kmolth Posted December 17, 2007 Posted December 17, 2007 Guys.... need your opinion about PJ. currently using the H77 for 3 years plus and want to upgrade to 1080p. Any recommendation? :)
tsammyc Posted December 18, 2007 Posted December 18, 2007 Nice budget ;D You are around the JVC HD2, Sony VPL-VW200 (from PriceJapan) range. There is a review of the VPL-VW200 up on ultimateavmag. Definitely for HD EPL fans.
HT102 Posted December 18, 2007 Posted December 18, 2007 Nice budget ;D You are around the JVC HD2, Sony VPL-VW200 (from PriceJapan) range. There is a review of the VPL-VW200 up on ultimateavmag. Definitely for HD EPL fans. I think VW200 from Price Japan will cost >S$15k after considering shipping charges and GST.
kmolth Posted December 18, 2007 Author Posted December 18, 2007 Nice budget ;D You are around the JVC HD2, Sony VPL-VW200 (from PriceJapan) range. There is a review of the VPL-VW200 up on ultimateavmag. Definitely for HD EPL fans. JVC HD2 is the HD100? I like blacks but understand that native contrast high is not good enough ansi contrast is important. I was thinking that if a PJ can do high native it should translate to good ansi numbers. Anyone knows how the HD1 for example got for ansi contrast? I need to check out the specs for vw200..... :)
Doggie Howser Posted December 18, 2007 Posted December 18, 2007 Kris Deering's take on ANSI vs native contrast on the HD1 One of the big highlights during my time with the projector was Pirates of the Caribbean 2: Dead Man's Chest. This is a spectacular looking Blu-ray presentation from Disney and is full of murky blacks and stark contrast. The superb blacks of the JVC made the experience even better. I saw an increase in dimension in some of the darkest scenes compared to my reference DLP design, and shadow detail was outstanding. Every little detail was accounted for in both the live action and CGI effects, and the image truly had that "looking through a window" affect. Another great example was Renaissance. This is an import HD DVD that I bought from Germany that is a straight black and white animated action film. The black levels were outstanding throughout the entire presentation, and the 3-D effect of most of the film was like nothing I'd seen on HD yet. My DLP projector keeps up well with the JVC most of the film due to its high ANSI contrast levels, but the JVC was the one to beat in the really dark passages of the film. It just looks a bit better with absolute blacks. ANSI contrast uses a checkboard pattern to measure the highest and lowest levels at the same time and while this gives a good indication of real world contrast scenarios, it does not give the full story esp in predominantly dark scenes. If you can stretch your budget, I'd recommend: a. get the HD1 (prices dropped a lot now) b. get a Radiance (scalar/deinterlacer + color management system) if you are particular abt absolute reference color levels. The HD1's color gamut is large, closer to DCinema than our home formats, resulting in oversaturation of red and greens, not unlilke the plasma demos you see in most Harvey Norman/Best Denki set ups. Some people prefer this look but it isn't strictly speaking "reference" standard. I sometimes dial down color to -8 on my HD1 for some SD materials, though it doesn't seem to be an issue for most of my HD sources. Anyway, using the Radiance and calibrating it allows you to dial in the reds and greens to almost reference levels. http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=radiance_details Unfortunately it costs ard US$4k!! The other option IMHO if you aren't sensitive to rainbows and have a large enough room to throw a large distance: Optoma HD80. Best bang for the buck.Costs less than the Lumagen!!
tsammyc Posted December 18, 2007 Posted December 18, 2007 Betcha there will be a lot more 1080p projectors in 1-2 months (hint. economy doing well)
kmolth Posted December 18, 2007 Author Posted December 18, 2007 strecth abit to get the HD100... Actually I am tempted to get it but at the moment its above 10k and it need a very well control room..... hmmm....... Any good DLP with higher contrast? more then the H77 3500:1 w/o auto iris?
tsammyc Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 Actually I am tempted to get it but at the moment its above 10k and it need a very well control room..... hmmm....... Any good DLP with higher contrast? more then the H77 3500:1 w/o auto iris? Any 1080p DLP should have higher contrast than the Optoma H77. By published specs, the HD80 has 10,000 to 1 and that is published spec from the same company. ANSI checkerboard contrast should be at least double the H77 so pictures will have significantly more pop. You might not need a light tight room. From what I remember, the H77 wasn't a particularly bright projector. The HD80 with a 300W lamp is at least twice as bright. I remember someone on AVSForum saying that he measured the HD80 at around 50fl on his screen versus round 20fl for the H77. What you do need with most of the 1080p DLPs (HD80, IN82 etc) is good throw distance and ceiling mounting (on reasonably high ceilings).
c7221624705751 Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 bro u need to look over these "usual" brands... the JVC has issues on built (lens/convergence/uniformity/ANSI), the Optomas are cheap (but I dun believe u r looking at bargain at this budget) but suffer the same built/lens/color/calibration issue, the Sony's have issues on native CR (DI is never a good thing), lens, etc. The Infocus is grossly overpriced here, and the company itself is in dubious state now. At 10k budget we should look for something more worthwhile. For current models IMO you can look at: Marantz vp11s1 : excellent build/lens/ANSI. And price has come down A LOT. Within ur budget. Sim2 HT380 : excellent build/lens/ANSI/lumens. Slightly over budget but I'm never sure how Ong Radio price this. The US price is within. A bit over but worth to see if it will drop price: Sim2 HT3000e: even better lumens The sim2s are all the hype now. Especially the 3000e, a single chip PJ with close to 3 chip performance. As for the gd On/Off CR, all I can say is, the darkest image that you can see is as dark as your room. Based on that you can judge which one is more important for you, On/Off or ANSI
tsammyc Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 This is a personal opinion, but I don't really see the reason to pay $10,000 for a projector even when you can afford it because the incremental differences from a $5,000 projector are not easy to notice. There is always the temptation to get the most awesome thing out there at any price, but something better usually comes along in 6 months and the device is obsolete in a year and you feel like changing it. Even the just arriving 1080p LCDs will be an amazing improvement over a H77.
Genesis Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 This is a personal opinion, but I don't really see the reason to pay $10,000 for a projector even when you can afford it because the incremental differences from a $5,000 projector are not easy to notice. There is always the temptation to get the most awesome thing out there at any price, but something better usually comes along in 6 months and the device is obsolete in a year and you feel like changing it. Even the just arriving 1080p LCDs will be an amazing improvement over a H77. Ya, but so be it. That's the nature of this business. I buy a $10k projector now and in 6 months (or more) I want to upgrade to a higher contrast unit that has gamma adjustments. The projector price is not the concern, it's the ultimate delivery in my HT and satisfaction with the capability of the unit. The thing is, I can upgrade to a better projector and therefore not have to spend $6k on a lumagen radiance. Right?
tsammyc Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 Lumagen radiance brings up another issue. The processors in 1080p projectors are mostly extremely good. This wasn't the issue in just the previous generation. Pixelworks DNX seems to be good to excellent in all HQV tests now and seems as free from noise as anything from SI. I just read that the VPL-VW200 is good to excellent in HQV as well so even Sony's offerings should have good processing from now on. Sure a Lumagen or Anchor Bay processor will give you more tweaks, but the issue of video processing, particularly 480i-1080p and 1080i-1080p can be considered "largely solved" at the end of 2007.
kmolth Posted December 20, 2007 Author Posted December 20, 2007 I always think the Marantz is really expensive, you guys sure it can be gotten for less then 10k now? I need to be careful in selecting as I paid 9.5k 3 years back and now I am upgrading. I am tempted to get the HD100 or Marantz or Sony or even the Optoma which ever is good. I have a universal ceiling mount holding the H77 which can be very flexible in taking up new PJ. The only issue was when I install the H77 then, i offset the mount 4" to the left since the PJ lens is in the right (looking into lens upside down the PJ). I can't use PJ with lens on the left the offset will be too much. Centre I think is possible be offset the mount abit which could safe 1-2". I think there is 2 new PJ's coming, one is HD100 and the other sony VW200. Between HD100, VW200 and Marantz VP11 which is better,any opinion if given only choices? Why is the Marantz VP15 list price cheaper then VP11 in USA website with higher constrast? Is it available in Singapore guys? Thanks.
blackburn Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 This is a personal opinion, but I don't really see the reason to pay $10,000 for a projector even when you can afford it because the incremental differences from a $5,000 projector are not easy to notice i agree too that the difference among the current crop of 1080p projectors is only noticeable to the keenest eyes bar the hd100. Actually I am tempted to get it but at the moment its above 10k and it need a very well control room..... hmmm.......Any good DLP with higher contrast? more then the H77 3500:1 w/o auto iris? do consider the mitsubishi hc4900. though it has the least black levels among the current crop of 1080p projectors, but at least it is comparable to most dlp projectors using the darkchip2 (eg the h77), and better than almost any 720p lcd projector. selling now at projectorusa.com for around us$1500 after us$500 rebate (not sure if applicable to us). this will definitely tide you over till the next wave of cheaper and better 1080p projectors are launched.
zermat Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 Was told today that authorised dealer, Granvision Electronics at the Adelphi is offering the Marantz upgraded HDMI 1.3 VP-11S1 brandnew with local warranty for below S$10K. What is happening to this industry these days ? !
tsammyc Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 Exactly my point earlier. The VP11S1 was sold for $25K just over a year ago and now its under $10K. Depreciates faster than my car ::) This is mainly because the VP15S1 is better (much brighter) and was launched at $13-15K.
kmolth Posted December 20, 2007 Author Posted December 20, 2007 Exactly my point earlier. The VP11S1 was sold for $25K just over a year ago and now its under $10K. Depreciates faster than my car ::) This is mainly because the VP15S1 is better (much brighter) and was launched at $13-15K. How does the picture compare with HD1? What to do with my H77 guys? Damn 3 years + with low hours.... :-[ What do u guys do with your old PJ? Always have ready buyer?
c7221624705751 Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 This is mainly because the VP15S1 is better (much brighter) and was launched at $13-15K. no lah the vp15 has an inferior color wheel which has more dithering (very obvious if u walk up to the screen). the vp15 is supposed to be a lesser vp11 at half the price. Even in US now u can't find a vp11 at this price. A rare situation (where SG price is better than US). btw at ur depreciation analogy, now it's the best time to buy since the subsequent depreciation will be very small. ;D
c7221624705751 Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 btw look out for the Benq W5000. 1st DLP with a dynamic iris. and should be very cheap too.
blackburn Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 no lah the vp15 has an inferior color wheel which has more dithering (very obvious if u walk up to the screen). the vp15 is supposed to be a lesser vp11 at half the price if i am not wrong, they are both exactly the same except for the slower colour wheel at 5x speed, the vp15 also accepts hdmi 1.3 and outputs 1080p/24. included here are some eye candy
tsammyc Posted December 21, 2007 Posted December 21, 2007 I can't imagine anyone paying more for the VP11S1 just to get a 6x wheel (even the Optoma HD80 has one). So the price cut was inevitable. Talking about HD80 vs VP15S1, its an interesting comparison because the Marantz is 3x the price of the Optoma but has similar internals (TI 0.95 DLP chip and 300W+ OHP bulb). However, in this case for many the premium is justified, by brand, contrast (DC3 vs the luck of the draw), Konica lens, better zoom, shorter throw, more accurate colours, lens shift, better warranty and Gennum processing (recent advances in DNX have however rendered that lead slim). I've found that with projectors is as you go up in features, the price goes up geometrically.
kmolth Posted December 21, 2007 Author Posted December 21, 2007 Looking through the specs of the VP11, the contrast ration seem "pretty low" at 6500:1 or did I mis-interpreted? I know the HD1 is still selling at pretty expensive aroun 8.5k (from local dealer) and 6.5k from pricejapan. Does anyone know roughly how much the VP11 cost? I don't mind paying a bit more for marantz as I think I can do away with the video processor right? The internal VXP seem to be very good right? Given a choice of Marantz vs HD100 vs HD1 vs HC6000 vs HD80, which would you guys buy if given dollars is not a consideration just pure performance picture quality, dark scene etc.? Sorry for so much questions..... hmmm tought choice to buy...... or should I wait a little longer? ???
c7221624705751 Posted December 21, 2007 Posted December 21, 2007 if i am not wrong, they are both exactly the same except for the slower colour wheel at 5x speed, no the biggest diff is, vp11 has a 7segment wheel, vp15 has 6 segment. The 7th segment is for the dark green to help to reduce the low level dithering. This is significant if u walk up to the screen. as for the CR, WSR measured almost the same CR for both. IMO at this price if u were to compare to HD1, there is no comparism. Imagine even a woofer can shake the lens of HD1. And LCDs are really far behind both of the JVC/Marantz. Had JVC been priced the same as in the US, it will be the best buy. But it's not.
tsammyc Posted December 21, 2007 Posted December 21, 2007 Given a choice of Marantz vs HD100 vs HD1 vs HC6000 vs HD80, which would you guys buy if given dollars is not a consideration just pure performance picture quality, dark scene etc.? I think I would try the HD100. Given the $$ that you are going to spend, I think you better take a look see at well calibrated installations to make sure your money is being spent wisely.
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