Quest88 Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 Hi all, I am in the market for an AVR preferably around $2k range but can stretch to $3k or so. The features I need and don't need are: 1. Most important is musicality of pure stereo as I listen 95% stereo: 5% movies. I know this is tough. 2. Preferable to have YPAO or auto-eq function 3. Preferable to have bi-amp capability 4. Do not need HDMI 5. Do not need video passthru/upscaling I guess while my needs are simple, I prefer to have auto-eq, which makes it tricky, and quite tough for me to go separates route (also not sure on my budget). Currently I have these 3 in my sights to audition when I have the time: 1. CA 640R (only cos of 1AngMoh's review really, although no auto-eq. if i go this route, I may have to use eq on source) 2. Marantz SR8001 (bi-amp is a plus here, but not a necessity) 3. Yamaha 2700 (auto-eq on sub also) Anyone have any other suggestions? I am not urgent and can wait for the upcoming Denons, but would be nice if I can get something sooner rather than later. :)
dbchoong Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 If 95% stereo, why not look for a stereo setup instead of an AVR setup? You can still play your 5% movies in stereo (can still sound very good).
Quest88 Posted March 9, 2007 Author Posted March 9, 2007 If 95% stereo, why not look for a stereo setup instead of an AVR setup? You can still play your 5% movies in stereo (can still sound very good). feel very waste cos i bought SVS PC-Ultra and JMLab Cobalt centre speaker previously. If get rid of them also won't get much back. Also, I always thought movies should always be played back in their discrete 5.1+ channels for best effect. Lastly, never heard of stereo integrated amps that have auto-eq too!
tsammyc Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 Have you listened to Dolby PLIIx Music? I find it better than stereo on music and it makes great use of your SVS and centre speaker. I have listened to quite a few mid/high end stereo setups (with tubes, turntables various cost up to $100,000) and some are excellent, but they require some form of room treatment, bass traps, foam etc etc etc. In your typical living room, the stuff bouncing off the walls and furniture are likely to turn the perfect sound emanating from your speakers into a morass of reflected sound with strangely enhanced frequencies by the time it hits your ears. EQ fixes quite a bit of that if you don't want to turn your living room into Batman's cave.
Quest88 Posted March 9, 2007 Author Posted March 9, 2007 Have you listened to Dolby PLIIx Music? I find it better than stereo on music and it makes great use of your SVS and centre speaker. I guess my experience is quite different. Not comparing those high end equipment, but just my personal experience in the few rooms I have moved about in, and switching from stereo to PLIIx with the same speakers with different AVRs. While PLIIx music is quite balanced in general and doesn't sound bad, it is still unable to give me perception in height and depth that stereo seems to be able to do so effortlessly. Soundstage-wise it is quite comparable though. I have been living without any real room treatment all this time, and still find this to be true for me so far. Typically I just use curtains and carpet to cut down some boom. But of course, auto-eq does help (note my other thread in audio section about 100hz boom and 50-60hz dip), hence why I am looking for an AVR with this function!
synthesis1624705793 Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 I believe the auto calibration cannot do much if the room/speaker placement is flawed at the first place. You know the potential of your speaker but somehow it doesn't work with your current setting. For experiment, what if you try to plug your speaker port. I believe this will greatly reduce the 100Hz boom. Then use the subwoofer for music to raise the 50-60Hz dip. Try also to cut your sub/LFE crossover at different freq and see if it helps.
tsammyc Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 While PLIIx music is quite balanced in general and doesn't sound bad, it is still unable to give me perception in height and depth that stereo seems to be able to do so effortlessly. Soundstage-wise it is quite comparable though. I have been living without any real room treatment all this time, and still find this to be true for me so far. Typically I just use curtains and carpet to cut down some boom. But of course, auto-eq does help (note my other thread in audio section about 100hz boom and 50-60hz dip), hence why I am looking for an AVR with this function! Perhaps your room has fewer reflections (I'm all marble and glass, no curtains, no carpet) and your speaker quality better than mine (KEFs). My setup really needs equalisation even for the higher frequencies. Possibly that is why PLIIx with full utilisation of equalisation and sound steering sounds better for me. When you talk about good stereo listening, are you talking about equalised stereo through an AVR or raw CD to speaker transfer i.e., the "pure direct" modes? For me, equalised stereo isn't too bad (still prefer PLIIx), but pure direct is much worse so in some ways I can't really enjoy the supposed quality of my 2700's amps. Wish I had Jason Yeo's "studio" to run pure direct....
Quest88 Posted March 10, 2007 Author Posted March 10, 2007 thanks synthesis. may try that but mine are front ported. will probably make little diff. tsammyc: talking about direct mode. :) well, i guess little things like carpet does help alot. listening without carpet to me is sheer agony in my present room.
MC_Hammer Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 Hi all, I am in the market for an AVR preferably around $2k range but can stretch to $3k or so. The features I need and don't need are: 1. Most important is musicality of pure stereo as I listen 95% stereo: 5% movies. I know this is tough. 2. Preferable to have YPAO or auto-eq function 3. Preferable to have bi-amp capability 4. Do not need HDMI 5. Do not need video passthru/upscaling I guess while my needs are simple, I prefer to have auto-eq, which makes it tricky, and quite tough for me to go separates route (also not sure on my budget). Currently I have these 3 in my sights to audition when I have the time: 1. CA 640R (only cos of 1AngMoh's review really, although no auto-eq. if i go this route, I may have to use eq on source) 2. Marantz SR8001 (bi-amp is a plus here, but not a necessity) 3. Yamaha 2700 (auto-eq on sub also) Anyone have any other suggestions? I am not urgent and can wait for the upcoming Denons, but would be nice if I can get something sooner rather than later. :) Why Pioneer AVR not in your Considerations ? In my opinion ...The Pioneer's MCACC...Multi Channel Acosutic Calibartion Sytem is so useful n user friendly http://www.pioneer.com.sg/storefront/static/MCACC/index.html Most of the High range Pioneers can hook a power amp for better Stereo performance or you can hook up a separate Set of Hifi spks for stereo to Front Speakers B $2k...go for The FlagShip AX10AiG if is is still available...No regrets 8)
macnux Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 In most AVR on Direct/Pure stereo mode doubt the auto eq settings applies. You should consider MC Hammer's suggestion - cheaper AVR for yr 5% pleasure and add a stereo power amp for stereo to enhance yr other 95% pleasure.
petetherock Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 Hi Quest I have a slight different opinion on the amp choice. If you buy a budget model and add a power amp, it won't sound as good cos the pre-amp section of the budget amps just don't cut it sonically. Rather I would say buy the best AV amp for an all-in one solution, Or Get a budget model and a seperate pure stereo amp system. I really liked the SR 8001 auto-eq, (although I have no experience with the rest), it did wonders. I think having the HDMI and auto-eq are nice, and you don't need a lot of power in your room, esp with the sub. Your speakers were pretty sensitive too. Ain't it fun to be shopping again...;) Catch up with you soon for shopping...
synthesis1624705793 Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 thanks synthesis. may try that but mine are front ported. will probably make little diff. ... It will make a difference. Basically you change the speaker from ported design to more or less sealed design. The bass will roll off gently rather than peaking at certain bass freq then abruptly diminish.
petetherock Posted March 13, 2007 Posted March 13, 2007 Bro 2k for their top model? Do share where you can get this? Thanks P $2k...go for The FlagShip AX10AiG if is is still available...No regrets 8)
Quest88 Posted March 13, 2007 Author Posted March 13, 2007 thanks for all the suggestions again. i think yeah, obviously there isn't a pure direct mode when using auto-eq as there is equalisation, but that's ok. at least close enough to the source already. i think the easiest way for me to do this is to just to to adelphi and shop around again, and ask for recommendations. :) if none available means i just got to wait a little longer. overall i won't get a budget AVR + power amp cos of what pete said. i do believe in the source quite abit so i won't want to compromise with a bad pre-amp section. i am not entirely convinced that a $1k AVR + $1k power amp will beat a $2k AVR in stereo. the only good thing about the former setup is that i can introduce another pre-amp/DAC (e.g. quite like the benchmark DAC) to the same power amp, feeding the same front speakers. however, i don't know of any stereo pre-amp/DAC that has auto-eq either, so that defeats the purpose of me moving that direction. also, i'm not fussy to the point where a pure stereo setup is necessary. i accept the limitations, but rather want the convenience. having to do hardware switching means trouble for me when i want to watch a movie - setting up screen/projector is bad enough! i also switch soundcards on my HTPC for movies.. hence that's why i just set a budget and am just shopping for something that fits my purpose in an AVR. will add the pioneer to my audition choices, if it does indeed fit the budget. the MCACC looks impressive.
MC_Hammer Posted March 13, 2007 Posted March 13, 2007 Bro 2k for their top model? Do share where you can get this? Thanks P Seng Heng Adelphi was clearing the AX10AiG at $2.2K after the hifi show....think now no more..My friend bought their last AX5 AiG display set Some one is selling a brand new AX10 AiG at $3.3 K...a bit too high but then it is a discontinued model...this AX10 beats watever New Pioneer Flagship model hands down apparently ! http://www.echoloft.com/cgi-bin/buysell/YaBB.cgi?board=ht&action=display&num=1173709215
MC_Hammer Posted March 13, 2007 Posted March 13, 2007 thanks for all the suggestions again. also, i'm not fussy to the point where a pure stereo setup is necessary. i accept the limitations, but rather want the convenience. having to do hardware switching means trouble for me when i want to watch a movie - setting up screen/projector is bad enough! i also switch soundcards on my HTPC for movies.. hence that's why i just set a budget and am just shopping for something that fits my purpose in an AVR. will add the pioneer to my audition choices, if it does indeed fit the budget. the MCACC looks impressive. AX10 AiG with a dedicated CD player sounds really good..if a second hand Ax10 AiG appears in the mkt , anything below #2k...even $1999...just close your eyes n BUY ! 8) AX10Ai G .....Advanced MCACC (Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration) Auto (Mic included) (9-band EQ) Manual (9-band EQ) Acoustic Status Display on PC Callibration Disc X-Curve Compensation AX5 AiG........Advanced MCACC (Multi-channel Acoustic Calibration System) setup with 5-band EQ (Mic included) The New AX4ASi-S....Pioneer-Exclusive Innovations Phase Control Standing Wave Control (an MCACC function) Advanced MCACC (Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration System) setup with 9-band EQ (mic. included) AIR Studios sound tuning Advanced Direct Energy Power Amplifier
sAtAn_83 Posted March 14, 2007 Posted March 14, 2007 i recently just visit my frend shop in adelphi. he seems to get a couple of pioneer ax5 selling price around 1350 for a brand new.he told mi nobody except he has it. nowadays i always advertise for him in this forum becos he always give me such good price for things that i need.hahahaa... hope he c this.
Quest88 Posted March 15, 2007 Author Posted March 15, 2007 satan you keep saying your friend in many threads but never mention the shop. so will he give us preferential pricing also? ;) MC_Hammer, thanks for the suggestion. Will go audition first before making up my mind since I've never heard any Pioneer AVR before. Got to dig up reviews on all my other choices too.
petetherock Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 Hey Q IMO Pioneers are a bit clinical, so watch it when you partner with your JMs :) It wil great for movies, but I know you want good stereo
1AngMoh Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 Hey Q IMO Pioneers are a bit clinical, so watch it when you partner with your JMs :) It wil great for movies, but I know you want good stereo I would agree. IMHO Pioneer AVR's are strong on features (i like their iLink support) and functionality, do ok for movies, but fall short in musicality.
media2368 Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 If you still keeping your current amplifier and connect to the PRE-OUT of any AVR, then the features will be more important since the Music will still output from your existing amp. :)
sAtAn_83 Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 satan you keep saying your friend in many threads but never mention the shop. so will he give us preferential pricing also? ;) MC_Hammer, thanks for the suggestion. Will go audition first before making up my mind since I've never heard any Pioneer AVR before. Got to dig up reviews on all my other choices too. anson audio at the adelphi #01-19...if u need any price for products i can check for u loh...just pm mi will do.i hope he c all my hardwork advertising for him...... muz demand more discount from him when buying the speaker.......hahahahahaha
c7221624705751 Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 let's just say there is a BIG difference between ax10i and anything below. whatever impression u have from the lower pio model is not representative to ax10 at all. btw someone is selling one in echoloft. I dun know the seller but I think his asking price is not the best price right now.
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