Question on connecting sub to stereo

[lchua6]

Hi,

 

I am using my AV amp to play jazz music.

 

When using "pure direct" mode, the vocal is warm and clear, but the bass lack of dynamic.

 

I tried using "direct" mode to let my subs work on the bass. The bass improved significantly. The bass is slightly lower and has more dynamic (not louder). However the vocal becomes very bright. I removed all the phase C, S-wave and EQ but the vocal still lack the warm sound I heard from "pure direct" mode.

 

Since, I have 2 big subs, I was thinking of connecting one sub to the front speakers when playing "pure direct" mode. Please advice me how to do it.

 

1) The sub manual suggested "speaker level connection" (connecting the sub to the amp speaker at the same time with the front speakers are connected).

However, the amp manual on the other hand said don't do that. Which is right? I don't want to short circuit my amp or blow my speakers.

 

  My subwoofer's manual

  http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/42/99/S-W250S/media.html

 

2) Alternatively, can I set my amp to bi-amp and connect 2 channels to front speakers and 2 channers to subwoofer? Which is better?

 

3) Is there other better suggestions?

 

 

My set up:

 

SACD player: Pioneer PD-6

AV amp: Pioneer LX56

Speakers: Pioneer S-EU8

Subwoofers: 2 X Pioneer S-W250S

 

 

[tane0019]

I did a quick read-up on both manual & can't seem to find any one of them saying cannot use the speaker level connection from the amp to the sub.  Where do you read it ?  Maybe good for you to point to which page on the AV amp manual stating it .

 

What I think you should not do is to connect onto a single sub with both speaker level inputs & RCA inputs.

 

1) Make use of one sub for your HT sub pre-out.  (ie RCA)

 

2) Make use of another sub for stereo only (ie use the L/R speaker inputs).

 

 

 

 

 

[lchua6]

Thanks. Will option 2) "bi-amp" be better?

[tane0019]

Don't think there will be any different.

 

The speaker level inputs will not take a lot of power from the AV amp.

It simply take the speaker level inputs signal & amplify it using the sub inbuilt amp.

[lchua6]

;D Thank you very much!

[tane0019]

Do take note that after the connection, you will need to re-cal the HT cause now you only have one sub for HT.

The other sub use like part of the front L/R speaker.

[lchua6]

Calibrate for the sub for the stereo will be the difficult task. I don't have any equipment to help me.

[tane0019]

Not cal the sub for the stereo, but for the HT.

 

What I mentioned above is the cheapest method (ie only need one more pair of speaker cable), but will not be the best method to max your stereo experiences.

If I'm not wrong, your L/R speaker is a floorstanding one, right ?

 

The most effective method is to get a stereo power amp for the L/R speaker & see if the improvement is what you want first.

If OK, then leave the 2 subs for the HT only, else use one sub for the stereo L/R.

 

This int amp that can also act as a power amp can be one of the candidate: http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=135470.0

(got HT by-pass)

[lchua6]

That's posion. That amp RMS for 6ohm is approx. 190w but my speakers max is only 130w. Might be too powerful for my speakers. Worry it will blow my speakers when performing HT cal.

[tane0019]

My front speaker is rated 150W, but I'm using a 250W amp.

It will not blow your speaker if you're listening at normal sound level.

In fact higher amp power will improve & bring out your speaker potential.

 

BTW, your front speaker = floorstanding ?  Spec ??

[wizardofoz]

Using a lower power amp will damage your speakers when you push the amp to hard and go into clipping and distortion. Maybe not so bad on a subwoofer but for tweeters will be death.

[lchua6]

I always wanted a stereo amp with power direct, but got wife factor.  ;D Really temped to buy the amp you recommented.

 

By the way I like neutral sound.

 

My speakers are Pioneer S-EU8.

[tane0019]

My speakers are Pioneer S-EU8.

 

http://www.pioneer.com.sg/storefront/ProductDetail/default.asp?ProductId=385&CatId=64,10,68

S-EU have 3 type of speaker - floorstanding, bookshelf & center.

For your L/R, is it floorstanding one or bookshelf type ??

You've the detail spec ??

[econav]

For LX-56

Pure direct disable only the sub , but didt change the speaker setting and if you speaker was set to small or too high freq say 80/90/100hz , than you will loss the low extension ,

you may try setting the speaker to large or lower the freq than save the setting to M2/M3 and so on.

[lchua6]

Oh... I didn't know pure direct will still have frequency cut off. I will try switching the speaker to large. Thanks.

[tane0019]

???  ya lo, pure direct should output all freq to the front 2 channels ma.  Why LX56 like that one ???

[ALTK]

I oso tot 'pure direct' is directly sending all freq to front 2ch without going through any equalizer or any configuration!? That's why the AVR display panel light will oso turn off when set to pure direct.  ???

[francis wu]

As far as I know, if you are on hdmi, pure direct will output multi-channels under bitstream mode selected at the source (decoded by the AVR).  Your AVR display will show the HD codecs.  If you choose PCM, it will show only PCM under pure direct!! ::)

 

That's what coming out from my Pioneer LX83!

 

BTW, I am always on pure direct! :)

[econav]

is not only for LX-56 , all other AVR also the same ,as still very much depand on the speaker setting and roll off, that is also what AVR will never/not sound as good vs 2ch amp. ;)

if connected by RCA , you may not even have enough bass if speaker setting are at small on pure direct/direct mode, but on HDMI input is another story.

some AVR like denon 3/4 series , had this custom mode for 2CH/pure direct , that you can set the speaker size and roll off  and also with or without sub as what freq you want ;)

[lchua6]

HaHa... Thanks everyone. I succeed connecting my sub to my floor standing speaker. I cut off the sub frequency at 50hz. 

 

When play pure direct, the mid remain very neutral and the low becomes more dynamic with my enclosed sub.

 

I think I made the right decision to get a 2nd sub for my front speakers. Pioneer S-W250S is well build sub for music and it was used to match with Pioneer EX series (TAD) speakers. It is not a popular sub and cannot challenge the real good sub in the market. But for a price less than $2000, I think it is still a good buy.

[econav]

But for a price less than $2000, I think it is still a good buy.

 

you mean it cost close to 2K :o

[lchua6]

That sub weights 35kg each. I just like its look...  ;D

[tane0019]

I also like your front speaker - look very solid.

 

 

Unfortunately, unable to find the spec (driver sizes & etc ...) from the net.

 

Still think using AV amp instead of through a power amp cannot drive the potential out of these speaker.

[lchua6]

The spec

 

http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/archive/S-V810A/page.html