AgentVX Posted December 1, 2007 Posted December 1, 2007 *long post - skip to last paragraph for a condensed version of what I'm asking/rambling about* Hi guys, have been using this forum to do research for my planned purchase of a pair of speakers. Found lots of great info so far, but it feels like I get more enlightened and more confused at the same time :P Bit of background...I have been using good headphones for >1 year already so I think I have a pretty good idea of what to listen for and the type of sound I want. Speakers will be paired with a vintage Nikko 15Wpc integrated amp which I currently use for my headphones (Grado SR-60 - very nice synergy) and used in a 3x3m bedroom. Source is my PC soundcard (Chaintech AV-710, Wolfson DAC). My listening habits...low-moderate volume (I found myself turning down the volume in every shop I listened at yesterday), 90% of my collection is rock and metal. Basically I'm looking for speakers that complement my headphone listening, ie. good bass impact and soundstage (although even the cheapo Panasonic bookshelves that I have plugged in to my amp now have better soundstage than my headphones). So here's my experience at the Adelphi yesterday...first I went to Asia Sound where I auditioned the Paradigm Atoms, and then the JM Labs Chorus 706 (?). Atoms: Not bad, but I felt the bass was a bit "hollow" JMLabs: Significant improvement in trasnparency and refinement. Vocals sounded much better. Then again, it is quite a bit more expensive. After that I went into Audio Basic to try out the much-hyped Usher S-520. Found it rather bright - very detailed, no doubt. You could almost hear the drumsticks contacting with the cymbals instead of just hearing the sound of the cymbal crash. But it didn't sound like what I was looking for, and in particular the kick drum faded into the background once the layers of vocals/guitar/etc started to come in. Had a nice chat with Steven though; great guy, just like what you all said. He mentioned a few things which got me thinking: 1. bass quantity can be increased by positioning the speakers closer to the wall 2. to match the sound quality of my headphones, he reckons I need to spend a few thousand :-\ 3. for my preferences, perhaps I should be considering floorstanders instead Anyway, before I left Adelphi I also poppped into the Monitor Audio dealer on the ground floor to try out the BR2 which was on offer @ $450. Here I found the bass response which was closest to what I was looking for, although to my ears the reproduction of electric guitar sounded a bit weird, almost shrieking at times (guitar licks in "Hotel California" studio version). I wonder, though, if this has to do with the setup - the salesman simply plonked them on top of another pair of bookshelves, my ear level was at the woofer instead of the tweeter (does this make a lot of difference?), and I noticed that the wall behind the speakers went all the way up to the ceiling and was padded, unlike any of the other shops I went to. So after that I went over to Gramophone in Capitol Centre and realised that the Klipsch floorstanders they have there...sounded more favourable to me than any of the speakers I had just auditioned :P (Paradigm Atoms, JM Labs Chorus 706, Usher S520 and Monitor Audio BR2, for the benefit of those who skipped straight to this para). Here's where I need some advice from you guys...should I be looking at a pair of floorstanders instead? Is it safe to say that, in general, even the low end ones have a "fuller" bass than $400-600 bookshelves on stands? Or can a pair of bookshelves be positioned to significantly increase the quantity of bass? Lastly, my budget is flexible but the total amount has to be 3 digits (incl stands for bookshelves)...what other good bookshelves should I try in this price range, or are there already some very competent floorstanders that I can get? Thanks in advance for reading and for any advice offered.
synthesis1624705793 Posted December 1, 2007 Posted December 1, 2007 If you think Chorus 706 is good, you better get this one ;) http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=49758.0 Pair this with a subwoofer and you have a winning combo. Sorry, need to be a salesman sometimes :D
benzx Posted December 1, 2007 Posted December 1, 2007 If you think Chorus 706 is good, you better get this one ;) http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=49758.0 Pair this with a subwoofer and you have a winning combo. Sorry, need to be a salesman sometimes :D The cobalt is definitely more refined sounding than the chorus 706. Especially when you play vocal tracks. From the pics, synthesis's pair really look as gd as new man.
spells Posted December 1, 2007 Posted December 1, 2007 Swee the speakers, wah liao i also looking for a pair, so sad i can not afford man even i sell off my cyrus two + MP5 also cannot afford :'( so envy synthesis have such fabulous spks :P
bkling Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 Owned Chorus and Cobalt before for my HT setup. Both are good and efficient speaker and should fit in well for stereo setup in 3X3 room. Mind you that a lot of bookshelves speaker quite difficult to drive to sound good.. Positioning of speakers is very important in stereo setup in order to get the right sound. With additional of Sub-W will make the conbination much much more difficult to setup. You basically have to keep on trying. One more item also quite important is the speaker stand. A pair of decent speaker stands will already cost you couple hundred. So if I were u, I will stretch my budget slightly and go for 2nd Hand. Do serach in Echoloft forum for Buy/Sell thread OK, just to add my 2 cents, a pair of sepaker which costs a few thousands $ is quite difficult to match a good headphone. For example, I am quite confident to tell you that I have not listened to any sub 10K setup can produce sound quality of AKG K701 pair with decent amp such as Diva Headphone Amp. (Just to make clear, I am not related in any way with AKG or/and Diva). They are simply no match and not even come near to the headphone quality..
2100 Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 Headphones also have the advantage of having no room effect and crossovers to much up the sound, and very importantly to take away the dynamic contrast. I was VERY surprised how much dynamic contrast and power compression the lower powered audiophile speaker drivers + crossover take away, when they hear stuff like fullrangers or the high powered or prosound based drivers. The audiophiles may do well in the microdynamic dept, but not the macrodynamics. Some music need that dynamic snap to get the musical meaning across.
2100 Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 But then of course, if your music preference is always the usual audiophile type slow slow stuff at soft volumes, then no worries on this lar. ;D
annapurna Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 *long post - skip to last paragraph for a condensed version of what I'm asking/rambling about* Hi guys, have been using this forum to do research for my planned purchase of a pair of speakers. Found lots of great info so far, but it feels like I get more enlightened and more confused at the same time :P Bit of background...I have been using good headphones for >1 year already so I think I have a pretty good idea of what to listen for and the type of sound I want. Speakers will be paired with a vintage Nikko 15Wpc integrated amp which I currently use for my headphones (Grado SR-60 - very nice synergy) and used in a 3x3m bedroom. Source is my PC soundcard (Chaintech AV-710, Wolfson DAC). My listening habits...low-moderate volume (I found myself turning down the volume in every shop I listened at yesterday), 90% of my collection is rock and metal. Basically I'm looking for speakers that complement my headphone listening, ie. good bass impact and soundstage (although even the cheapo Panasonic bookshelves that I have plugged in to my amp now have better soundstage than my headphones). So here's my experience at the Adelphi yesterday...first I went to Asia Sound where I auditioned the Paradigm Atoms, and then the JM Labs Chorus 706 (?). Atoms: Not bad, but I felt the bass was a bit "hollow" JMLabs: Significant improvement in trasnparency and refinement. Vocals sounded much better. Then again, it is quite a bit more expensive. After that I went into Audio Basic to try out the much-hyped Usher S-520. Found it rather bright - very detailed, no doubt. You could almost hear the drumsticks contacting with the cymbals instead of just hearing the sound of the cymbal crash. But it didn't sound like what I was looking for, and in particular the kick drum faded into the background once the layers of vocals/guitar/etc started to come in. Had a nice chat with Steven though; great guy, just like what you all said. He mentioned a few things which got me thinking: 1. bass quantity can be increased by positioning the speakers closer to the wall 2. to match the sound quality of my headphones, he reckons I need to spend a few thousand :-\ 3. for my preferences, perhaps I should be considering floorstanders instead Anyway, before I left Adelphi I also poppped into the Monitor Audio dealer on the ground floor to try out the BR2 which was on offer @ $450. Here I found the bass response which was closest to what I was looking for, although to my ears the reproduction of electric guitar sounded a bit weird, almost shrieking at times (guitar licks in "Hotel California" studio version). I wonder, though, if this has to do with the setup - the salesman simply plonked them on top of another pair of bookshelves, my ear level was at the woofer instead of the tweeter (does this make a lot of difference?), and I noticed that the wall behind the speakers went all the way up to the ceiling and was padded, unlike any of the other shops I went to. So after that I went over to Gramophone in Capitol Centre and realised that the Klipsch floorstanders they have there...sounded more favourable to me than any of the speakers I had just auditioned :P (Paradigm Atoms, JM Labs Chorus 706, Usher S520 and Monitor Audio BR2, for the benefit of those who skipped straight to this para). Here's where I need some advice from you guys...should I be looking at a pair of floorstanders instead? Is it safe to say that, in general, even the low end ones have a "fuller" bass than $400-600 bookshelves on stands? Or can a pair of bookshelves be positioned to significantly increase the quantity of bass? Lastly, my budget is flexible but the total amount has to be 3 digits (incl stands for bookshelves)...what other good bookshelves should I try in this price range, or are there already some very competent floorstanders that I can get? Thanks in advance for reading and for any advice offered. Hi, let me try my best based on my personal experience to answer your questions : "should I be looking at a pair of floorstanders instead? Is it safe to say that, in general, even the low end ones have a "fuller" bass than $400-600 bookshelves on stands? Or can a pair of bookshelves be positioned to significantly increase the quantity of bass?" Floorstanders generally have more bass than bookshelves but not all of them produce quality bass although they can be more in quantity. You can increase the quantity of bass of bookshelves thru positioning in the room - if you move them nearer to corner or even nearer to the back wall, you get more bass but other spectrum of the sound may suffer, you may suffer from less depth, poorer imaging and boomier bass. A good pair of speaker rigid stands with the correct height can improve bass too. For a small room like yours, you have to watch out for boomy bass with floorstanders. I have a small room like yours and using a very large pair JM Lab floorstanders and I've to treat my room extensively to control the bass. If you get excess bass, it will affect the midrange and high frequency. "Lastly, my budget is flexible but the total amount has to be 3 digits (incl stands for bookshelves)...what other good bookshelves should I try in this price range, or are there already some very competent floorstanders that I can get?" Good bookshelves that I've heard and tried include Monitor Audio, JM Lab, Sonus Faber, Wilson Benesch, Rogers, ProAcs, B&W, JBL that you have mentioned and many others. I would single out Monitor Audio and JM Lab as both of them are fairly easy to drive with low to moderate powered amps and their bass is not too much for small rooms so it is easier for you to position it. Remember to allocate some of your budget for good speaker cables as they do affect the sound signficantly.
AgentVX Posted December 5, 2007 Author Posted December 5, 2007 Hey thanks for the replies everyone. I will look into it more, maybe try and audition some floorstanders (and bookshelves too) outside of the showroom to get a better idea.
Quest88 Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 my 2 cents.. i own a pair of jmlab floorstanders which performs very well but shifted room with limited length. my experience found that the 2 - 3m length i have is not enuf space for the speakers to breathe.. some forumer mentioned something abt the phase. i did not have trouble with bass like annapurna, but the sound just sounded off to my ears. unfortunately i do not have much luxury of room treatment cos of my other fittings (bookshelf, painting, TV). anyway, in the end i got a pair of bookshelves now and find the resolution and imaging much better. i do not find a loss of bass, although there is some rolloff at 50hz.. but thats to be expected. anyway i have a subwoofer to complement. so really, decide on what fits your room first, then start shopping from there.
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