Hearing loss - A note of Sanity

[petetherock]

Friends

I recently had some friends over and I was asked to press on to turn it up. I note our brothers here listen at almost single digit settings on their amps.A lot of new amps with serious power are now being procured and THX Ultra is the current flavor of the month, and SVS subs rule the forum. These are all potential dangers.

 

Without being there, I cannot comment on the exact conditions we are hearing, but it may be pertinent to reflect on this.

 

Most of us still have decent hearing and we should aim to have a lifetime of this to enjoy our wonderful purchases.

 

But let me introduce some notes on NIHL - Noise Induced Hearing Loss

 

Sound pressure is measured in decibels (dB). Like a temperature scale, the decibel scale goes below zero. The average person can hear sounds down to about 0 dB, the level of rustling leaves. Some people with very good hearing can hear sounds down to -15 dB. [glow=red,2,300]If a sound reaches 85 dB or stronger, it can cause permanent damage to your hearing. [/glow] The amount of time you listen to a sound affects how much damage it will cause. The quieter the sound, the longer you can listen to it safely. If the sound is very quiet, it will not cause damage even if you listen to it for a very long time; however, exposure to some common sounds can cause permanent damage. With extended exposure, noises that reach a decibel level of 85 can cause permanent damage to the hair cells in the inner ear, leading to hearing loss. Many common sounds may be louder than you think…

 

A typical conversation occurs at 60 dB - not loud enough to cause damage.

A bulldozer that is idling (note that this is idling, not actively bulldozing) is loud enough at 85 dB that it can cause permanent damage after only 1 work day (8 hours).

When listening to music on earphones at a standard volume level 5, the sound generated reaches a level of 100 dB, loud enough to cause permanent damage after just 15 minutes per day!

A clap of thunder from a nearby storm (120 dB) or a gunshot (140-190 dB, depending on weapon), can both cause immediate damage.

 

For example, at -25db on my amp, I measured -80db on average and much higher during explosions on a recent DVD, so thats very high already at such a modest setting.

 

Lets aim to keep our ears working well for a long time more!

 

My 2c worth

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

[Doggie Howser]

I guess you must be mouth agape at the reported "volume" levels on recent Onkyo discussions.

 

To be honest, I too was surprised at having to dial up the levels on the Onkyo significantly higher than in my Yamaha, but the truth is they are still at pretty much the same levels as before. In your set up, with more efficient amps and speakers, who knows, the absolute levels may even be higher than on mine :)

[petetherock]

You are right doggie, I tried turning it up to -15db during a friend's visit, I had to stay outside the room!

 

So I can't quite bring myself to try single digit volumes ;)

 

How loud on the SPL meter is your setup?

[Doggie Howser]

Nvr really tested the SPL during a show. Dumped the Radio Shack meter after I got the calibration done and it's been making rounds at friends' and colleagues' places. Since then been using the YPAO/AutoEQ so hardly every use it. When I get it back, I might give it a check

 

 

[Phil1624705739]

Just try to avoid hitting above 90dB on your SPL.

 

Phil

[petetherock]

You know when the SVS goes off, the SPL meter is also off the charts, even when the ambient settings are around 70db.

What do you get on the SPL fo conversation and explosions Phil?

 

Just try to avoid hitting above 90dB on your SPL.

 

Phil

[Phil1624705739]

You know when the SVS goes off, the SPL meter is also off the charts, even when the ambient settings are around 70db.

What do you get on the SPL fo conversation and explosions Phil?

 

 

Sudden peak is alright for 90dB+. If you set your SPL to register reference level volume for explosion then your vocal will be too soft.

 

I normally listen at slightly above reference around 80dB plus.

 

Phil

 

[Jag]

Do note that frequency is also part of the max spl equation. We can go deaf easily with 120dB midrange frequencies, but not with 120dB at infrasonics or deep bass.

 

 

Please note also that the volume number on the amp alone is not an accurate description of everyone's system...... and variations can be significant due to speaker sensitivity, room size, distance from speaker, EQ-ing, positioning....etc.

 

That "-xx dB" on the amp does not describe amplification; it describes attenuation from max amplifcation that the amplifier can dish out.

 

 

[Jag]

Sudden peak is alright for 90dB+. If you set your SPL to register reference level volume for explosion then your vocal will be too soft.

 

I normally listen at slightly above reference around 80dB plus.

 

Phil

 

Phil

 

SPL meter at C-weighting of cos will set the meter off the charts for the very reason why its called C-weighting.

 

If you want to check for hearing loss damage, the spl meter must be set to A-weighting, then the chart below is valid.

 

 

Not to discredit anyone's post, but the charts are based on A-weighting measurements. Please note on the accuracy and completeness of the information presented.....

 

My system is calibrated at refernce, but I usually listen at -10 to -15dB below reference. A larger room would probably be better at -5 to -10dB below reference. But hearing is important to enjoying our hobby, so as long as we don't hit 85dB continuously for more than an hour, our hearing will be safe based on the chart.

[Phil1624705739]

SPL meter at C-weighting of cos will set the meter off the charts for the very reason why its called C-weighting.

 

If you want to check for hearing loss damage, the spl meter must be set to A-weighting, then the chart below is valid.

 

 

Not to discredit anyone's post, but the charts are based on A-weighting measurements. Please note on the accuracy and completeness of the information presented.....

 

The expert has spoken!

 

Jag, can chip in your opinion on Stewart screens here please?

 

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=47887.0

 

Phil

[Phil1624705739]

Actually, how I set my volume is base on the clarity of the vocal. I jack up the output till I "feel" the loudness is just about right. No SPL involved.

 

Phil

[petetherock]

Thanks for the input Jag

Can I ask what is your SPL reading for voice in your HT room?

I have a small room, so perhaps my settings are different and yes definitely that XXdb on the dial is hardly uniform unless all of us are using the same amp

Cheers

 

P

 

SPL meter at C-weighting of cos will set the meter off the charts for the very reason why its called C-weighting.

 

If you want to check for hearing loss damage, the spl meter must be set to A-weighting, then the chart below is valid.

 

 

Not to discredit anyone's post, but the charts are based on A-weighting measurements. Please note on the accuracy and completeness of the information presented.....

 

My system is calibrated at refernce, but I usually listen at -10 to -15dB below reference. A larger room would probably be better at -5 to -10dB below reference. But hearing is important to enjoying our hobby, so as long as we don't hit 85dB continuously for more than an hour, our hearing will be safe based on the chart.

[Jag]

On average, the spl reading for voice is just under 80dBA.

 

I have a small room, so perhaps my settings are different and yes definitely that XXdb on the dial is hardly uniform unless all of us are using the same amp

 

True. Not just amp, but exact same setup down to the speakers, room shape, furniture, flooring, walls.....

 

 

This topic is very important so I decided to make sure that the info presented is accurate. Its very easy to get carried away with the volume, but those using external power amps must be careful. The higher quality amplification (vs the built-in av amps) means that the "perceived volume" can be significantly louder than we think due to the lower distortion and cleaner sound of the external amps.

[petetherock]

Just listened to a program on Channel U on tinnitus - ringing in the ear, what a coincidence.

 

Everyone take care and enjoy

Cheers

 

PS: it would be nice to know what others are using as their SPL settings at voice levels

[FookLai]

That is me and my gf  ;D Even my gf also used to that level of sound, dont mention about me ;D ;D ;D The auto calibration done by Onkyo is register at about 70db measured by C Weighting. So for those who play -5db from Onkyo, their listening volume is around 65db only for normal scenes, not those heavy sounding scene which I think the volume can go up significantly.

 

For my case, I re-calibrate the sound level to 75db after the auto setup, but because my listening volume is between -15 to -10, so it is about the same as those who play -5 at auto calibrated level. Lastly, Jason play 82db at his room but I guess is because his room accoustic is really nicely done, both me and my gf do not felt it is very very loud as compare to our setup. Hence I also agree room mode, EQ stuffs all play a part in this...

 

Fook Lai

 

You are right doggie, I tried turning it up to -15db during a friend's visit, I had to stay outside the room!

 

So I can't quite bring myself to try single digit volumes ;)

 

How loud on the SPL meter is your setup?

[petetherock]

Hey Fl

Given that at -25db it was more than 85db, I think at -15db that night, you must have exceeded the noise level on a runway. Probably the quiet room and the clean ampification made you feel it was softer than it was?

As jag said, room dynamics and type of amps make a difference, but still, I wouldn't want you to loss your hearing...

 

[dbchoong]

Sometimes in public areas - I notice some kids wearing headphone/earphones blasting away - so loud that I can actually hear the song/music pretty well from as far as 2 or 3 meters away! It simply astonishes me how these kids can actually stand it. :o

[koma]

yup rm acoustics play a large part. nicely done at 80db u get quite used to it

n u dun like to tone dwn liao ;)

 

 

That is me and my gf  ;D Even my gf also used to that level of sound, dont mention about me ;D ;D ;D The auto calibration done by Onkyo is register at about 70db measured by C Weighting. So for those who play -5db from Onkyo, their listening volume is around 65db only for normal scenes, not those heavy sounding scene which I think the volume can go up significantly.

 

For my case, I re-calibrate the sound level to 75db after the auto setup, but because my listening volume is between -15 to -10, so it is about the same as those who play -5 at auto calibrated level. Lastly, Jason play 82db at his room but I guess is because his room accoustic is really nicely done, both me and my gf do not felt it is very very loud as compare to our setup. Hence I also agree room mode, EQ stuffs all play a part in this...

 

Fook Lai

 

[Jason Yeo]

The most important thing to me on HT(Entertainment) is.... Enjoy while I can ;D As Jag always like to say "different strokes for different ppl". In my case , listen to all the details and get ridiculous feel is most entertaing . ;D ;D ;D :P Luckily so far no one complain the demo is too loud(maybe they don dare to voice out) ::)

[warmasterhorus11]

It is not Loud...it is amazing!!  ;D

 

Clarity is important, bring the movie out to the fullest. no cinema can beat the sound u hv re-created in your HT room! simply awesome! feeling is totally different.

 

:)

 

 

[dmateo]

I play at midnight, does not need to crank up volume nor can I as it's in the living room and kids are sleeping.

Guess that how you get your ears train to listen to all the dimension and detail of the sounds.

 

The problem is, you also get to hear and notice all the weakness and defect. I still at this very moment prefer my ancient AIWA deck to my HT setup as far as CD listening is in concerns... ;D

[petetherock]

Just wondering how many brothers here play at true reference levels?

Cranked my system up to -11db for a brother visiting last night, so we could experience sound levels at 'true' as is levels and whew, that was loud...

Anyone else does that ona regular basis?

[koma]

i play at reference levels even late at nite no harm to my ears yet :P

but i believe the more n appropriate rm acoustics u put in the more

u can crank up to reference levels without harmin ur ears but also get to

hear the details more juz my 2 cents worth. like recently added a full rm carpet

n floated my pb12+/2 using auralex mopads the bass has less punch now but

its "cleaner" n "clearer" frm what i had bfore

 

 

 

Just wondering how many brothers here play at true reference levels?

Cranked my system up to -11db for a brother visiting last night, so we could experience sound levels at 'true' as is levels and whew, that was loud...

Anyone else does that ona regular basis?

[fabryuk]

Hearing loss is due to chronic exposure to loud noise-  in medical term is called prebycussis.  U tend to lose the ability to hear high freq noice when u get older-  most commonest cause of deafness in the elderly. 

 

I like loud HT to enjoy the HT, but definitely would not want to damage my ear in the future.  I do not want to be the first one to walk into adelphi with a hearing aid in order to enjoy music/HT

 

Popularity of ipod would no doubt increase the incidence of presbycussis

[petetherock]

A timely warning to preserve our hearing....

 

Ayumi has lost her hearing in one ear....

 

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Showbiz/Story/A1Story20080107-43965.html

 

Japan's pop princess 'Ayu' half deaf? 

 

TOKYO - JAPANESE pop princess Ayumi Hamasaki has revealed she has gone deaf in her left ear, but has vowed to continue her career and go ahead with an upcoming tour of Asia.

 

The 29-year old, who is Japan's top-selling singer with 28 number-one hits and nearly 50 million albums sold, wrote on her blog that her left ear 'doesn't work anymore' and that it was inoperable.

 

She has known of her condition since going in for an ear check last year, according to her website.

 

 

 

 

Hamasaki, better known as 'Ayu' with a large fanbase in Asia, is believed to be suffering tinnitus, which involves a ringing in the ear that can be caused by constant exposure to sound.

 

Tinnitus is the same condition that afflicted Ludwig van Beethoven, the famously deaf German composer.

 

'Nevertheless, I would like to continue as a singer. That's why I would like to continue singing until I reach the limit with my remaining right ear,' she said on the members-only fansite, as quoted by Japanese media.

 

'I won't stop. I won't make excuses. As a professional, I would like to deliver the best performance for everyone,' she wrote over the weekend.

 

Her agency declined comment on her hearing, other than to say that she would go ahead with her second tour of Asia starting in April.

 

'She will continue her activity as scheduled,' said a spokesman for the agency, Avex.

 

Hamasaki released her ninth album, 'Guilty', on Jan 1. She is due to launch a tour on April 5 to mark her 10th anniversary as a performer.

 

'It makes me cry to think that even if she's the only one who knows that she can't hear with her left ear, she has continued to sing and showed us her smiling face. That's what I love about Ayumi Hamasaki,' wrote a fan on a webpage.

 

Hamasaki performed last month on the widely watched annual New Year's Eve television song contest broadcast by public network NHK. -- AFP