RBCDs, with or without these STs, the soundstaging and imaging articulation is very different.
joamonte Posted May 2, 2013 Author Posted May 2, 2013 OIC- forgot about that bit. Umm... Bin the super tweeter is easiest. Lol! Maybe point the super tweeter in the opposite direction to provide ambient adjunctive effect instead of directional component? point that St to rear or side and use electronic to fine tune and you can make it to omi directional. Bingo! the only way to make the super tweeter "disappear but still appear" is to let it work as a back ground role instead of become another a main leading role in the show... this method some call "ambiance tweeter", not created by me, it have been in HiFi circle since there are Audiophile creature... ;D ....Wilson Alexandria and older flagship X1, All FM acoustic speaker , Genesis higher end model , Von Schweikert Flagship VR 9 , Vandersteen , Revel,Sonas faber etc etc....lot of high price speaker use this design secretly.. http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/wilson_x2/index3.html http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?7072-FM-Acoustics-XS-Speakers/page3 I am not saying without this the speaker will not sound great , but if already own a super tweeter and not happy with the sound why dont try this method and give us some command? As far as I concern, to use this method you need to have a few points to look at. 1) must have volume/gain control for the super tweeter. 2) the back wall of speaker must not cover too much area with soft adsorptive material or leave it totally bare...... some adsorbing panel is ok but dont cover the whole wall with it....if can use diffuser is even better. 3) I believe the crossover point must be higher than 10Khz, my friend using 20Khz , but using 1 capacitor 1st order filter mean at 10 Khz it is only reduce by 6 dB , still pretty loud.... so we need to reduce the volume a lot, to get the sound right. 4) the quality of the super tweeter is also quite important I think... 5) this is important, the distance from super tweeter to the back wall reflection point and to your ear, must be at least 6 ft further that the speaker tweeter direct path to you ear , in simple words is if you place your super tweeter on top of your speaker and ponting it back wall, the speaker must AT LEAST 3 ft away from the back wall ...this is to ensure the back wall reflection is at least 6 milli second after the direct sound of speaker (sound travel 1 ft per milli second) . when use it in the correct situation , the speaker disappear and the imaging, layering improvement is very obvious, the musicality do not affected at all ... it is especially useful when the listener is seat very far away from his back wall (more on this later) like my friend case who have about 6-7 meter space behind his seat. :)
joamonte Posted May 2, 2013 Author Posted May 2, 2013 Hi J, Interested to know your definition of a super tweeter and whether or not you think they have a future? I know back in the old days super tweeters were considered to be devices at produced audio frequencies >20KHz. However, today, many loudspeakers are produced with tweeters that extend (as standard) to 50KHz. this one explain better than me... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_tweeter To me , if your speaker already have enough high extension and you still add in additional tweeter , that is consider playing with super tweeter....not much to do with the super tweeter band width. (let's not forget CD red book only go up to 22Khz and most of our ear most properly cannot hear anything above 18Khz... ;D) :) Just to add some personal opinion , for speaker that extend high enough (20Khz), to add in super tweeter or not, is really depend on what you expecting to get form it ,some are expecting with a super tweeter the music will sound more "higher resolution", and the increase presence of 5 kHz above do able to create such impression , think of your ear suddenly can hear so much detail at very high Frequency above 10Khz, like when you will much younger ;D (although in theory it can also be done by EQ.... ::) ;D ) ....for my case I believe it is not quite possible to get 2 tweeter working on the same frequency, arrive the sound to your ear at same time and still maintain the nature feeling and flow of the music, if I have to jump into a conclusion.
joamonte Posted May 2, 2013 Author Posted May 2, 2013 The STs on my SS-M9ED go up to 100kHz These STs at one time could be purchased separately, with supplied crossovers. Even playing just RBCDs, with or without these STs, the soundstaging and imaging articulation is very different. I undertand the Sony 3/4" Super tweeter is design to kick in above 22Khz , but if it is using 6dB/octave filter at 11Khz it only soften by 6 dB, so it should have some impact on the CD sound ( that only limited its high at 22khz).. I guess the bottom 1" tweeter on the speaker baffle should not extend too high , mostly start roll of at 10 Khz if it want to match well with the super tweeter . :)
blue_starfish Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 Neat speakers have 2 upward firing super-tweeters in their entire Ultimitum range of speakers as part of their design. http://www.neat.co.uk/p_pages/xls.php
dBu Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 I have a pair of Pioneer PT-R100 Ribbon Type tweeter, it has wide dispersion angle, 98dB of sensitivity match/works well in my system. I am running active, cross at 8KHz.
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