altis72 Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 Hi guys, I am fairly new to hi-fi and would like to find out why you would go for an Integrated Amp instead of Pre/Power Amp, besides cost issues and space constraints? Are separate components necessarily better?
Quest88 Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 If we assume that the integrated uses exactly the same components as the pre/power, the pre/power combination should be better in performance. Problem is the cost and size like you mentioned.. other than the equipment being more costly due to additional chassis and power supply, we need to factor in additional power cord, interconnects, etc. In reality, we'd usually be comparing an integrated versus a pre/power of same cost, which is where it can get more dicey.
blue_starfish Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 This is a generalisation. Pre-power will be quieter, hence more resolving and more dynamic due to non-shared power supply and the big transformer being placed further away from the pre-amp section. But if you are looking a low power integrateds, the trade-off is less apparent. There are some very good sounding audiophile integrateds out there that out-perform pre-power at same price band and possibly higher too. Some examples are by: Lavardin, Leben, LFD, Naim, Octave and Karan. In this lot, the Karan is the highest powered at 180W If the speakers are high efficiency, can safely use a low-powered integrated and save costs and space.
Quest88 Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 blue_starfish, good examples.. I seem to recall Lavardin's top end model is a integrated.
DJQ Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 I almost wanted to "downgrade" to integrated until I was shared not to. Bro blue starfish quoted very different brands.
char siew pau Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 I downgraded to an integrated. Sensitive speakers needed though and very the shiok! ;D
kzone Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 there r also more things that can go wrong with pre power.... interconnects, whether to use same pc for both, rca or balanced connection, rack/platforms...
chaozhoi Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 pre/power offers more flexibility and more things to 'play'.
kzone Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 Haha yeah true... the same thing cud mean more fun or headaches. take ur pick altis! the ultimate will be mono & separate power supplies, 8 piece pre power setup :)
2511-nerds Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 Haha yeah true... the same thing cud mean more fun or headaches. take ur pick altis! the ultimate will be mono & separate power supplies, 8 piece pre power setup :) Well, in theory, everything seperated would have better overall performance in sound. The only brand that i know of that have both pre-power seperate power supply in a chasis is the Roksan Caspian M2 int amp. But that is on the below 100w power.
ks Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 Haha yeah true... the same thing cud mean more fun or headaches. take ur pick altis! the ultimate will be mono & separate power supplies, 8 piece pre power setup :) Yba had a 6 chassis preamp n a 4 chassis monoblock. Not sure if it's still selling
kzone Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 Yeah... When it was still French. I think someone in this forum might still have dat. I recall seeing the pic with Avalon speakers. Almost like Norman Audio showroom. YBA also design it's integrated based on its lower model pre pro, and the former is very popular.
ks Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 Yeah... When it was still French. I think someone in this forum might still have dat. I recall seeing the pic with Avalon speakers. Almost like Norman Audio showroom. YBA also design it's integrated based on its lower model pre pro, and the former is very popular. I know this guy, but not sure if he's a bro here. He was the first in Sg to have a 3 chassis cd1. Amps are full Yba of course. Not sure if he bought Yba speakers too.
yp Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 This is a generalisation. Pre-power will be quieter, hence more resolving and more dynamic due to non-shared power supply and the big transformer being placed further away from the pre-amp section. But if you are looking a low power integrateds, the trade-off is less apparent. There are some very good sounding audiophile integrateds out there that out-perform pre-power at same price band and possibly higher too. Some examples are by: Lavardin, Leben, LFD, Naim, Octave and Karan. In this lot, the Karan is the highest powered at 180W If the speakers are high efficiency, can safely use a low-powered integrated and save costs and space. Hi Bro Blue Starfish, How about your take on Audia Flight?
blue_starfish Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Hi Bro Blue Starfish, How about your take on Audia Flight? Sorry, have never heard one before. It is not a popular brand here and likely to suffer from poor re-sale possibility
malsound Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I would really like to heard a ATC with one of this baby.. :P http://www.boulderamp.com/865-p1.html
Quest88 Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I have heard the Audia Flight. The integrated is quite decent, though I prefer the pre/power of course - though this costs quite a bit more. The only problem with Audia in general is that it doesn't have a lot of speed. Not sure if slew rates are an indication of this, but theirs are on the low side. Musicality and refinement are the brand's stronger points.
tane0019 Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Maybe to put discussion/comparison with examples of similar pricing range of "pre-pow" vs "int" amp. If you only have the range to spend, which one will you choose then ?? The cheapest high power pre/power combo (I think should be from Emotiva) :- XSP-1 Differential Reference Preamp + XPR 2 = US$ 2598 ExUSA. 2 x 600W into 8 Ohms. Intergraded Amp about the same pricing range that I can think of :- 1. MF M6i slightly less than S$5K. 2 x 200W into 8 Ohms. 2. Plinius 9200, I think slightly above/around the S$5K pricing range. 2 x 200W into 8 Ohms 3. NAD M3, think should be above the S$5K mark, but it come with a in-built DAC. 2 x 180W into 8 Ohms 4. W4S STI1000 about US$2500 ExUSA. 2 x 500W into 8 Ohms (don't know how much from Raindrop Audio ?) 5. Marantz PM-11S3 about S$5K+ I think. 2 x 100W into 8 Ohms 6. Audio-gd Master-10 for US$1880 ExChina. 2 x 250W into 8 Ohms 7. Krell S300i for slightly below S$3K. 2 x 150W into 8 Ohms 8. Ayre AX7e for US$2950 ExUSA. 2 x 60W into 8 Ohms 9. Hegel H100 for US$3000 ExUSA. 2 x 120W into 8 Ohms Remarks: Those stated in SG$ - I had audition before. Those in US$ are pull out from the net.
Quest88 Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Doesn't what you choose very much depend on your speakers? I mean if you really had high sensitivity speakers you can also consider some lower powered integrated, maybe a tube, not just those solid state you listed.. Solid state-wise, Parasound pre/power should also be within budget. From your list, think the Hegel is worth an audition.. Plinius and Krell are popular choices as well.
blue_starfish Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Altis 72, Your first step is to check your speaker's efficiency and lowest impedence. If it is very amplifier friendly like Living Voice, Reference 3A Da Capo or Coincident Triumph Extreme, a very good low powered integrated (ss or tubes) will give best results. Low powered integrated will usually sound better than pre/power at the same price point. Especially if you go for those known to be sweet, fast, dynamic and quiet.
tane0019 Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Doesn't what you choose very much depend on your speakers? I mean if you really had high sensitivity speakers you can also consider some lower powered integrated, maybe a tube, not just those solid state you listed.. For discussion sake (also for my learning & reference). FS Speaker 1: 2.5 way. Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) = 89dB. 8 Ohms average FS Speaker 2: 3 way. Sensitivity = 87dB 1w 1m. 6 Ohms average If use good Solid Sate or Tube Amp, what would be a good min. power (RMS) to start off as a guide ?? Solid state-wise, Parasound pre/power should also be within budget. Suppose it is JC2+A23 ??
blue_starfish Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 For discussion sake (also for my learning & reference). FS Speaker 1: 2.5 way. Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) = 89dB. 8 Ohms average FS Speaker 2: 3 way. Sensitivity = 87dB 1w 1m. 6 Ohms average If use good Solid Sate or Tube Amp, what would be a good min. power (RMS) to start off as a guide ?? Suppose it is JC2+A23 ?? Tane, Look not at average impedence, but at the lowest impedence along the full frequency curve (aka nominal impedence). This is the one that stresses the amp's ability to control the speakers. Hopefully you will not see 3 ohms or below along the line. Coming into the power equation addition to speaker efficiency will be room size, distance from speaker to listening chair and your listening volume in dB. As a rough guide, 80dB is SPL at a busy street, and 90dB SPL is factory machines at 1m distance. Normal conversation is 60dB.
tane0019 Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Like that mean that :- - if my listening distance from speaker at max is 3M away - if I normally listen level is about busy street level (ie about 80-85 dB) - a average speaker sensitivity of min 85 dB with nominal of 4 Ohms during operation (ie although spec wise can mentioned 8 Ohms). I can choose any amp rated at 100W into 4 Ohms (or 50W into 8 Ohms) RMS ?? There are quite a fair bit of amp out there that is quoting both 4 & 8 Ohms power rating openly.
tane0019 Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Wa lau ah. Write write for so long now then know your wallet can go deep deep from 6K to 12K range (suppose it is in US$ some more). Paisey Paisey.
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