Auditioned Onkyo 875 against Yamaha 1800 today

[tsammyc]

Went down to KEC this afternoon with a friend to A/B the two receivers. Started with 2 channel Pure Direct mode on both players to judge the quality of the amplification. First, we played a couple of tracks of male and female vocals on the Onkyo. Then we swapped the cables into the Yamaha played the same tracks. We also tried a CD that I have listened to countless times - Best Audiophile Voices 1. Source was a Cyrus CD player (circa $1,500) hooked up via analog cables to the CD input of both receivers. Speakers were B&W Matrix 805 ($4,500 a pair). In Pure Direct mode everthing (including video circuits) are switched off.

 

All three of us (me, my friend [an audiophile with a good ear and lots of nice equipment in his home like a $10,000 CD player], and the salesman) agreed that the Yamaha was clearly better than the Onkyo. The mid range of the 875 was just muddled in comparison. I wouldn't say the 875 was terrible, but when A/B'ed there was no comparison IMHO.

 

Hooked up a PS3 via HDMI to A/B some multichannel PCM (KEC didn't have a bitstream Blu Ray player) of Casino Royale. Frankly, it was quite difficult for me to distinguish between the two and the receivers were uncalibrated so I couldn't tell which was better.

 

I have now eliminated the 875 from my list of possibilities as I do use the system for 2 channel listening. I know this post may be controversial because there are quite a few Onkyo owners here, but opinons on SQ are subjective and I wouldn't be surprised if others have the opposite view after listening to the same equipment. In any case, KEC now has the Yammy 1800 sitting on top of the Onkyo 875 so its a simple matter for one to go down to A/B the two with your favourite CD. I'd be interested in your view.

 

The 875 is $1,950, while the 1800 is $1,800

[alfajuliet]

have a 1800 at home , onkyo SQ dont even come close. beside internal components, you will find that 1800 receiver have better circuitry design, in relation to stereo listening.

 

specs are still specs, but when you compare design ,  marantz and yamaha comes out top in terms of SQ produced.

 

y1800 @ $1800 ? not really gd price. Can get cheaper elsewhere.

 

my opinion

 

-alpha

[petetherock]

Good job Sam, nice to hear someone write about the sound quality of the new gen 1.3 HDMI amps.

 

I know the Diamonds you have are not too sensitive, so do have a look at the bigger brother of the 1800 too, esp since you have a big loft..

[Phil1624705739]

Suggest you try playing CD through the Onkyo's DAC. I did A/B comparison between analog and digital inputs and found the latter produces better clarity.

 

In addition, the 875 main strength is never stereo taking into consideration the extra THX Ultra 2 post-processing available compared to Select 2.

 

Phil

[tsammyc]

Suggest you try playing CD through the Onkyo's DAC. I did A/B comparison between analog and digital inputs and found the latter produces better clarity.

 

In addition, the 875 main strength is never stereo taking into consideration the extra THX Ultra 2 post-processing available compared to Select 2.

 

Actually we did that passing 2-channel PCM from the same CD in the PS3 over HDMI to the Onkyo. It was worse than the Cyrus CD player connected via analog outputs to the Onklyo. Made me wonder about the PS3 because I have good results at home using the PS3 as a SACD (but not CD) player. Were you using a good CD player when you did the A/B comparison?

 

Agreed that the 875 has fantastic features: Ultra 2, REON etc and I really wanted to like it because I can get all those features for just a few more $ than the 1800. I actually went to KEC mainly to make sure that I coiuld live with the surround processing on the Onkyo (which is fine), but I didn't expect such a difference in 2-channel sound compared to the 1800. Its possible that KEC has a bad 875 or the cables got swapped or something, so I'm hoping someone else will go down for the A/B that I did and confirm or reject my results.

[FookLai]

I have now eliminated the 875 from my list of possibilities as I do use the system for 2 channel listening. I know this post may be controversial because there are quite a few Onkyo owners here, but opinons on SQ are subjective and I wouldn't be surprised if others have the opposite view after listening to the same equipment. In any case, KEC now has the Yammy 1800 sitting on top of the Onkyo 875 so its a simple matter for one to go down to A/B the two with your favourite CD. I'd be interested in your view.

 

Actually IMHO there is nothing controversial, There are people jumping from Yamaha 2700 to Onkyo 875, there is people prefer Yamaha to Onkyo. End of days everyone taste different, if you prefer Yammy 1800, by all mean go for it :) If audio preference is so easy to be the same then there should be only one company one model in certain price range, if everyone's taste the same, given same price, people will just get that model.

 

Btw Sam, if music is your preference why not try Marantz 8200 also? Since it is selling at 1800 according to Patrick of KEC and knowing Marantz are great for music, you probably wont disappoint with it :) Also try out the Denon 3808  ;)

 

Fook Lai

[tsammyc]

I suspect the jump to Onkyo by many folks here from all sorts of brands wasn't due to auditioning 2-channel audio, but due to the fact that it was the only HDMI 1.3a receiver available for many months. There simply wasn't a choice. Now that there are, we can be a bit more critical.

 

I listen to 2-channel music on my HT system because I don't want to set up a seperate system, but my main use is clearly HT (like 80%). I didn't audition the Denon and the Marantz because my previous experience finds them great for 2-channel audio but somehow the DSP processing lacked punch IMHO compared to the Pioneer, Yamana and Onkyos. If anyone has heard them and thinks that the HT processing improved significantly with the latest HDMI 1.3 receivers, let me know. Yamaha's used to be useless for 2-channel audio as they were far too bright, but that changed with the 1500.

[HT102]

Sam, did you audition the Onkyo 905? KEC should have a silver one placed right beside the 875. In fact they just received a couple of new black 905.. one of them is mine.. hee hee. You should also try them with the 800 series B&Ws.. I did and kenna poison deep deep.  ;D

 

[ALERT1624705860]

I suspect the jump to Onkyo by many folks here from all sorts of brands wasn't due to auditioning 2-channel audio, but due to the fact that it was the only HDMI 1.3a receiver available for many months. There simply wasn't a choice. Now that there are, we can be a bit more critical.

 

I felt the same too. Onkyo was the only choice a few months back.

 

I listen to 2-channel music on my HT system because I don't want to set up a seperate system, but my main use is clearly HT (like 80%). I didn't audition the Denon and the Marantz because my previous experience finds them great for 2-channel audio but somehow the DSP processing lacked punch IMHO compared to the Pioneer, Yamana and Onkyos. If anyone has heard them and thinks that the HT processing improved significantly with the latest HDMI 1.3 receivers, let me know. Yamaha's used to be useless for 2-channel audio as they were far too bright, but that changed with the 1500.

 

Hey Sam, I seldom hear people mentioning about Pioneer in this forum, so far you're the only one who commented about Pioneer. I'm still looking for a receiver mainly for HT (say 90%) and Live concert DVDs. I've shortlisted Pioneer LX60, Denon 3808 and Yamaha 3800. Trying to decide which would be a better choice base on my needs.

 

Have you auditioned or planned to auditioned the  new Pioneer receivers?

 

Before I go audition these receivers, would like to hear your opinion.

[HT102]

but I didn't expect such a difference in 2-channel sound compared to the 1800. Its possible that KEC has a bad 875 or the cables got swapped or something, so I'm hoping someone else will go down for the A/B that I did and confirm or reject my results.

 

I had A/B-ed 875 and 905 twice, using the same disc and the results were different. In the final audition, I distinctly noticed the extended treble, details and particularly sibilance in the vocals the 905 have over the 875. I suspected during the earlier attempt, the speaker cables were connected out-of-phase which happened in the 2nd try but fortunately Clarence uncovered the issue in time.

 

[tsammyc]

Sam, did you audition the Onkyo 905? KEC should have a silver one placed right beside the 875. In fact they just received a couple of new black 905.. one of them is mine.. hee hee. You should also try them with the 800 series B&Ws.. I did and kenna poison deep deep.  ;D

 

No, I didn't as it was out of my price range, but perhaps I should have. I was actually quite amazed with the fact that a bookshelf speaker can sound so good... but they are $4,500

[tsammyc]

IHey Sam, I seldom hear people mentioning about Pioneer in this forum, so far you're the only one who commented about Pioneer. I'm still looking for a receiver mainly for HT (say 90%) and Live concert DVDs. I've shortlisted Pioneer LX60, Denon 3808 and Yamaha 3800. Trying to decide which would be a better choice base on my needs.

 

Have you auditioned or planned to auditioned the  new Pioneer receivers?

 

I did wander over to the Pioneer shop next to KEC where there was a very good salesman who spent quite a long time showing me the VSX-LX70 . I had a series of Pioneer HT receivers from 1985-2002 so I have liked them in the past. However, it was much more difficult to compare as the speakers were different even though they were very high end (and huge) Pioneer speakers with ribbon tweeters. The source was the LX70 Blu Ray player which probably isn't that good on CDs and it was connected via HDMI rather than analog with the Cyrus at KEC. The LX07 sounded pretty good for HIT. We watched a few Blu Ray demo clips on DTS-HD MA, which it up nicely on the receiver and had plenty of punch.

 

For testing 2-channel stereo, the salesman was unable to put it into pure direct mode. Possibly the LX70 doesn't have one. When he turned off all the processing, female vocals didn't sound very good. He realised that as well and fiddled with the parametric equaliser until there was a pretty good result. However, I can't really determine for certain how good the straight two channel amplification is. He did have a LX608 Kuro on the wall and that was one amazing piece of equipment. Everyone should go and take a look at it.

[tsammyc]

I had A/B-ed 875 and 905 twice, using the same disc and the results were different. In the final audition, I distinctly noticed the extended treble, details and particularly sibilance in the vocals the 905 have over the 875. I suspected during the earlier attempt, the speaker cables were connected out-of-phase which happened in the 2nd try but fortunately Clarence uncovered the issue in time.

 

That thought had crossed my mind so I was hoping that someone else would go down and listen to check my results.

[DizzyD1624705734]

hi

 

Sorry to hijack this thread. In terms of other choices, what does the community feel about denon 3808? This is highly rated in HK and it is also slimmer than 875.

 

Thanks

[FookLai]

Actually we did that passing 2-channel PCM from the same CD in the PS3 over HDMI to the Onkyo. It was worse than the Cyrus CD player connected via analog outputs to the Onklyo. Made me wonder about the PS3 because I have good results at home using the PS3 as a SACD (but not CD) player. Were you using a good CD player when you did the A/B comparison?

 

Btw, Sam, you will be using Cyrus as your CD sources at home? If not, I think you should try it with your practical situation, PS3 or Samsung BD-P1400, chance are the DACs inside the Yamaha and Onkyo will be better than the PS3 and Samsung. I think that's one of the reason why Phil suggest you to use digital connection to compare.

 

Unless you will have dedicated CD player then that is different story. If not, when you heading home with the new receiver then found at home that playing PS3 with new receiver using digital connection yielding better result, you might not know originally which receiver can give better sound through digital channel. Onkyo suppose to use one of the better DACs around inside its receiver, it would not only help to decode 2 channel sounds, but also apply to 5.1/6.1/7.1 normal DD/DTS Bitstream, HD Bitstream and Multi PCM. There is no doubt that the DAC inside AV Receiver cant compare to those dedicated CD player but should sufficiently beat DVD player. Anyway, Yamaha might still sound better for you in digital connection, who knows?  ;D ;D ;D

 

Fook Lai

[tsammyc]

I agree, but I thought that getting a better amp fundamentally will help me in the future if I upgrade to say a cheaper-than-Cyrus Marantz CD player or change my speakers. In fact Pete also pointed out that my current Diamonds will probably not be able to resolve to the same level as the B&Ws anyway. As the receiver will be replacing the Yamaha 1500 in my study, CDs and SACDs will be played via a Pioneer 969 Universal Player over belden analog interconnects. Hardly a Cyrus with expensive cables, but the 969 has pretty good DACs as well and is generally regarded as decent CD player.  I have A/B the digital versus analong connection on the 969 to 1500 and the analog is much sweeter than digital.

 

For some reason I get good results with the PS3 on 24/192Khz SACD to my Yamaha 2700 in the hall to the KEF/dual SVS combo so I was surprised why CD didn't sound good on the PS3 to Onkyo or 1800. I haven't actually tried a CD in the PS3 in my hall because when I listen to a CD, I tend to pop it into the Oppo. I don't use the Oppo for SACD because its limited to 24/96 Khz

[Doggie Howser]

I too bought the 875 (sold my 2700 Yamaha) for the same reasons:

- upscaling (tho that isn't used as much now becos of SCV's f**ked up HDMI implementation but I still use it for my old Shinco DVD player for the odd DVDs I still pick up on bargains)

- HDMI 1.3 (only one at that time)

 

But then I don't listen much to music. Mine is virtually 99.999% HT.

 

On the few occasions I do listen, I found that after applying Audyssey MultiEQ, the sound coming out from my old B&W 601S2s were abt the same in Stereo mode for both amps.

 

I do find Pure Audio on the Yamaha to sound better than Pure Audio on the Onkyo 875 but I prefer Stereo because it utilizes the sub since my 601S2s aren't the last word in bass reproduction.

 

 

 

[cn9601]

previously, the hype of 875 got me to audition 875 and Denon 3808. in fact, at that time without intention (or budget) to upgrade my good-old Yammy 975.

 

IMO 875 does provide the realism and somehow allow me to be more 'involved' in the movie. I had made my decision on the very moment LOTR was played.

 

But I nvr like CD sound by AVR. Still prefer to listen CD on stereo system. Have heard Cyrus played thru Onkyo, Yammy, Denon....still prefer CDP with Stereo Amp.

 

Nevertheless, my friend has just confirmed Cyrus 6 CDP to match with 875  8)

 

I waitin for the impulse to match 875 wif B&W 683  ;D

 

 

[petetherock]

Francis woo has the Pioneer so you can ask him to let you demo

His speakers are pretty nice NHTs.

 

IMO if an amp does well in stereo, the AV side should be fine.

 

IF a component crams a lot into a chassis and offers many features, see if you really need them or how well stereo is implemented.

 

I am biased towards Marantz, and since you don't need the video processing Sam, why not check out the Marantz 8002, which has 4 in 2 out for HDMI. Around the same price band too

[Jason Tee]

I am also trying to make a decision between Marantz 8002 and Onkyo 875. I will go down to KEC to compare the two.

But in my mind, I am more inclined towards Marantz and just would like to heard how Onkyo 875 fair in terms of HT and Music as compare to marantz 8002 as I heard a lot of positive review on the onkyo 875.

[FookLai]

I am also trying to make a decision between Marantz 8002 and Onkyo 875. I will go down to KEC to compare the two.

But in my mind, I am more inclined towards Marantz and just would like to heard how Onkyo 875 fair in terms of HT and Music as compare to marantz 8002 as I heard a lot of positive review on the onkyo 875.

 

Great, let us know the result. Traditionally Marantz great for music, ok for movie; Onkyo great for Movie, ok for Music. I dont know how KEC calibrate both set, if he use auto calibration then chances are for Onkyo you need to crank up 5-6db higher than marantz to yield same volume level.

 

Fook Lai

[Guest francis woo]

Bros, open house this saturday from 2 pm onwards.  You are all welcome to audition the Pioneer and same time tweak it for me.... :D  Warn you though, if you listen to my stereo set up, you won't consider any AVRs for stereo listening!!!

[petetherock]

I agree F Woo has a  serious stereo, sorry bro in Meleka :)

 

Bros, open house this saturday from 2 pm onwards.  You are all welcome to audition the Pioneer and same time tweak it for me.... :D  Warn you though, if you listen to my stereo set up, you won't consider any AVRs for stereo listening!!!

[TubeBoy]

Bros, open house this saturday from 2 pm onwards.  You are all welcome to audition the Pioneer and same time tweak it for me.... :D  Warn you though, if you listen to my stereo set up, you won't consider any AVRs for stereo listening!!!

 

Wow....what stereo set up you using?  If you don't mind sharing?

[Phil1624705739]

Sam, you are welcome to drop by my place to listen to my Onkyo 875 + Rotel RCD-961 pair to get a sample of the former's stereo performance.

 

Actually, I think it's quite ok at pure audio mode playing through my Mission towers.

 

Phil