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Does your AV amp or Blu Ray player handle 24/192 DTS-MA


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In this age of technology where AV amps are more akin to computers, buyers who want the best should be aware of this.

 

Not all amps pass through 24/192 from BR discs. In researching for demo music discs, I found this out.

 

For example the top of the Marantz pile AV 8003 does not, as it uses an older DSP chip. It has to down scale everything to 24/96 to cope.

Other examples are the new NAD m15hd and the Classe ssp800.

 

How about your amp?

 

Now before someone posts "oh no, how about my xxx amp?"

 

Now this is not something that affects everyone. Most BR discs don't reach that level and 24/96 is more than enough for your bog standard movie disc.''

 

Integra and most of the higher Onkyos, the Denon AVP also passes 24/192.

 

Note the Oppo BR player also is unable to process 24/192 DTS-MA.

 

Some examples of movies / discs with 24/192 DTS-MA:

 

Akira - http://au.bluray.ign.com/articles/949/949749p1.html

An insert inside the case informs consumers that 5.1 Dolby TrueHD English track was recorded in 48 kHz/16 bit sound and doesn't produce the hypersonic effect as heard in the Japanese TrueHD track in 192 kHz/24 bit audio. Basically, they're saying (and our direct comparisons confirmed it), that the original hypersonic Japanese TrueHD track simply blows the English one out of the water. Hearing to the two tracks back to back is like the difference between hearing a wild party next door and being smack-dab in the middle of that party. Just listen to the rhythmic drums that break the silence in the opening sequence. The rumbling, resonant sound will have your eardrums humming. And it only gets better from there. The bike chases will knock your socks off. The explosions will blow the roof off. The moving score blends seamlessly into the sound effects with startling directionality. Seriously, even if you're not a purist and you hate reading subtitles, do yourself a favor and listen to the original Japanese track at least once. This is as good as sound gets.

 

 

The music disc also does 24/196:

http://www.2l.no/epost/news2008may.html

 

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In this age of technology where AV amps are more akin to computers, buyers who want the best should be aware of this.

 

Not all amps pass through 24/192 from BR discs. In researching for demo music discs, I found this out.

 

For example the top of the Marantz pile AV 8003 does not, as it uses an older DSP chip. It has to down scale everything to 24/96 to cope.

Other examples are the new NAD m15hd and the Classe ssp800.

 

How about your amp?

 

Now before someone posts "oh no, how about my xxx amp?"

 

Now this is not something that affects everyone. Most BR discs don't reach that level and 24/96 is more than enough for your bog standard movie disc.''

 

Integra and most of the higher Onkyos, the Denon AVP also passes 24/192.

 

Note the Oppo BR player also is unable to process 24/192 DTS-MA.

 

Some examples of movies / discs with 24/192 DTS-MA:

 

Akira - http://au.bluray.ign.com/articles/949/949749p1.html

 

The music disc also does 24/196:

http://www.2l.no/epost/news2008may.html

 

 

The trusty old PS3 can also process 24bit/192Hz, at least the original model does.

I got the Akira blu-ray some time ago (one of the pricier blu ray on amazon), the japanese marketed it's 24bit/192Hz Japanese Dolby TrueHd track as subsonic sound or something to that effect. Believe it is the first film to incorporate 24/192 sound on bluray. 

 

 

 

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When the AVR process the 24/192, how do we know if it's really does and output it ?

 

When my AVR shows 24/192 on the LED display panel, does it really means it's processing this ?

Been playing some of my SACD and seen this flashes on the front panel on my Yammy 1065.

 

Does this mean the AVR are processing this 24/192 ?

I'm playing this SACD on my Sammy 2550 with output set to Bitstream.

Also tested it on my Toshiba A35 HD DVD player on Bitstream.

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Pete was right on the processing capability of most Blu-ray players in the market...at present, what we called HD lossless audio formats in the likes of DTS-HD HR, MSTR or Dolby TrueHD utilize either 48Khz or maximum 96Khz at 16bit...except a few titles like Akira animation for instance using 24bit/192Khz...pure audiophile sound quality! IIRC, my Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 is able to decode 24bit/192Khz...need to check it out tonite.

 

So no need to be alarmed when you try to playback a Flac file encoded in 24bit/192Khz and produces only static pink noise.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Also note, some have  24-bit/192kHz DACs, but they do not have the processing power to handle it and even though they advertise the  24-bit/192kHz DAC chips, they convert the signal to 24/96.

 

Does your Denon handle the DTS-HD Master Audio on the 2L recording in 24/192?  I have contacted Denon and they say if it is output as 24/192 the Denon will play it as 192khz.  My Panasonic BD DMP-60 plays the LPCM as 24/192 but the information screen for DTS-HD MA shows 96khz when bitstreaming or PCM from the Panasonic.

 

Can anyone verify this?

 

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If your amp is specced to handle it, then it will be your Panasonic.

 

The 4810 clearly shows the results:

Does your Denon handle the DTS-HD Master Audio on the 2L recording in 24/192?  I have contacted Denon and they say if it is output as 24/192 the Denon will play it as 192khz.  My Panasonic BD DMP-60 plays the LPCM as 24/192 but the information screen for DTS-HD MA shows 96khz when bitstreaming or PCM from the Panasonic.

 

Can anyone verify this?

 

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Mate

I did not say my 2809 does 192.

 

Have a look around our forum, see the audio section where we have a audio shootout with the Denon 4010. Make the search button your friend.

petherock

 

Your post shows a Denon AVR 2809, don't tell me I have to upgrade my reciever again for the 24 192 DTS ma format.

 

Is there a Bluray player confirmed to decode 24 192 DTS MA?

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Does your Denon handle the DTS-HD Master Audio on the 2L recording in 24/192?  I have contacted Denon and they say if it is output as 24/192 the Denon will play it as 192khz.  My Panasonic BD DMP-60 plays the LPCM as 24/192 but the information screen for DTS-HD MA shows 96khz when bitstreaming or PCM from the Panasonic.

 

Can anyone verify this?

 

 

This is one of the reason why you should do the processing on your AVR instead of your player.  You will never know what you are getting.  If your AVR / Processor is capable of 24 / 192K audio, just let it do all the processing from BR player's bitstream data .  Make it clean and simple.

 

(Audio)

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This is one of the reason why you should do the processing on your AVR instead of your player.  You will never know what you are getting.  If your AVR / Processor is capable of 24 / 192K audio, just let it do all the processing from BR player's bitstream data .   Make it clean and simple.

 

(Audio)

 

I agree....but.... :)

 

The problem here my friend is that some AVR/players can't do that for a 24/192 signal on all channels.Take my case for instance, I have a Marantz SR7002...

when my player is bitstreaming a 5.1 24/192 signal to my AVR, it will just playback only the L/R channel, but when I send an LPCM signal all is good....5.1 channel playback in 24/192.

 

So how do you catagorise my AVR then? Capable or not capable of 24/192.

1) it plays back 2 channel 24/192 signal fine

2) it can handle 24/192 LPCM on 5.1 channel fine

3) decoding a 24/192 bitstream signal from source to 5.1 channel output = failed!

 

Should I then still let the decoding be done on the AVR or let the player do it

instead for multichannel 24/192 audio?

 

The answer is not so simple no?

 

If i were to playback a 24/96 disc(or lower) than i would surely most of the time use the AVR to decode.

but for a 24/192 5.1 encoded disc than my player is the only way i could enjoy the so called better

soundtrack of a 24/192 disc less upgrading.

 

Why did i use the term ''so called'' better 24/192 sountrack?....read on....

 

Take for instance the AKIRA bluray.It has 4 different sountrack in there.One of it

is the japanese Dolby TruHD in 24 bit/192 khz and the other is the english Dolby TruHD in 16 bit/48 khz

and the japanese sountrack is suppose to sound better being marketed with hypersonic effect and all.

After doing some testing, while I did find that the 24/192 soundtrack does sound better than the english track,

it is not the night and day difference like what the IGN review stated, as posted in pete's frist post.

 

What they did not tell you is this...

the english sountrack was encoded with a dialnorm of +4

while the japanese 24/192 soundtrack is encoded with a dialnorm of +10

making it 6db louder than the english sountrack when being played thus making

viewers go 'Ooooh!!! high quality sound' when unknowingly metedata in that

soundtrack is making the AVR pump out 6db more.

 

Make it clean and simple is not as easy as it sounds no?

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Dear concept,

 

It is still clean and simple.  

 

All I said was If your AVR/ Processor is capable of 24/ 192K audio, just let it do all the processing and make it clean and simple. I didn't say ALL AVR and Processor are capable of that.

 

I am sorry to hear about your situation.  Either you got your settings wrong or your AVR is incapable of decoding bitstream 5.1 multichannel 24/192k. Then it would just be dirty and complicated as you describe it.  Right?

 

End of the day, what we want to do here is to advise all our XP friends here to let the AVR do the decoding and use your BR player as a transport.  If your AVR is not capable, then just have to take the complicated route. Not too much to ask for....right?

 

(Audio)

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End of the day, what we want to do here is to advise all our XP friends here to let the AVR do the decoding and use your BR player as a transport.  If your AVR is not capable, then just have to take the complicated route. Not too much to ask for....right?

 

(Audio)

 

How do you really know that your AVR or player is capable of 24/192 in the frist place?

1)What if your player is the culprit?

2)What if your AVR is the culprit?

Maybe both is at fault here...how would you know?

And why would advising peeps to decode on the AVR matters in this situation?

 

If on the other hand your AVR and player can already do 24/192 why do decoding on the AVR matters?

In this case whether you decode on the player or AVR it does'nt really matter now does it?

Like what you said still clean and simple no?

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Denon confirmed that my AVR 2808 will handle all bitstreamed 24/192 content.

I am trying to demo the 2L The Nordic Sound Bluray disk in the different formats offered.  LPCM 5.1 and 2.0 both play the 24/192 format confirmed by the information digital audio in screen.  The DTS MA track bitstreammed to the AVR 2808 is 24/192, but the information digital audio in screen says it is 24/96.  I contacted Morten Lindberg at 2L, and he stated that the Bluray was 100 percent, and that the DTS MA had the best quality track.

 

I am using Panasonic BD DMP60 bluray player, and the Panasonic web site says that this player will handle 24/192.  I have tried to let the Pansonic do the decoding, instead of bitstream to the Denon, but I get the same results. 

 

My question?  Has anyone succesfully played the 2L The Nordic Sound on their equipment.  I was looking for a recommendation for a BR player that will.

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Sharing my thoughts here. Recently I bought a Dell Zino HD to stream all my ripped CD's music files to my Pioneer AVR. The Zino HD came with HDMI connection and when connected to the AVR I was able to play with the properties page of the HDMI connection. As I scroll through the 5 tabs i.e. General, Supported Formats, Levels, Enhancements, and Advanced, I could select the Zino HD to output its PCM at highest possible of 24bit/192000hz sound quality.

 

I did that and was able to see my AVR display 192khz PCM displayed. I think this will be easier method to determine if your AVR can accept the 24/192 PCM. Of course you need a PC with HDMI connection.

 

Just my thoughts...... to share

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It's likely to be a result of jitter. This same topic has been discussed countless times.

 

HDMI as an audio interconnect is very prone to jitter degradation, about thousands of orders of magnitude compared to say a decent CD SPDIF interface.

 

If you are sending PCM over HDMI, the magnitude of jitter becomes IMHO noticeable if your system is resolving enough. Bitstream signals, while also affected by the same jitter, would be decoded/reclocked prior to DA conversion and the effect of jitter is minimized.

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It's likely to be a result of jitter. This same topic has been discussed countless times.

 

HDMI as an audio interconnect is very prone to jitter degradation, about thousands of orders of magnitude compared to say a decent CD SPDIF interface.

 

If you are sending PCM over HDMI, the magnitude of jitter becomes IMHO noticeable if your system is resolving enough. Bitstream signals, while also affected by the same jitter, would be decoded/reclocked prior to DA conversion and the effect of jitter is minimized.

I am using a Stello U2 to stream music, thank you for your concern. The HDMI is to illustrate the possibility of testing 24/192khz.

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if i remember correctly, certain amps display 24/192 to show that it is receiving the 24 bits depth 192khz sampling rate audio data and not playbacking it :P. you know what i mean ;D

 

Should I then still let the decoding be done on the AVR or let the player do it instead for multichannel 24/192 audio?

in electronics where low cost is paramount,  the more expensive dac in the avr as compared to the player would normally give a better sound reproduction

 

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Jitter is a whole other issue here.

That is why I'm sharing my situation here.

 

When I send bitstream 24/192 signal from my source to my AVR(SR7002) I get only the

Left and Right channels.But when LPCM is sent instead I get the whole 5.1.

 

My Marantz 7002 states it has 192 kHz/24-Bit DACs for All Channels but still cannot decode the 192/24 audio track.

So letting the source to decode instead lets me enjoy the 192/24 track.

I've check with marantz and they say that none of the Marantz's will decode 192/24 and the 002 series will not be getting any FW upgrades for this issue, although no mention of the 003 series.

 

So in my case although my AVR is said not to be able to decode 192/24 but if the player decode than

my AVR is still able to process that LPCM signal,Whether there's a lot of jitter or not does not

really matter.In my case I'm still able to enjoy the 192/24 track which is what most peeps wants to do IMHO.

Telling them to decode off AVR cause of jitter does not help now does it?

 

If in the first place your AVR and source is capable of 192/24 than it really

does not matter if you decode on the AVR or player less jitter.

What matters here is can you play that 192/24 soundtrack no?

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That is one of the main thrusts of this thread.

 

If you read the first posts, I mentioned many companies tout the 24/192 chipset, but that does not mean what you hear is actually 24/192 decoded music/soundtrack.

 

This also happened back when 24/96 was new.

 

Now as for whether 24/192 make a difference will need a test and honestly I won't lose too much sleep over that.

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